PLAYOFF HARDEN

[bledredwine]

Harden has to be the only dude who consistently comes out, single handedly wins his teams playoff games to keep the series alive, and then gets crushed when his team falters.

Sometimes I forget he scored 40+ twice in that series last year to keep Philly in it against Boston with the way you people act.

Okay, he isn't the best closer, his fans will concede that, but where is Joel, Paul, Kawhi, Kyrie, and PG in these moments? Not an excuse, but this guy has been let down by his costars, who all of you will have higher on your ATG lists, more than any other player i've seen play the game of basketball.

The dude delivers these guys wins they never should have, it would be nice for just one of them to return the favor once in a while

I think that this is the problem with Harden though. The greatest players are usually consistent and even if their offense doesn't fall, they can impact the game in other ways. Harden's had the talent but has consistently underperformed in important games. He relied too much on 3's and getting to the line, so if his 3s aren't falling and he doesn't get 15 free throws, his impact is poor when it comes to winning games.

[Iwasawitness]

Harden has to be the only dude who consistently comes out, single handedly wins his teams playoff games to keep the series alive, and then gets crushed when his team falters.

Sometimes I forget he scored 40+ twice in that series last year to keep Philly in it against Boston with the way you people act.

Okay, he isn't the best closer, his fans will concede that, but where is Joel, Paul, Kawhi, Kyrie, and PG in these moments? Not an excuse, but this guy has been let down by his costars, who all of you will have higher on your ATG lists, more than any other player i've seen play the game of basketball.

The dude delivers these guys wins they never should have, it would be nice for just one of them to return the favor once in a while

I mean, it's true

The best players on his team constantly don't show up either, kinda hard to fault James for that.

Embiid last year was 5/17 with a 15/8 statline, the MVP in that Game 7

18 the year you all hate on him, Paul didn't even play Game 7, Harden still put up 30+ went 5/7 in the 4th. His team got blown out in the 3rd where his roleplayers went 0-11 from 3

Other than those years, what has been the expectation, that he single handedly beat the Warriors, the 2nd greatest team in the history of the sport? With Trevor Ariza and Eric Gordon as his running makes?

Not everyone has the luxury of playing with Wade, Kyrie, and AD and other HoFers at every stop

First off, Harden shot 2/13 from deep in that game you’re specifying. You can cherry pick numbers if you want but make no mistake: he was awful in that game.

Second, what, playing with KD, Russ, CP3, Embiid (no, I don’t care how bad Embiid was in those games… Harden scored 13 and 9 in the last two games of that series, he was just as much at fault) and George isn’t in of itself a luxury? Pretty sure these guys are all also going to be hall of famers. Harden has been in far more favorable situations than LeBron and this isn’t up for debate. To even try to claim his teammates are at fault for his failures is peak comedy.

[NZB2323]

Harden has to be the only dude who consistently comes out, single handedly wins his teams playoff games to keep the series alive, and then gets crushed when his team falters.

Sometimes I forget he scored 40+ twice in that series last year to keep Philly in it against Boston with the way you people act.

Okay, he isn't the best closer, his fans will concede that, but where is Joel, Paul, Kawhi, Kyrie, and PG in these moments? Not an excuse, but this guy has been let down by his costars, who all of you will have higher on your ATG lists, more than any other player i've seen play the game of basketball.

The dude delivers these guys wins they never should have, it would be nice for just one of them to return the favor once in a while

Who has Kyrie or PG ranked ahead of Harden?

Kawhi has 2 finals MVPs, he’s in a different category than the rest.

Joel’s career is TBD.

Chris Paul is a close one.

[dhsilv2]

I mean, it's true

The best players on his team constantly don't show up either, kinda hard to fault James for that.

Embiid last year was 5/17 with a 15/8 statline, the MVP in that Game 7

18 the year you all hate on him, Paul didn't even play Game 7, Harden still put up 30+ went 5/7 in the 4th. His team got blown out in the 3rd where his roleplayers went 0-11 from 3

Other than those years, what has been the expectation, that he single handedly beat the Warriors, the 2nd greatest team in the history of the sport? With Trevor Ariza and Eric Gordon as his running makes?

Not everyone has the luxury of playing with Wade, Kyrie, and AD and other HoFers at every stop

First off, Harden shot 2/13 from deep in that game you’re specifying. You can cherry pick numbers if you want but make no mistake: he was awful in that game.

Second, what, playing with KD, Russ, CP3, Embiid (no, I don’t care how bad Embiid was in those games… Harden scored 13 and 9 in the last two games of that series, he was just as much at fault) and George isn’t in of itself a luxury? Pretty sure these guys are all also going to be hall of famers. Harden has been in far more favorable situations than LeBron and this isn’t up for debate. To even try to claim his teammates are at fault for his failures is peak comedy.

KD/Russ - before he was a star
CP3 - got hurt in year one, was a shell of himself in year 2.
Embiid - missed games and was bad.

I'm sorry but yes Lebron has had better support. No clue why we are comparing the two given Lebron is on another 2 levels than Harden. But Harden hasn't gotten to play with 2011 Wade, didn't have a Bosh as a 3rd, and didn't have Irving or AD either. Two things can be true. Harden hasn't had the talent of teammates who were also healthy that Lebron has had and Lebron is a completely other worldly better player.

[og15]

lebron has 1 bad finals vs the mavs and gets stigamtized for his whole year career. but people doing everything to defend harden, who is a consistent playoff choker. its getting ridiculous in here

What's the stigma that has been placed on LeBron because of that finals?

[Iwasawitness]

I mean, it's true

The best players on his team constantly don't show up either, kinda hard to fault James for that.

Embiid last year was 5/17 with a 15/8 statline, the MVP in that Game 7

18 the year you all hate on him, Paul didn't even play Game 7, Harden still put up 30+ went 5/7 in the 4th. His team got blown out in the 3rd where his roleplayers went 0-11 from 3

Other than those years, what has been the expectation, that he single handedly beat the Warriors, the 2nd greatest team in the history of the sport? With Trevor Ariza and Eric Gordon as his running makes?

Not everyone has the luxury of playing with Wade, Kyrie, and AD and other HoFers at every stop

First off, Harden shot 2/13 from deep in that game you’re specifying. You can cherry pick numbers if you want but make no mistake: he was awful in that game.

Second, what, playing with KD, Russ, CP3, Embiid (no, I don’t care how bad Embiid was in those games… Harden scored 13 and 9 in the last two games of that series, he was just as much at fault) and George isn’t in of itself a luxury? Pretty sure these guys are all also going to be hall of famers. Harden has been in far more favorable situations than LeBron and this isn’t up for debate. To even try to claim his teammates are at fault for his failures is peak comedy.

KD/Russ - before he was a star
CP3 - got hurt in year one, was a shell of himself in year 2.
Embiid - missed games and was bad.

I'm sorry but yes Lebron has had better support. No clue why we are comparing the two given Lebron is on another 2 levels than Harden. But Harden hasn't gotten to play with 2011 Wade, didn't have a Bosh as a 3rd, and didn't have Irving or AD either. Two things can be true. Harden hasn't had the talent of teammates who were also healthy that Lebron has had and Lebron is a completely other worldly better player.

Harden had a team that was built to contend from the moment he stepped in the league. When he went to Houston, he had Dwight Howard along with a very good team surrounding him, and that was followed up with Chris Paul. And I’m sorry, are we going to ignore Brooklyn? Are we going to ignore Philly? Harden never had a player the caliber of 2011 Wade? Utter nonsense, he literally had a teammate win MVP while playing with him. And you want to go the route of injuries… Wade was hobbled two years into playing with LeBron. LeBron lost both Irving AND Love to injuries in the playoffs in his first year playing with them. In the second year, Love got concussed in the finals. And don’t even get me started on AD.

There is one thing you said here which is correct, and that’s that Harden is not on LeBron’s level as a player. THAT is the difference.

[HMFFL]

Luka still hasn’t surpassed peak Harden man. He just hasn’t

25 year old James Harden would be a good comparison since Harden was 2nd in MVP.

Keep in mind that Luka has been in the MVP race since his second year. Five of Six seasons. James Harden three times at age 25 or younger, and six seasons played.

Sent from my SM-N975U using RealGM Forums mobile app

[dhsilv2]

First off, Harden shot 2/13 from deep in that game you’re specifying. You can cherry pick numbers if you want but make no mistake: he was awful in that game.

Second, what, playing with KD, Russ, CP3, Embiid (no, I don’t care how bad Embiid was in those games… Harden scored 13 and 9 in the last two games of that series, he was just as much at fault) and George isn’t in of itself a luxury? Pretty sure these guys are all also going to be hall of famers. Harden has been in far more favorable situations than LeBron and this isn’t up for debate. To even try to claim his teammates are at fault for his failures is peak comedy.

KD/Russ - before he was a star
CP3 - got hurt in year one, was a shell of himself in year 2.
Embiid - missed games and was bad.

I'm sorry but yes Lebron has had better support. No clue why we are comparing the two given Lebron is on another 2 levels than Harden. But Harden hasn't gotten to play with 2011 Wade, didn't have a Bosh as a 3rd, and didn't have Irving or AD either. Two things can be true. Harden hasn't had the talent of teammates who were also healthy that Lebron has had and Lebron is a completely other worldly better player.

Harden had a team that was built to contend from the moment he stepped in the league. When he went to Houston, he had Dwight Howard along with a very good team surrounding him, and that was followed up with Chris Paul. And I’m sorry, are we going to ignore Brooklyn? Are we going to ignore Philly? Harden never had a player the caliber of 2011 Wade? Utter nonsense, he literally had a teammate win MVP while playing with him. And you want to go the route of injuries… Wade was hobbled two years into playing with LeBron. LeBron lost both Irving AND Love to injuries in the playoffs in his first year playing with them. In the second year, Love got concussed in the finals. And don’t even get me started on AD.

There is one thing you said here which is correct, and that’s that Harden is not on LeBron’s level as a player. THAT is the difference.

Dude stop!

Howard made a single allstar game with Harden, he was post that back injury and was never the player he'd been in orlando. After year 1 in Houston he'd miss half a season and the next year he averaged 13 points a game while being even more immobile.

I covered Embiid, they played in 9 games together where Embiid averaged 23.7 points a game on 43% shooting while turning it over nearly 4 times a game.

I covered Paul - he was amazing...but got injured in his first playoffs with Harden. Harden didn't get a full playoff run with a healthy and in shape Paul.

Brooklyn, you didn't bring it up but we can go there. Harden got hurt, that's on him. But we didn't get to see what could have happened if he'd been healthy there. That's a great what if. You can put that on harden for sure.

Here's the reality, Harden was in Houston from 2013-2020 and he got 1 year of Howard being somewhat an allstar and one year of CP3 constantly missing games but playing like an all nba player and they nearly took down one of the best teams in NBA history. Those were his best years. He got hurt in brooklyn and I'm not sure he ever got 100% back, but he got close enough and played with Embiid who won an MVP and then crapped the bed in the playoffs.

[shi-woo]

First off, Harden shot 2/13 from deep in that game you’re specifying. You can cherry pick numbers if you want but make no mistake: he was awful in that game.

Second, what, playing with KD, Russ, CP3, Embiid (no, I don’t care how bad Embiid was in those games… Harden scored 13 and 9 in the last two games of that series, he was just as much at fault) and George isn’t in of itself a luxury? Pretty sure these guys are all also going to be hall of famers. Harden has been in far more favorable situations than LeBron and this isn’t up for debate. To even try to claim his teammates are at fault for his failures is peak comedy.

KD/Russ - before he was a star
CP3 - got hurt in year one, was a shell of himself in year 2.
Embiid - missed games and was bad.

I'm sorry but yes Lebron has had better support. No clue why we are comparing the two given Lebron is on another 2 levels than Harden. But Harden hasn't gotten to play with 2011 Wade, didn't have a Bosh as a 3rd, and didn't have Irving or AD either. Two things can be true. Harden hasn't had the talent of teammates who were also healthy that Lebron has had and Lebron is a completely other worldly better player.

Harden had a team that was built to contend from the moment he stepped in the league. When he went to Houston, he had Dwight Howard along with a very good team surrounding him, and that was followed up with Chris Paul. And I’m sorry, are we going to ignore Brooklyn? Are we going to ignore Philly? Harden never had a player the caliber of 2011 Wade? Utter nonsense, he literally had a teammate win MVP while playing with him. And you want to go the route of injuries… Wade was hobbled two years into playing with LeBron. LeBron lost both Irving AND Love to injuries in the playoffs in his first year playing with them. In the second year, Love got concussed in the finals. And don’t even get me started on AD.

There is one thing you said here which is correct, and that’s that Harden is not on LeBron’s level as a player. THAT is the difference.

You are being disingenuous bringing up OKC. That year should be looked at as a positive of his career, not something that detracts it. That was a bunch of teenagers making it to the finals going against the first real Superteam of the modern era. How are you putting that on Harden?

Dwight? Post-back surgery Dwight that was a shell of himself? His 2nd option o offense being Chandler Parsons?

MVP Joel? Why doesn't he get the Heat for his game 6 and 7 performance, why is it James? No one clowning Kyrie or Bam when their teams couldn't pull through, why Harden?

HOU you have a point, until you realize the only team that knocked him out of the playoffs was Kawhi pre injury Spurs, and the Warriors

BRK? Where Kyrie didn't play, and both got hurt in the playoffs?

How about this, what series did James Harden lose, that his team was the favorite to win? None, literally not a single series. James Harden has never lost to a team he was supposed to beat, and he's never beat a team that he was supposed to lose to.

LeBron is the better player, but you can't say the same thing about him. Again, why you are expecting a guy with worse 2nd options, and 3rd options of the likes of Trevor Ariza and Chandler Parsons to dudes who played with other Top 5 guys, and had other MVP candidates as a 3rd option?

Their situations aren't even remotely similar. Harden has done the most with the least since i started watching the NBA.Yall just like clowning him because he couldn't beat the Warriors for you.

[NBA4Lyfe]

james harden has SEVERE asthma and that is why he wears down at the end of playoff series. He doesn’t use it as an excuse because harden doesn’t want to be seen as a victim.

the rockets and daryl morey wanted harden to use an asthma pump after the 2017 playoffs( i know this as a fact) harden said no. harden could easily use that as excuse and have it backed by the doctors down here in houston. but he chooses not too

[SerialChiller]

james harden has SEVERE asthma and that is why he wears down at the end of playoff series. He doesn’t use it as an excuse because harden doesn’t want to be seen as a victim.

the rockets and daryl morey wanted harden to use an asthma pump after the 2017 playoffs( i know this as a fact) harden said no. harden could easily use that as excuse and have it backed by the doctors down here in houston. but he chooses not too

As someone who has had severe asthma my entire life, I can tell you first hand that is not how it works...

[web123888]

It’s all good. Dude’s an all time great and a HOFer…just kind of sucks when it absolutely matters (compared to other ATG’s).

He’s still a HOFer. Doncic will be a multiple MVP winner and eventually get his rings. He shows up when it actually matters and at a much younger age. That’s why he’s regarded as superior.

[madskillz8]

james harden has SEVERE asthma and that is why he wears down at the end of playoff series. He doesn’t use it as an excuse because harden doesn’t want to be seen as a victim.

the rockets and daryl morey wanted harden to use an asthma pump after the 2017 playoffs( i know this as a fact) harden said no. harden could easily use that as excuse and have it backed by the doctors down here in houston. but he chooses not too

As someone who has had severe asthma my entire life, I can tell you first hand that is not how it works...

"the asthma game"

[tcheco]

Harden lovers are non stop, even after **** the bed.

He was the worst player in his team yesterday, and that's including westbrook's 2-11 shooting night. No excuse, he can't consistenly carry his team, and that's not an offense, few stars can do this. Harden simply isn't that level of superstar, of top 5 in the league, and that's ok.

[NZB2323]

KD/Russ - before he was a star
CP3 - got hurt in year one, was a shell of himself in year 2.
Embiid - missed games and was bad.

I'm sorry but yes Lebron has had better support. No clue why we are comparing the two given Lebron is on another 2 levels than Harden. But Harden hasn't gotten to play with 2011 Wade, didn't have a Bosh as a 3rd, and didn't have Irving or AD either. Two things can be true. Harden hasn't had the talent of teammates who were also healthy that Lebron has had and Lebron is a completely other worldly better player.

Harden had a team that was built to contend from the moment he stepped in the league. When he went to Houston, he had Dwight Howard along with a very good team surrounding him, and that was followed up with Chris Paul. And I’m sorry, are we going to ignore Brooklyn? Are we going to ignore Philly? Harden never had a player the caliber of 2011 Wade? Utter nonsense, he literally had a teammate win MVP while playing with him. And you want to go the route of injuries… Wade was hobbled two years into playing with LeBron. LeBron lost both Irving AND Love to injuries in the playoffs in his first year playing with them. In the second year, Love got concussed in the finals. And don’t even get me started on AD.

There is one thing you said here which is correct, and that’s that Harden is not on LeBron’s level as a player. THAT is the difference.

You are being disingenuous bringing up OKC. That year should be looked at as a positive of his career, not something that detracts it. That was a bunch of teenagers making it to the finals going against the first real Superteam of the modern era. How are you putting that on Harden?

Dwight? Post-back surgery Dwight that was a shell of himself? His 2nd option o offense being Chandler Parsons?

MVP Joel? Why doesn't he get the Heat for his game 6 and 7 performance, why is it James? No one clowning Kyrie or Bam when their teams couldn't pull through, why Harden?

HOU you have a point, until you realize the only team that knocked him out of the playoffs was Kawhi pre injury Spurs, and the Warriors

BRK? Where Kyrie didn't play, and both got hurt in the playoffs?

How about this, what series did James Harden lose, that his team was the favorite to win? None, literally not a single series. James Harden has never lost to a team he was supposed to beat, and he's never beat a team that he was supposed to lose to.

LeBron is the better player, but you can't say the same thing about him. Again, why you are expecting a guy with worse 2nd options, and 3rd options of the likes of Trevor Ariza and Chandler Parsons to dudes who played with other Top 5 guys, and had other MVP candidates as a 3rd option?

Their situations aren't even remotely similar. Harden has done the most with the least since i started watching the NBA.Yall just like clowning him because he couldn't beat the Warriors for you.

Weren’t the 76ers favored to beat the Heat in 2022?

2014 he has HCA against the Trailblazers and loses game 7 at home.

Dwight, Dame, and Aldridge all ended the series with a higher GmSc.

[Iwasawitness]

james harden has SEVERE asthma and that is why he wears down at the end of playoff series. He doesn’t use it as an excuse because harden doesn’t want to be seen as a victim.

the rockets and daryl morey wanted harden to use an asthma pump after the 2017 playoffs( i know this as a fact) harden said no. harden could easily use that as excuse and have it backed by the doctors down here in houston. but he chooses not too

[NBA4Lyfe]

james harden has SEVERE asthma and that is why he wears down at the end of playoff series. He doesn’t use it as an excuse because harden doesn’t want to be seen as a victim.

the rockets and daryl morey wanted harden to use an asthma pump after the 2017 playoffs( i know this as a fact) harden said no. harden could easily use that as excuse and have it backed by the doctors down here in houston. but he chooses not too

As someone who has had severe asthma my entire life, I can tell you first hand that is not how it works...

"the asthma game"

7 points and still destroying the mavs.. was beating that ass so much made luka start crying about injuries and being sick haha. Reminds me of when the media would claim steph curry had a hurt wrist/knee/ankle anytime he played like crap in the playoffs..

wait so luka goes from being praised for his defense in game 2 and 3 by bill simmons/tim legler/jason timpf, and their ilk to crying about injuries and being sick a game later haha

aye man yall can stay over on that side with the weak excuse making athletes.. harden would never make excuses about the garbage refs and the nba media being againist him even though he would have tons of proof to make a case. meanwhile you got overrated bums like jaylen brown crying their way too all-nba selections.. yall can keep this league, it aint worth nothing, and yall are gonna see that when these david stern guys like durant, lebron, curry, harden, kawhi all of em gon be gone and the nba is going to be what the mlb is today lol

[BmanInBigD]

As someone who has had severe asthma my entire life, I can tell you first hand that is not how it works...

"the asthma game"

7 points and still destroying the mavs.. was beating that ass so much made luka start crying about injuries and being sick haha. Reminds me of when the media would claim steph curry had a hurt wrist/knee/ankle anytime he played like crap in the playoffs..

wait so luka goes from being praised for his defense in game 2 and 3 by bill simmons/tim legler/jason timpf, and their ilk to crying about injuries and being sick a game later haha

aye man yall can stay over on that side with the weak excuse making athletes.. harden would never make excuses about the garbage refs and the nba media being againist him even though he would have tons of proof to make a case. meanwhile you got overrated bums like jaylen brown crying their way too all-nba selections.. yall can keep this league, it aint worth nothing, and yall are gonna see that when these david stern guys like durant, lebron, curry, harden, kawhi all of em gon be gone and the nba is going to be what the mlb is today lol

You should see a doctor. First, Harden flopped and snapped his head back all the way to MVP status partly cuz of the refs. Second, I have asthma and race mountain bikes where my heart is beating at 180 beats a minute for an hour and a half. Your asthma comment is one of the lamest things I’ve ever read on here. And that says a lot.

[NBA4Lyfe]

"the asthma game"

7 points and still destroying the mavs.. was beating that ass so much made luka start crying about injuries and being sick haha. Reminds me of when the media would claim steph curry had a hurt wrist/knee/ankle anytime he played like crap in the playoffs..

wait so luka goes from being praised for his defense in game 2 and 3 by bill simmons/tim legler/jason timpf, and their ilk to crying about injuries and being sick a game later haha

aye man yall can stay over on that side with the weak excuse making athletes.. harden would never make excuses about the garbage refs and the nba media being againist him even though he would have tons of proof to make a case. meanwhile you got overrated bums like jaylen brown crying their way too all-nba selections.. yall can keep this league, it aint worth nothing, and yall are gonna see that when these david stern guys like durant, lebron, curry, harden, kawhi all of em gon be gone and the nba is going to be what the mlb is today lol

You should see a doctor. First, Harden flopped and snapped his head back all the way to MVP status partly cuz of the refs. Second, I have asthma and race mountain bikes where my heart is beating at 180 beats a minute for an hour and a half. Your asthma comment is one of the lamest things I’ve ever read on here. And that says a lot.

harden was never supposed to end up being more emulated/influential than steph curry. He was never in the cards, and to me this has nothing to do with hate for luka( i dont hate the guy at all) I like all players who were influenced by james harden. My hate is more towards the dishonest nba media, and the nba casuals who are in my opinion the least informed knowledgeable fans in comparison to the other 3 sports leagues by a wide margin. NBA fans love ignore facts and stats, in fact id argue they would consider zach lavine a more impactful player than john stockton because " he aint even stretch doe"

Also i may have been wrong on the asthma thing, my point was harden could easily have used that as an excuse especially in the 2018 wcf, when his workload jumped significantly when cp3 got injured. Morey brought in cp3 to take pressure off of harden and it worked until paul got hurt

[Swift21]

james harden has SEVERE asthma and that is why he wears down at the end of playoff series. He doesn’t use it as an excuse because harden doesn’t want to be seen as a victim.

the rockets and daryl morey wanted harden to use an asthma pump after the 2017 playoffs( i know this as a fact) harden said no. harden could easily use that as excuse and have it backed by the doctors down here in houston. but he chooses not too

As someone who has had severe asthma my entire life, I can tell you first hand that is not how it works...

"the asthma game"