Starting a team in 2024 - Shaq or Joker

[r0drig0lac]

Shaq

[MacGill]

I'm a huge Shaq fan, and I will still go with O'Neal. Almost 14 straight years of 20/10 plus a top 2 GOAT peak ever! I'm also on the Jokic bandwagon, however, there are two things missing from him before I go him over Shaq. We haven't seen him play with another superstar alpha counterpart. This is big bonus for Shaq to me. Dude made it work with Kobe and did it as the highest potent duo peak/prime ever. The last, he needs to maintain this level of play for longer, which he should have no problem doing. Shaq is a top 5 player so it'll be no easy task surpassing him and Shaq's play compliments almost every other type of co-star.

[bledredwine]

This is tough.

[sikma42]

It was very difficult to get Shaq to play "the right way". He was usually lazy on defense and a mediocre passer. Phil Jackson managed to reach him for about 2.5 years, but that's it. The rest of his career, he was not the best he could be. I'd definitely prefer Jokic. He elevates his teammates more, he motivates his teammates to play unselfishly, and he has the versatility to coexist alongside any type of offensive player. He is also more durable.

Shaq was a mediocre passer?


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relative to Jokic, at least.

Shaq was a better passer than almost any center in the league (Wemby is special here as well). It was undeniably a strength. He could make every pass and could intuitively read every coverage thrown at him.

He is nowhere no Jokic but in that case we’d have to call a lot of talented passers mediocre.


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[moderndarwin]

I actually think Shaq would have more problems and trouble guarding Embidness than he would Joker the more I watch of both

[xxSnEaKyPxx]

Shaq would dominate even more offensively, but he'd get torched trying to defend in this league. Teams would force him on the perimeter defensively, and he'd just getting picked on the entire game.

[moderndarwin]

Shaq would dominate even more offensively, but he'd get torched trying to defend in this league. Teams would force him on the perimeter defensively, and he'd just getting picked on the entire game.

In what world is Kevon Looney, Zubac, Joker, able to stay on the floor defensively but Shaq Diesel wouldn’t lol. He is arguably the best physical specimen of all time he’d easily handle the perimeter oriented game of today. He’d just stay slimmer since he doesn’t have any big boys to battle against in the post.

[xxSnEaKyPxx]

Shaq would dominate even more offensively, but he'd get torched trying to defend in this league. Teams would force him on the perimeter defensively, and he'd just getting picked on the entire game.

In what world is Kevon Looney, Zubac, Joker, able to stay on the floor defensively but Shaq Diesel wouldn’t lol. He is arguably the best physical specimen of all time he’d easily handle the perimeter oriented game of today. He’d just stay slimmer since he doesn’t have any big boys to battle against in the post.

…I didn’t say he wouldn’t stay on the floor, just said he’d get picked on. Which he absolutely would.

[KayDee35]

Shaq would dominate even more offensively, but he'd get torched trying to defend in this league. Teams would force him on the perimeter defensively, and he'd just getting picked on the entire game.

In what world is Kevon Looney, Zubac, Joker, able to stay on the floor defensively but Shaq Diesel wouldn’t lol. He is arguably the best physical specimen of all time he’d easily handle the perimeter oriented game of today. He’d just stay slimmer since he doesn’t have any big boys to battle against in the post.

Shaq's wight gain was due to battling beignets and gumbo and losing (or winning, depending on your perspective). Jerry Buss said that they traded Shaq because they kept asking him to lose weight and he never did.

He thought trading Shaq would help him get the message. Shaq lost 50 pounds after being traded, so it seemed to have worked.

But the Lakers would probably have been stuck with the heavier version considering that's what he gave them.

The Lakers traded him when he was 32. So now we're talking about 12 years of Shaq instead 15?

This quote from Bill Simmons's book sums up Shaq well:

My theory: basketball was never as much fun for Shaq as everything else happening in his life. Officials allowed opponents to defend him differently, shove him out of position and pull his shoulders on dunks. Teams fouled him in key moments and flashed a giant spotlight on his one weakness. The loathsome Hack-a-Shaq tactics were insulting and maybe even a little humiliating. Even when he kicked everyone’s asses (like from 2000 to 2002), he received a decent amount of credit… but not really. The guy couldn’t win.

Shaq could have earned a top-five Pyramid spot and multiple MVPs, but he happily settled for no. 11, some top-five records, three Finals MVPs and a fantastically fun ride. It reminds me of a life decision I made in college: instead of killing myself gunning for a 3.5 or higher, I worked for our newspaper and radio station, wrote a weekly sports column, then spent an inordinate amount of time hanging with my friends, partying, procrastinating and creating memories. I graduated with a 3.04 and wouldn’t change a thing. Neither would Shaq, who probably finished with a 3.68 in this analogy. If there’s a difference, it’s that Shaq convinced himself that his 3.68 was really a 4.0. And it wasn’t.

[Godymas]

Shaq has 4 championships and Joker has one

it's really easy to know which one to pick in this scenario all the players that really matter get about 4

[moderndarwin]

I’d like to resurface this thread today.

Today was a perfect example of why Joker would get murdered by Shaq. Shaqs physicality would speed him up he’d have to do a lot more work to get his shots off. He wouldn’t have the weight or strength advantage and can’t just lean on Shaq and get chippy easy hook shots. Even Naz Reid impacted him today. True 7 footers with foot speed, length etc can impact Joker.

And oh man Joker guarding Shaq would be an absolute nightmare for him. He’d get exhausted and or in foul trouble.

If you can’t see that from today’s game i don’t know what else to say.

[LaLover11]

I’d like to resurface this thread today.

Today was a perfect example of why Joker would get murdered by Shaq. Shaqs physicality would speed him up he’d have to do a lot more work to get his shots off. He wouldn’t have the weight or strength advantage and can’t just lean on Shaq and get chippy easy hook shots. Even Naz Reid impacted him today. True 7 footers with foot speed, length etc can impact Joker.

And oh man Joker guarding Shaq would be an absolute nightmare for him. He’d get exhausted and or in foul trouble.

If you can’t see that from today’s game i don’t know what else to say.

Jokic will never be better than Prime Shaq

[Gregoire]

Joker, but its close. In 2000 I maybe would choose Shaq.

[Bob Ross]

I voted Shaq. I've never seen anyone as physically dominant as him. I'm surprised Jokic is winning the poll by such a large margin. Maybe a lot of people here didn't see young and prime Shaq play

[Roy T]

And 3 MVPs in 4 years.

What? Is it offical that he won this season? I can't find any news on that.

[moderndarwin]

I gotta say it’s embarrassing people picking Joker. You throw an athletic solid good 7 footer with strength defender on him and the game changes. His stats are compiled against people he primarily has large physical advantages against. That’s not to say someone like Shaq or David Robinson don’t do that. It’s just to say that he’s insanely lucky that only Embiid right now is truly his size and weight in the league and athletic enough to guard him.

Watching Naz Reid properly guard him I feel comfortable saying Alonzo, Ewing, Robinson, Shaq, Hakeem would all impact him a lot. And in prior years Draymond did a decently good job on him.

[OdomFan]

I see 0 reason why Shaq couldn't adjust to today. Give him some time to adjust to how things are played now, and I think he'd be determined to prove people wrong on whether he could play now. I think 1 or 2 games of him finding himself feeling like some what of a liability defensively at guarding outside shooting bigs would motivate him to focus on working on how he can improve at those things with the teams coaching staff.

Then he'd surprise many with the adjustments. Shaq was arrogant but he was a proven winner for a reason. I'm taking that 2024 Shaq with the required prep time to be ready to give this era a real go at it over Jokic any day.