Is Jokic better than Lebron ever was ? Has he already peaked higher ? How long before he surpasses him all time?

[EmpireFalls]

The casual GB erasure of LeBron’s peak actually saddens me, it truly does.

[zimpy27]

Jokic is close.

I think he ends up being top 5 all time. Don't think he passes LeBron as the GOAT, though it's possible.

[Heej]

Guess what, Murray and MPJ were injured a lot. But Jokic stayed.
LeBron chose his teammates, colluded with the 2nd and 4th players ranked by efficiency rating the previous season, played for maybe the best coach (Spo) for an amazing organization (Heat). But then chose to leave. So everything is on him. No excuses.

Oh so now we're moving the goalposts, good one casual. Btw genius, if LeBron stayed the heat would've lost both Bosh and Wade with no avenue to retool due to cap space constraints. Jokic is lucky he got drafted to a class organization that developed players properly. Also Spo was a bum coach his first year and needed to go learn how to coach an offense from a goddamn college football coach in the 2011 off-season LMFAO. Y'all really don't Know ball if these are the takes you're falling for when Jokic has the best roster and arguable best coaching staff in the league.

Same casuals who fell for the propaganda that Jordan was the best player who will ever live when he dominated in a trash era and similarly had the best roster and coaching staff in the league. Call me when Jokic beats comp and had to do it without all these crutches the way LeBron took flawed 2012, 2013, and 2016 casts to the chip and then won one with average Vogel coaching in 2020

So now Jokic has the best roster and best coaching staff.

Wow.

Amazing how winning a title turns everyone involved with it into something they're not.

Jokic is feeding everyone in that organization.

If it makes you feel better I can tone it down and say he has one of the best supporting casts AND coaching staffs. Seems like a lot of you guys don't actually comprehend how difficult it is to win a title.

For instance, every single NBA Champion outside of 2 (75 Warriors and 94 Rockets) had multiple Hall of Famers on the team. And 80% of all champions were led by a HoF coach or a current one on track to make it. Including the 2 teams I listed earlier.

A lot of you guys are giving Jokic the lion's share of the credit for something the organization as a whole has been able to put together. Funny how people hold LeBron to the opposite standard and credit his teammates when he wins while blaming only him when he loses. Y'all really be snitching on yourselves as to who's really the GOAT when one guy gets scrutinized differently than anyone else

[The Hypnotoad]

If Lebron gets held to a 6 championship MJ standard then Jokic should be held to a 4.

[JN61]

2 More championships or 1 champ + mvp

[JN61]

If Lebron gets held to a 6 championship MJ standard then Jokic should be held to a 4.

But he is not by large crowd so jokic needs even less accolades to pass LeBron as far as I am concerned.

[JN61]

Oh so now we're moving the goalposts, good one casual. Btw genius, if LeBron stayed the heat would've lost both Bosh and Wade with no avenue to retool due to cap space constraints. Jokic is lucky he got drafted to a class organization that developed players properly. Also Spo was a bum coach his first year and needed to go learn how to coach an offense from a goddamn college football coach in the 2011 off-season LMFAO. Y'all really don't Know ball if these are the takes you're falling for when Jokic has the best roster and arguable best coaching staff in the league.

Same casuals who fell for the propaganda that Jordan was the best player who will ever live when he dominated in a trash era and similarly had the best roster and coaching staff in the league. Call me when Jokic beats comp and had to do it without all these crutches the way LeBron took flawed 2012, 2013, and 2016 casts to the chip and then won one with average Vogel coaching in 2020

I doubt that you can count but anyway I make a list

Those players was all in theirs prime

At cavs first stint
He played prime Iglauskas an all-star
Then prime larry hughes all-star an all-defence
Carlos Boozer was run and saved himself
Mo williams all-star
Antawan Jamisson all-star

At miami

Dwayne Wade all-nba, fmvp, all-star
Chris bosh all-naba etc etc
Ray Allen (actually not in his prime but won a ring )

at cavs second stint

Kyrie Irving all-nba
Kevin Love all-nba
Isaiah thomas all-nba 5th in mvp

At lakers

Brondon İngram
Julius Randle
Davis
Westbrook

Could you count it this, moron ? They are all in their primes or near theirs prime.

Maybe you cant, this need to has some proficency. 15 player all of them in their prime or one or two year away in their prime.

All of them except Ray allen was all-star nearby.

Could you say that for Jokic?

And Mike Malone not a good coach, Jokic make seems him as a good coach, like every player plays with him.

Lmfaoooo so you quoted a bunch of guys who didn't make the all Star team with LeBron and labeled them as all stars? Vs Jokic playing with an entire lineup of elite 2-way players and one of the best coaches in the league. Mike Malone has been a good coach for over a decade plus. Ask Kings fans how they felt about him during the Boogie Cousins era

LeBron is known to take away from other players to keep his numbers so we aren't exactly surprised here

[scrabbarista]

First question: Yes, last year Jokic peaked higher than LeBron.

Second question: Don't see it happening. It could, but it's extremely unlikely.

[Gregoire]

Joker more than likely already peaked higher than LeBron, but career.... I dont know, maybe.
At his best Joker is better basketball player. Its enough.

[Iwasawitness]

I think it deserves his own thread

Jokic is more efficient, more clutch, better teammate, doesn't get refs' calls ( he could have won in 2020 ), and he is better with his attitude.

I don't see where Lebron is better , except for media hype...

No, no and probably never.

Your thread is bad and you should feel bad.

How is this thread bad?

Are you pretending LeBron is untouchable? He's not that guy. Jokic has a great argument over him.

Jokic is that good.

I’m not pretending anything. Jokic has yet to reach the levels LeBron played at his best and is way behind on accolades. We can definitely revisit this in five years if Jokic manages to be even better than he is now, but at the moment he has no argument over LeBron.

[Kawaii Leonard]

Literally laughing out loud
GB worse than reddit istg

[web123888]

He’s a better overall basketball player than peak LeBron. Much more dominant offensive player. Better scorer, much better rebounder/passer, much much better shooter as well. Way better post game, mid range, decision making.

He’s also gotten more done with far less help. Never required the services of a top 3-5 player to win, of which LeBron has needed two separate ones.

If Jokic teamed up with Giannis or Embiid he’d win titles more easily than he’s already been doing.

He likely won’t pass Jordan as the GOAT as multiple 3 peats and 6 rings is near impossible stuff but he certainly can pass LeBron.

He’s only 1 regular season MVP behind and a few titles. Plus his game is pure skill / strength and girth / IQ and no athleticism - should age very well.

[RSP83]

I would rephrase the question to: "Is Lebron that much better than Jokic?"
I would add to that: "Is Lebron that much better than guys like Tim Duncan, Kobe Bryant?"

Seriously other than longevity, I don't see how Lebron is head over heels above the guy I mentioned above. I could start a franchise with Tim Duncan and Kobe Bryant and I would get probably more less the same result as starting with Lebron. I also don't mind starting a franchise with Jokic over Lebron. Seems lower maintenance with about similar rate of success. I think Denver will we win it again this year.

[ScrantonBulls]

I would rephrase the question to: "Is Lebron that much better than Jokic?"
I would add to that: "Is Lebron that much better than guys like Tim Duncan, Kobe Bryant?"

Seriously other than longevity, I don't see how Lebron is head over heels above the guy I mentioned above. I could start a franchise with Tim Duncan and Kobe Bryant and I would get probably more less the same result as starting with Lebron. I also don't mind starting a franchise with Jokic over Lebron. Seems lower maintenance with about similar rate of success. I think Denver will we win it again this year.

If you can't see why LeBron is easily better than Kobe, I'm afraid you just aren't very knowledgeable about basketball. It isn't particularly close and it doesn't take intense analysis to see why LeBron is clearly better than Kobe.

[Anticon]

If Lebron gets held to a 6 championship MJ standard then Jokic should be held to a 4.

Yup. Rings matter in this conversation.

Jokic is only getting started...how long he can sustain it (and wants to) will determine his standing.

I don't think he'll be playing into his mid 30s.

But it's too early for this conversation. This year is about where Jokic stands compared to the all time great bigs (Russell, Wilt, Kareem, Shaq, Duncan, Hakeem) and then we'll see next year.

[RSP83]

I would rephrase the question to: "Is Lebron that much better than Jokic?"
I would add to that: "Is Lebron that much better than guys like Tim Duncan, Kobe Bryant?"

Seriously other than longevity, I don't see how Lebron is head over heels above the guy I mentioned above. I could start a franchise with Tim Duncan and Kobe Bryant and I would get probably more less the same result as starting with Lebron. I also don't mind starting a franchise with Jokic over Lebron. Seems lower maintenance with about similar rate of success. I think Denver will we win it again this year.

If you can't see why LeBron is easily better than Kobe, I'm afraid you just aren't very knowledgeable about basketball. It isn't particularly close and it doesn't take intense analysis to see why LeBron is clearly better than Kobe.

You miss my point. What is 'Better' really mean? Yes, Lebron is more talented than Kobe, but for the talent that he has, Kobe produce better result. I go back to what I said, other than longevity I don't think Lebron create too much separation with guys who's regarded below him, such as Kobe and Duncan. If there's an NBA draft pick of HoF caliber NBA player, why do you have to pick Lebron over Kobe or Duncan? I can understand people picking Lebron, but Kobe over Lebron would've been fine too.

[RSP83]

If Lebron gets held to a 6 championship MJ standard then Jokic should be held to a 4.

Yup. Rings matter in this conversation.

Jokic is only getting started...how long he can sustain it (and wants to) will determine his standing.

I don't think he'll be playing into his mid 30s.

But it's too early for this conversation. This year is about where Jokic stands compared to the all time great bigs (Russell, Wilt, Kareem, Shaq, Duncan, Hakeem) and then we'll see next year.

+1. Once you reach this tier. Rings matter.

[UglyBugBall]

Can Jokic first separate himself from Luka, healthy Embiid (healthy) and Wemby before making this thread?

[ScrantonBulls]

I would rephrase the question to: "Is Lebron that much better than Jokic?"
I would add to that: "Is Lebron that much better than guys like Tim Duncan, Kobe Bryant?"

Seriously other than longevity, I don't see how Lebron is head over heels above the guy I mentioned above. I could start a franchise with Tim Duncan and Kobe Bryant and I would get probably more less the same result as starting with Lebron. I also don't mind starting a franchise with Jokic over Lebron. Seems lower maintenance with about similar rate of success. I think Denver will we win it again this year.

If you can't see why LeBron is easily better than Kobe, I'm afraid you just aren't very knowledgeable about basketball. It isn't particularly close and it doesn't take intense analysis to see why LeBron is clearly better than Kobe.

You miss my point. What is 'Better' really mean? Yes, Lebron is more talented than Kobe, but for the talent that he has, Kobe produce better result. I go back to what I said, other than longevity I don't think Lebron create too much separation with guys who's regarded below him, such as Kobe and Duncan. If there's an NBA draft pick of HoF caliber NBA player, why do you have to pick Lebron over Kobe or Duncan? I can understand people picking Lebron, but Kobe over Lebron would've been fine too.

So if LeBron dictated where he wouldn't play from BEFORE he was drafted (Kobe saying he wouldn't play for the Nets) and got traded to Lakers, played with prime Shaq, then played with Lau, Odom, Gasol, Bynum, etc., all while being coached by Phil Jackson, the results would be the same? LeBron with prime Shaq easily wins more than 3 championships, on account of him being clearly better than Kobe at every stage of his career... He probably doesn't drive Shaq out either.

You're conveniently ignoring literally ALL context. Literally anybody with rudimentary basketball knowledge would take LeBron over Kobe if they could choose.

I take it you would choose Robert Horry over Kobe though. He just got better results.

[TheNG]

He’s a better overall basketball player than peak LeBron. Much more dominant offensive player. Better scorer, much better rebounder/passer, much much better shooter as well. Way better post game, mid range, decision making.

He’s also gotten more done with far less help. Never required the services of a top 3-5 player to win, of which LeBron has needed two separate ones.

If Jokic teamed up with Giannis or Embiid he’d win titles more easily than he’s already been doing.

He likely won’t pass Jordan as the GOAT as multiple 3 peats and 6 rings is near impossible stuff but he certainly can pass LeBron.

He’s only 1 regular season MVP behind and a few titles. Plus his game is pure skill / strength and girth / IQ and no athleticism - should age very well.

Even if Jokic would have done that it wouldn't have been close to what LeBron did. In 2009-10, the year before the Heatles were born, LeBron was 1st, Wade was 2nd, and Bosh was 4th in efficiency rating (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/per_top_10.html)
So the eqivalent move by Jokic would be to join forces with Giannis and Luka at the beginning if this season.
But LeBron joined forces with the 2 best players from the East - so maybe the eqivalence would be if Jokic joined forced with Luka and SGA.
Let that sink in.
I agree with all the posters in this thread laughing about what has become of RealGm board.
The comparison is not in place at all. You just cannot compare them.
This thread has no place.
Jokic peak is at least a tier higher.