Anthony Edwards Trajectory

[Primedeion]

Based on what, exactly?

Better defender, more efficient for his era, better box score numbers, better advanced numbers (BPM/VORP/WS). Kobe also had a couple of massive playoff series in 2001 that Ant is unlikely to match. Against the 6 SRS Kings he dropped 35/9/4 on 59 TS% (league average was 51.8% that year) and against the 8 SRS Spurs he averaged 33/7/7 on 57 TS%.

Kobe at 22 had a 55% TS%.

Edwards at 22 has a 58% TS%.

Kobe was not as efficient as Edwards at 22.

He was a better defender, or more widely regarded, at 22. Awards say so.

01 Kobe: 107 TS+ (meaning his TS% was 7% better than league average)/112 individual ORTG (+9 relative to league average)

24 Edwards: 99 TS+ (meaning his TS% was 1% lower than league average)/112 Individual ORTG (-3 below league average)

Kobe was far FAR more efficient. Y'all cant even the basic facts right.

[One_and_Done]

He's shaping up to be a better version of Kobe. Still not a top 5 player, but he might get there.

No way. AE is a fine player but I don’t see the killer instinct that Kobe and Jordan had.

You’re underrating Kobe with “not top 5” too.

The stats suggest Kobe was overrated as a clutch player. Nor would Kobe be top 5 today.

Here's 2021 stats comparing Kobe in the clutch to Lillard and Lebron. RS and PS.

Bryant: 37.4 FG%, 42.4 eFG%; 34.0 FG%, 39.0 eFG%
Lillard: 43.5 FG%, 51.9 eFG%; 37.9 FG%, 48.3 eFG%
James: 41.6 FG%, 46.1 eFG; 45.7 FG%, 52.1 eFG%

[thinktank]

Kobe was more efficient in league context yet Edwards literally has a significantly higher TS% than Kobe at 22.

Not sure I buy that.

[One_and_Done]

Better defender, more efficient for his era, better box score numbers, better advanced numbers (BPM/VORP/WS). Kobe also had a couple of massive playoff series in 2001 that Ant is unlikely to match. Against the 6 SRS Kings he dropped 35/9/4 on 59 TS% (league average was 51.8% that year) and against the 8 SRS Spurs he averaged 33/7/7 on 57 TS%.

Kobe at 22 had a 55% TS%.

Edwards at 22 has a 58% TS%.

Kobe was not as efficient as Edwards at 22.

He was a better defender, or more widely regarded, at 22. Awards say so.

01 Kobe: 107 TS+ (meaning his TS% was 7% better than league average)/112 individual ORTG (+9 relative to league average)

24 Edwards: 99 TS+ (meaning his TS% was 1% lower than league average)/112 Individual ORTG (-3 below league average)

Kobe was far FAR more efficient. Y'all cant even the basic facts right.

Comparing relative TS% with a flat adjustment is absurd. Let's say Bob Cousy was +1 TS% in 1955. Does it follow he would be +1 today? Obviously not. He just played in a crap era. We can't punish guys for playing in a league where everyone can shoot, or reward people for being in a league where shooting sucked.

In Kobe's era Ant would likely see his TS% go up.

[bake51]

Not saying Ant is better than Kobe whatsoever but you also need to consider that Ant's numbers would increase substantially if he played with prime Shaq.

Ant is putting up these numbers as the bonafide alpha, number 1 scorer, and leader of this team.

[OkcSinceSGA]

He's got a very good chance at being the best guard in the league for a significant stretch of time. And that time's probably starting soon.

After that, you judge by rings.

Non starter discussion. Luka and SGA are like 25. I see nothing that indicates he will surpass either of them ever, let alone soon. Like what leap are you seeing in him that lets him leap these two MVP candidates?

[Airmiess]

He's got a very good chance at being the best guard in the league for a significant stretch of time. And that time's probably starting soon.

After that, you judge by rings.

Non starter discussion. Luka and SGA are like 25. I see nothing that indicates he will surpass either of them ever, let alone soon. Like what leap are you seeing in him that lets him leap these two MVP candidates?

Ant and SGA are in the same tier. SGA is my guy 100 grand... I give him the edge for defense and the ability to play 1,2,3 positions all at the same level.

[OkcSinceSGA]

He's got a very good chance at being the best guard in the league for a significant stretch of time. And that time's probably starting soon.

After that, you judge by rings.

Non starter discussion. Luka and SGA are like 25. I see nothing that indicates he will surpass either of them ever, let alone soon. Like what leap are you seeing in him that lets him leap these two MVP candidates?

Ant and SGA are in the same tier. SGA is my guy 100 grand... I give him the edge for defense and the ability to play 1,2,3 positions all at the same level.

Anyone that says SGA and Ant are currently in the same tier of players cannot be trusted in basketball analysis.

[nzd07]

Kobe was clearly better at 22 than Ant currently is. He is definitely not on pace to be Kobe.

Based on what, exactly?

Better defender, more efficient for his era, better box score numbers, better advanced numbers (BPM/VORP/WS). Kobe also had a couple of massive playoff series in 2001 that Ant is unlikely to match. Against the 6 SRS Kings he dropped 35/9/4 on 59 TS% (league average was 51.8% that year) and against the 8 SRS Spurs he averaged 33/7/7 on 57 TS%.

The playoffs aren't over yet - but Ant's playoff resume, thus far, looks superior to Kobe's.

[foobar24]

Wacky thought came to mind...or could he perhaps turn out to be a 'Kawhi' type of system-player, if based on sentiments in here that he's being a sponge and receptive/coachable to learn the 'game' as he goes along. After all, that's how the Claw came to be, right?

[nzd07]

His trajectory is basically Kobe Bryant with an inferior offensive game. In short, a homeless man’s Kobe or a Neanderthals man Jordan.

Lots of revisionist history on Kobe's offensive game. Some people labeled him as a chucker in his prime.

You mean ignorant morons?

Well, there's a reason he only won 1 MVP

[Primedeion]

Lots of revisionist history on Kobe's offensive game. Some people labeled him as a chucker in his prime.

You mean ignorant morons?

Well, there's a reason he only won 1 MVP

Oh wow. He won MVP, has more top five finishes than all but one player in NBA history, and is only top ten all-time in MVP shares.

What a disappointment.

[wablty]

Kobe was clearly better at 22 than Ant currently is. He is definitely not on pace to be Kobe.

I know this is basically sacrilege and all, but no. I love Kobe, but he was not clearly better at 22. Kobe was playing off absolute peak Shaq and eating defenses that couldn't focus on him.

[tsherkin]

Kobe was more efficient in league context yet Edwards literally has a significantly higher TS% than Kobe at 22.

Not sure I buy that.

Average efficiency is higher. Average shooting percentages in the paint is like 10% higher. Average 3pt shooting volume is higher. None of this is super surprising.

It is likely that Kobe's absolute efficiency would be at least somewhat higher today because of some of that. Depending on his shooting volume and if he was able to shoot better from 3 (minding that he had a dozen or so seasons of 4+ 3PA/g and 7 of 5+, including 3 at 5.9 or more, topping out at 7.1) and all that.

He would not be an efficiency king in today's environment, and without notable change, it's also unlikely that with his 3pt ability and shot selection that he'd replicate his relative efficiency today if his game remained static, either. But that involves the assumption that nothing about his approach to the game would change in today's environment, which isn't an absolute. He was stubborn and played his way a lot even when it wasn't the ideal approach even back then, but he did add to his game and adapt over time, so there's some consideration to be made there.

He certainly had the physical tools. He certainly had the shooting ability inside the arc. He certainly had the handles and isolation skills. And outside of the triangle, if he was smashing a lot more PnRs, we might have seen a more interesting shot profile. He'd definitely have shot better in the paint today because he was pretty good in-era during a tougher time in that regard. A complex evaluation.

[Primedeion]

Kobe was clearly better at 22 than Ant currently is. He is definitely not on pace to be Kobe.

I know this is basically sacrilege and all, but no. I love Kobe, but he was not clearly better at 22. Kobe was playing off absolute peak Shaq and eating defenses that couldn't focus on him.

Except 01 Kobe was drawing tons of defensive attention, carrying just as big a offensive load, and his numbers were far better with Shaq on the bench/out of the lineup. The advanced metrics favor Kobe in a total blowout. Y'all are delusional.

[tsherkin]

His trajectory is basically Kobe Bryant with an inferior offensive game. In short, a homeless man’s Kobe or a Neanderthals man Jordan.

Lots of revisionist history on Kobe's offensive game. Some people labeled him as a chucker in his prime.

There is misconception there.

Kobe, at times, had really frustrating shot selection. But his actual efficiency was not bad. It was a situational issue. For most of his prime, he was like 3% better than league average TS%.

[One_and_Done]

His trajectory is basically Kobe Bryant with an inferior offensive game. In short, a homeless man’s Kobe or a Neanderthals man Jordan.

Lots of revisionist history on Kobe's offensive game. Some people labeled him as a chucker in his prime.

There is misconception there.

Kobe, at times, had really frustrating shot selection. But his actual efficiency was not bad. It was a situational issue. For most of his prime, he was like 3% better than league average TS%.

And if we ported Ant into Kobe's era he'd probably be 5-8% better than league average. Flat TS% adjustments don't work because they reward ppl who played in worse leagues.

[Primedeion]

Not saying Ant is better than Kobe whatsoever but you also need to consider that Ant's numbers would increase substantially if he played with prime Shaq.

Just like Eddie Jones right? Or do you not realize that Kobe's numbers were consistently far better with Shaq on the bench and out of the lineup? The way y'all overrate Shaq is hilarious. Ant is playing with the one of the GOAT shooters/floor spacers and in a league that's far kinder to perimeter players and he still can't even reach league average efficiency. He's nowhere near a top 3-5 player like Bryant was.

[One_and_Done]

Not saying Ant is better than Kobe whatsoever but you also need to consider that Ant's numbers would increase substantially if he played with prime Shaq.

Just like Eddie Jones right? Or do you not realize that Kobe's numbers were consistently far better with Shaq on the bench and out of the lineup? The way y'all overrate Shaq is hilarious. Ant is playing with the one of the GOAT shooters/floor spacers and in a league that's far kinder to perimeter players and he still can't even reach league average efficiency. He's nowhere near a top 3-5 player like Bryant was.

Lakers were 135-137 in games Kobe played and Shaq didn't from 99-07. Pretty sure he got a huge bonus from playing with Shaq. Meanwhile the Lakers played at a 60 win pace in games Shaq played without Kobe from 99-04.

[nzd07]

You mean ignorant morons?

Well, there's a reason he only won 1 MVP

Oh wow. He won MVP, has more top five finishes than all but one player in NBA history, and is only top ten all-time in MVP shares.

What a disappointment.

He still only won 1 MVP. And yet, people compare him to a guy who won 6