Starting a team in 2024 - Shaq or Joker

[JackZZ]

Lol, Shaq in todays game would be free dunks + And1. The question is whether he could adjust on perimeter defense. He was very agile for his size during his young and prime days, so I'd incline to believe he could.

[Residual-Heat]

If Shaq was in the league today, many of the top centers in the NBA today would probably move to PF when they play his team. Teams would sign a couple of big men just to throw at Shaq.

[Wargreymon]

I don't think Shaq would be quick enough to switch everything and guard the 3 point line. Maybe rookie Shaq out of LSU might be capable when he wasn't as chunky but definitely not the LA behemoth Shaq. Not to mention the hack a Shaq would be a pace killer especially in the 4th. Gimme Jokic in 2024.

[ogmagicfan]

Give me Shaq. He's shown what he can do when in shape from his stats in the Finals while on the Lakers. Modern NBA I would hope he would keep more of the Orlando Shaq frame which would allow him to guard both the perimeter and paint.

If he kept the Orlando Shaq frame he would be the best in the league right now.

He also was a good passer. He would put up 35, 12-13 rpg, 4-5 apg with 2-3 blocks. He'd be Embiid but a better finisher and defender with no jump shot.

[Yoshun]

I'd take Shaq, he's the better defender.

Anyone who pretends this "isn't close" doesn't know what they're talking about. This is a tough call.

[foobar24]

Knowing what we know now, I'd pick Joker.

Sure, you might be in contending mode at the jump with Shaq, but as a long term, 15-year investment Joker will be the better ROI.

[pillwenney]

It's close enough to where it depends on era. Now I'd take Jokic just because his ability to pick apart defenses is what makes him impossible now. IMO that skill gets limited slightly in more crowded eras. It'd still be awesome and maybe even more impressive, but less dominant when most of the team is like 16 feet and in.

Shaq would be impossible in his own way, but in terms of starting a franchise, he's also more high maintenance, probably more likely to leave, and I think a worse leader. And while he was obviously impossible down low and also to be fair a very good passer, I think current Jokic is a more dynamic offensive weapon in the modern league.

With that said, I'd still take Shaq in earlier times. They'd both obviously be incredible in any era.

[Exp0sed]

I'd take Shaq, he's the better defender.

Anyone who pretends this "isn't close" doesn't know what they're talking about. This is a tough call.

I have Shaq but "better defender" might be the last argument i'd use tbh
rookie Shaq could def hang but Lakers Shaq would be a defensive liability. sure he can protect the rim much better than Jokic but that's that..in all other facets of a modern defense - Jokic is better

Shaq was abused in the PNR even back in the day
Jokic might have a slow first step but he can sprint pretty fast tbh and he is a workhorse. Shaq was lazy, you really think Shaq would be closing out on 3 pt shooters? half ass*d at best

still Shaq for me, but def not because of "defense"

Jokic is already posing a huge issue for switch heavy modern schemes, imagine switching everything and have Shaq guarded by a guard inside haha. in short - teams would have to change their whole defense, there's no way you can switch everything with Shaq around

[OkcSinceSGA]

Jokic easily. The playmaking just widens the gap too much. I don’t even think in the modern NBA teams would mind an opponent running an offense through Shaq bully ball. Let him get his 30 ppg on dunks, lock up everyone else. Jokic can score 10 and still have a monstrous impact in every other way.

Shaq just doesn’t fit in the modern game defensively.

[Wallace_Wallace]

15 years? You'll hardly make it to 3 years before he starts bitching about some other star that gets paired with him and ultimately demands out.

This is Jokic fairly easily.

Well the original poster said they're guaranteed to stay on the team so i'm assuming he has to stay

Is their trajectory going to be the same? Shaq came into the league a superstar. It took Jokic 4 seasons - i'll take the opportunity to win right from year 1.

Guaranteed to stay with you, but not guaranteed to not feud, come into training camp fat, postpone surgery until the season starts so that you're "healing on company time" and just be a completely unsufferable POS?

I used to think Kobe was the culprit behind much of the Lakers' melodrama but it's become clear that it was Shaq all along.

That’s true, chemistry is one of the most important, if not the most important, factors to win. Imagine Shaq having that roster in 2022 which f’ing Rivers and Campazzo were his point guards, he would demand to be traded at the end of the season.

Also, he would likely feud with Mike Malone and end up in “Either fire him or trade me” situation.

[AleksandarN]

Is it really a sizable margin vs Luka and Embiid?


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Ya Id say so. I mean in the last 4 years Jokic has played in 70 more games than Embiid. Put that into perspective, the most games Embiid has ever played in a season is 68. So in the last 4 years, Denver has essentially gotten 1 extra regular season out of Jokic vs what Philly has gotten from Embiid.

In the last 4 years Id say Jokic has been the leader in probably at least 80% or more of the advanced stats for the regular season. Then you go and look at what he's done in the playoffs. Jokic has arguably been a top 3 playoff performer of all time. And unlike Luka and Embiid, Jokic does have the championship.

And 3 MVPs in 4 years. How many other guys have done that? 7? Id say Jokic has a pretty sizeable gap between him and everyone else at the moment.

Embiid was the front runner for MVP this year and won it last year. If you are head and shoulders better than someone you don’t lose to them back to back for MVPs if not for an injury/rule change.

And Luka imo played better than him this year and will only lose do the strength of his support cast. I think we are conflating awards with who is better. When Shaq played, even when he didn’t when the MVP, we ALL knew who was better…the MVP isn’t for the best player.


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Did you not read his post. He pointed out the availability of Jokic compared to Embiid. Jokic has been way more effective than Embiid in the playoffs not even close. Jokic is the best player in the league.

[AleksandarN]

I'm very high on Jokic but Shaq is literally one of the only guys who were clearly better

very hard to compare between eras but I think in this day and age, with so much more money involved as well, Shaq would have alot more incentive to actually stay fit and professional

social media too, would put alot of pressure on a guy like Shaq
he'd be unstoppable

with modern coaching, schemes, medicine, shooting mechanics and analytics there would really be no answer for a more professional and well conditioned version of Shaq

Shaq has been struggling with his weight all of his life. Including now. What makes you think this changes

[AleksandarN]

Please no one could stop Shaq back then, no one can stop Shaq now

Children please

Why do you feel the need to call fellow posters children?

[THE J0KER]

People compare peak-Shaq vs Peak-Jokic, but the true decider from GM's point of view in this case is this:

Number of seasons Shaq missed at least 15 games: 12 out of 19.
Number of seasons Jokic missed at least 10 games: 1 out of 9.


That said, Shaq was a much more marketable player than Jokic, which team owners and GM do not ignore, so coaches would be mostly in favor of Jokic, owners in the favor of Shaq, but not sure about GMs.

[AleksandarN]

Give me Shaq back in 2000. Now in modern day it would very close between the two.

[cdubbz]

Jokic easily. The playmaking just widens the gap too much. I don’t even think in the modern NBA teams would mind an opponent running an offense through Shaq bully ball. Let him get his 30 ppg on dunks, lock up everyone else. Jokic can score 10 and still have a monstrous impact in every other way.

Shaq just doesn’t fit in the modern game defensively.

OP said starting with 20year old versions. 20y/o Shaq would absolutely be able to fit in modern game defensively.

I disagree on modern teams not minding offense ran through Shaq. Shaq forced teams to have sign bigs just to guard him - he would cause foul trouble in most situations eating at opponents big man depth while also helping his team get over the foul limit.

[Exp0sed]

Shaq has been struggling with his weight all of his life. Including now. What makes you think this changes

idk, just a hunch tbh
perhaps it doesn't change..

i'm assuming if he played today that means he also grew up in a different era and the focus on such things, nutrition, profesionalism etc. starts much earlier now, long before the pros

I will say this for the Jokic column - Jokic has thus far been extremely durable. Shaq was very durable in his first 3 seasons and then he cratered in that respect, perhaps if he had been on a normal weight he could have had more durability as well

if there's a reason to go with Jokic it would def be that imo

[Exp0sed]

Jokic easily. The playmaking just widens the gap too much. I don’t even think in the modern NBA teams would mind an opponent running an offense through Shaq bully ball. Let him get his 30 ppg on dunks, lock up everyone else. Jokic can score 10 and still have a monstrous impact in every other way.

Shaq just doesn’t fit in the modern game defensively.

he wouldn't have 30 tho, he'd have 50

[DCRYsing89]

There’s very few Centres/ Traditional bigs in the same tier as what Jokic is playing right now… The fact he has maintained this level for years makes that gap smaller…

Kareem, Hakeem and Shaq are the only guys there with him…
In saying that you can’t stop Jokic, because there just isn’t a formula…
Shaq made everyone take like 2-3 lumbering bigs on their roster just to slow him down… even though people knew how to slow him down, no one (bar Hakeem) could stop him consistently …

Can you imagine if teams were carrying a bunch of Bobans just to slow Shaq down and how easy that mismatch would be to attack for any star guard?

All in all, depends the coach,
If the coach can keep Shaq locked in and playing selfless, he is the guy you’d want…
Otherwise, you go Jokic since you know your getting a great teammate leader consistently along with similar offensive production, but less defensive impact.

[zero rings]

Too many people talk about Shaq as this hypothetical version of himself that never actually existed. If you pick Shaq, you have to take him with all of his warts. That means you get his poor work ethic, his durability issues, and his gigantic ego.

For me this is Jokic pretty easily. I think he's a better player on both ends and he clears Shaq in terms of intangibles.