Playoffs Mode Siakam

[Rustyman]

The theory that Masai is a bad GM because he traded Siakam or traded him too late is a misreading of events.

The Raptors made a decision some time last year that Scottie Barnes was their future and they were afraid he may opt out after his rookie contract. Thus, everyone who was not perceived as fitting with Barnes was targeted to be moved. Siakam and OBJ were both still looking for a deal with the Raptors at that time but once the decision was made to side with Barnes, both were on the block.

The results of the previous season would have also contributed to breaking down the team and not paying max or near max salaries to players who were All Stars but not All NBA quality and a team that wasn't a true contender.

However, I feel that Barnes does not have All NBA potential and would be lucky to reach the level of Siakam so decisions driven by belief in a specific player has resulted in the Raptors being mediocre for the next few years.

The only other criticism I have of the Raptors front office is that once the decision was made to go all in on Barnes, they would have gotten the best price for both players at the beginning of the season rather than in the middle.

[Jadoogar]

The Raptors made a decision some time last year that Scottie Barnes was their future and they were afraid he may opt out after his rookie contract.

No major rookie has ever taken the qualifying offer in history. Why would the raptors be worried about that happening?

[Rustyman]

The Raptors made a decision some time last year that Scottie Barnes was their future and they were afraid he may opt out after his rookie contract.

No major rookie has ever taken the qualifying offer in history. Why would the raptors be worried about that happening?

Barnes may take the offer but the feel I get is that he is not committed to the Raptors or Canada. The Raptors not only wanted to be all-in on Barnes, they wanted to show him that they were all in and while I am sure he will sign the extension, I have strong doubts that he will finish that extension with the Raptors.

Now that is just my feelings based on the noise coming out of the Raptors camp but I am not convinced by Barnes at the Raptors, either his loyalty (if you have to get the players you don't get along with traded) or his ability. I don't see a frequent All NBA player in him.

[Wargreymon]

I think the Raps organization needs to stop trading with Indy. Remember the Jermaine trade in 2009? Twin Towers North with CB4? How did that turn out? Pacers got Roy Hibbert who was an essential piece on those ECF Pacers team vs Heat.

If Indy calls, just sent them straight to voice mail Masai.

[Edrees]

Just saw this on TNT. Amazing for Siakam and the Pacers.

There are still a bunch of raptor fans who think the Siakam trade was good for us. We gave away an all nba talent for mid to low picks in a crappy draft and Bruce Brown lol.

Lakers offered Dlo who was benched and Vandy who was hurt at the time but you guys passed.

And a first or two in the deal I believe

[bledredwine]

What you want to do is trade your best players in the middle of decent contracts as soon as they are exactly at their prime. And you just keep doing that over and over so you can continue to win only 48 games.

That's what I was saying ASAP about Lavine, but none of the Bulls fans or FO wanted that.

We're in a stellar position now. Yes, that's sarcasm.

Learn from our mistakes.

"best players"

He was an anllstar.

Obviously I wanted to trade him because I’ve never considered him great and knew we we could have gotten great value.

But many people, including a lot of this board, did consider him great.

The premise still stands and was why I made my post.

[Tor_Raps]

Just saw this on TNT. Amazing for Siakam and the Pacers.

There are still a bunch of raptor fans who think the Siakam trade was good for us. We gave away an all nba talent for mid to low picks in a crappy draft and Bruce Brown lol.

Lakers offered Dlo who was benched and Vandy who was hurt at the time but you guys passed.

And a first or two in the deal I believe

You guys didn't have more than 1 pick to trade and Dlo's value before the trade deadline has low as hell. Raptors weren't trying to win now and needed rebuilding pieces but also weren't looking to rebuild until 2028 when your pick would be conveyed lol.

[LLJ]

The theory that Masai is a bad GM because he traded Siakam or traded him too late is a misreading of events.

The Raptors made a decision some time last year that Scottie Barnes was their future and they were afraid he may opt out after his rookie contract. Thus, everyone who was not perceived as fitting with Barnes was targeted to be moved. Siakam and OBJ were both still looking for a deal with the Raptors at that time but once the decision was made to side with Barnes, both were on the block.

The results of the previous season would have also contributed to breaking down the team and not paying max or near max salaries to players who were All Stars but not All NBA quality and a team that wasn't a true contender.

However, I feel that Barnes does not have All NBA potential and would be lucky to reach the level of Siakam so decisions driven by belief in a specific player has resulted in the Raptors being mediocre for the next few years.

The only other criticism I have of the Raptors front office is that once the decision was made to go all in on Barnes, they would have gotten the best price for both players at the beginning of the season rather than in the middle.

This thread is in reaction to a series that is still ongoing. The Raps gave the keys to Siakam from 2020-2023 with mediocre results, results that are realistically not out of reach for Barnes to duplicate down the line as a focal point.

Siakam is most definitely a star. But let's not pretend he hasn't had his ups and downs when given the keys to be the focal point of a team.

He's on a team now where he gets to play off someone (or two), which is his ideal role, as it was in 2019.

The Raps' issues was manyfold. They have had talented players, but they were a bad mix and there were a bunch of guys wanting to be more than they actually were. As these playoffs have shown, their ideal roles are exactly as many perceived them to be. Siakam is a great 2nd option, and OG is a great 3+D guy. Neither is an ideal guy to be "built around" even though they wanted to be that guy. Granted, the jury is out on Barnes but when guys are demanding a bigger role and aren't playing well together, they forced the team's hand to cut bait for a lower return.

[ChumboChappati]

He is not that good. Calm down. Only reason he is thriving is because Giannis is not playing. Put Giannis on him and he will not even score 20.

[Rustyman]

This thread is in reaction to a series that is still ongoing. The Raps gave the keys to Siakam from 2020-2023 with mediocre results, results that are realistically not out of reach for Barnes to duplicate down the line as a focal point.

Siakam is most definitely a star. But let's not pretend he hasn't had his ups and downs when given the keys to be the focal point of a team.

He's on a team now where he gets to play off someone (or two), which is his ideal role, as it was in 2019.

The Raps' issues was manyfold. They have had talented players, but they were a bad mix and there were a bunch of guys wanting to be more than they actually were. As these playoffs have shown, their ideal roles are exactly as many perceived them to be. Siakam is a great 2nd option, and OG is a great 3+D guy. Neither is an ideal guy to be "built around" even though they wanted to be that guy. Granted, the jury is out on Barnes but when guys are demanding a bigger role and aren't playing well together, they forced the team's hand to cut bait for a lower return.

This is the problem that I think many teams face and how they handle it determines their future success. The Raptors had a 1b/2a and a 3a in Siakam and OG. After Barnes won the ROY his value was at an all time high. At that stage, the Raptors were in a position to trade Barnes plus change for a 1a. Instead, they thought they could build a contender on the cheap by keeping Barnes and trading two guys who were coming up for big contracts.

Now I am not declaring that they definitively made the wrong decision as the jury is still out on that but the safer decision would have been to package Barnes for a 1a and the Raptors could have contended for the next 5-7 years. After the 21-22 season, it was clear that a rift had developed amongst the Raptors players and the organization had to make a choice. They took too long to make that choice and I have don't believe they made the right choice. I can be proved wrong but I don't believe I will be.

My prediction is that the Raptors will be in purgatory for the next 3-5 years, making the playoffs in the 6-8 range. I honestly believe that they either have to get incredibly lucky in the 2025 draft to pick no.1 or 2 or they have to trade Barnes before being able to really contend.

[Johnny Bball]

That's what I was saying ASAP about Lavine, but none of the Bulls fans or FO wanted that.

We're in a stellar position now. Yes, that's sarcasm.

Learn from our mistakes.

"best players"

He was an anllstar.

Obviously I wanted to trade him because I’ve never considered him great and knew we we could have gotten great value.

But many people, including a lot of this board, did consider him great.

The premise still stands and was why I made my post.

The premise is entirely stupid and it was sarcasm. Continually trading your best players every time one hits his prime is horrible, which was the premise.

And Lavine's current contract is his problem and its what is making him hard to trade, and that wasn't going to change.

[LoveMyRaps]

Sigh...we got robbed by the Pacers didn't we?

All Hail the great Masai-ah Ujiri.

If I'm not mistaken, Ujiri is the highest paid front office executive in the NBA. He's been taking straight L's ever since the Raptors won their chip.

Ya drafting Scottie Barnes - what an L

Ya acquiring RJ & IQ - what an L

Ls after Ls.

[LoveMyRaps]

He is not that good. Calm down. Only reason he is thriving is because Giannis is not playing. Put Giannis on him and he will not even score 20.

Watch on YouTube

[bledredwine]

"best players"

He was an anllstar.

Obviously I wanted to trade him because I’ve never considered him great and knew we we could have gotten great value.

But many people, including a lot of this board, did consider him great.

The premise still stands and was why I made my post.

The premise is entirely stupid and it was sarcasm. Continually trading your best players every time one hits his prime is horrible, which was the premise.

And Lavine's current contract is his problem and its what is making him hard to trade, and that wasn't going to change.

The only stupid thing here is every single one of your pointless replies.

You always trade a player who could give you great value when your team has no future.

And apparently the sarcasm flew over your head. The point was we are NOT in a good position because we didn’t trade Lavine at peak value.

Go ahead and try to tell me that wouldn’t have helped? Exactly.

[Los_29]

He was an anllstar.

Obviously I wanted to trade him because I’ve never considered him great and knew we we could have gotten great value.

But many people, including a lot of this board, did consider him great.

The premise still stands and was why I made my post.

The premise is entirely stupid and it was sarcasm. Continually trading your best players every time one hits his prime is horrible, which was the premise.

And Lavine's current contract is his problem and its what is making him hard to trade, and that wasn't going to change.

The only stupid thing here is every single one of your pointless replies.

You always trade a player who could give you great value when your team has no future.

And apparently the sarcasm flew over your head. The point was we are NOT in a good position because we didn’t trade Lavine at peak value.

Go ahead and try to tell me that wouldn’t have helped? Exactly.

If you never considered him great then why do you think NBA Executives would? The reality is not much was offered last year. So there was never great value to be had. Many also believed the team had a bright future less than two years ago as Scottie was coming off a ROTY season.

[bledredwine]

The premise is entirely stupid and it was sarcasm. Continually trading your best players every time one hits his prime is horrible, which was the premise.

And Lavine's current contract is his problem and its what is making him hard to trade, and that wasn't going to change.

The only stupid thing here is every single one of your pointless replies.

You always trade a player who could give you great value when your team has no future.

And apparently the sarcasm flew over your head. The point was we are NOT in a good position because we didn’t trade Lavine at peak value.

Go ahead and try to tell me that wouldn’t have helped? Exactly.

If you never considered him great then why do you think NBA Executives would? The reality is not much was offered last year. So there was never great value to be had. Many also believed the team had a bright future less than two years ago as Scottie was coming off a ROTY season.

That's simply false. If you're telling me that Siakam's value was same and especially higher than peak Lavine, as pertaining to this thread, you're mistaken.

He was putting up 27, 5 and 5 while shooting over .500 and .419 from 3. Come on now.
Everyone was comparing him with Mitchell, Murray and that whole crew when said players were also peaking.

But I knew that he would decline and that we didn't have a shot at winning. I was right.

This is actually what bothers me about realm. They live too much in the moment.
X player is great, X player sucks, depending on the day. There's no objectivity looking back.

The difference between you, Johnny and I is that I don't overrate players on my own team.
I knew what Zach was. I knew what Joakim Noah was. They were great, but not franchise player great,
as some liked to pretend- 3rd options on a championship team at best.

[SelfishPlayer]

The premise is entirely stupid and it was sarcasm. Continually trading your best players every time one hits his prime is horrible, which was the premise.

And Lavine's current contract is his problem and its what is making him hard to trade, and that wasn't going to change.

The only stupid thing here is every single one of your pointless replies.

You always trade a player who could give you great value when your team has no future.

And apparently the sarcasm flew over your head. The point was we are NOT in a good position because we didn’t trade Lavine at peak value.

Go ahead and try to tell me that wouldn’t have helped? Exactly.

If you never considered him great then why do you think NBA Executives would? The reality is not much was offered last year. So there was never great value to be had. Many also believed the team had a bright future less than two years ago as Scottie was coming off a ROTY season.

Back then I was calling them a treadmill team AT BEST with absolutely no future. I was right, they blew it all up. My avatar has never changed...

[ItsDanger]

The premise is entirely stupid and it was sarcasm. Continually trading your best players every time one hits his prime is horrible, which was the premise.

And Lavine's current contract is his problem and its what is making him hard to trade, and that wasn't going to change.

The only stupid thing here is every single one of your pointless replies.

You always trade a player who could give you great value when your team has no future.

And apparently the sarcasm flew over your head. The point was we are NOT in a good position because we didn’t trade Lavine at peak value.

Go ahead and try to tell me that wouldn’t have helped? Exactly.

If you never considered him great then why do you think NBA Executives would? The reality is not much was offered last year. So there was never great value to be had. Many also believed the team had a bright future less than two years ago as Scottie was coming off a ROTY season.

Even when the evidence is staring you in the face, denial remains the option. Many also believed that team as constructed was going nowhere. And they were right. Time to let it go.

[Johnny Bball]

The only stupid thing here is every single one of your pointless replies.

You always trade a player who could give you great value when your team has no future.

And apparently the sarcasm flew over your head. The point was we are NOT in a good position because we didn’t trade Lavine at peak value.

Go ahead and try to tell me that wouldn’t have helped? Exactly.

If you never considered him great then why do you think NBA Executives would? The reality is not much was offered last year. So there was never great value to be had. Many also believed the team had a bright future less than two years ago as Scottie was coming off a ROTY season.

Even when the evidence is staring you in the face, denial remains the option. Many also believed that team as constructed was going nowhere. And they were right. Time to let it go.

What are YOU talking about. You would have tanked that team and blown it up every year for a decade including the championship.

You're a broken clock and you think you are a genius.

[ItsDanger]

If you never considered him great then why do you think NBA Executives would? The reality is not much was offered last year. So there was never great value to be had. Many also believed the team had a bright future less than two years ago as Scottie was coming off a ROTY season.

Even when the evidence is staring you in the face, denial remains the option. Many also believed that team as constructed was going nowhere. And they were right. Time to let it go.

What are YOU talking about. You would have tanked that team and blown it up every year for a decade including the championship.

You're a broken clock and you think you are a genius.

There is something to be said about skill overlap and redundancy on any roster. Something for you to consider before insulting anyone.