Rudy Gobert is the most underrated player in the NBA

[dhsilv2]

I'd give my vote to Julius Randle just because of how many people think he's a genuinely bad player...or at least one that hurts his team more than he helps...but with how much s*** Rudy has gotten I can't argue with the OP.

Randle's 2021 playoffs were bad and there is really no way to argue there was something good in it. I get it's 5 games but at least that rep has some legit validity. And he didn't exactly kill it in 23 either.

[FreeBird23]

No. Gobert still needs to prove that he can stay on the floor when teams go small in the playoffs.

Totally. Phoenix never went small.
That Booker/Beal/Gordon/O'Neale/Durant lineup was HUGE, so it getting killed by Rudy is proof of nothing at all.

The thing is, people were hard on Gobert because he was not able to defend the perimeter.
Your lineup spend most of the time on the perimeter and Rudy was able to stay in front of them.

[dhsilv2]

Totally agree with OP : Antman is the offensive captain while Gobert is the one on defense. He brought (with the coach) a defensive mindset to Minny, and they simply dominate on that end. Who would have thought of Minny as a premiere defensive team honestly ?

Quick story, that many probably haven’t heard.

After a defensive collapse a couple months ago that led to a loss against CHI (don’t sleep on Coby White!), Gobert approached Finch about changing the sides of the bench. The visiting team gets to select which side they sit on, and Gobert wanted Finch to be on the offensive side for the second half. He said he’d continue to captain the defense. Finch was skeptical but agreed, and discovered that it really helps.

My point is that Gobert isn’t just a great defensive player because he’s a 7-1 specimen. He’s a great defensive player because he’s smart, and cares about defense. He has learned how to move his body (defensively at least!), to be in the best possible position, but he has also learned how to help his teammates move defensively too. On the Wolves, he has three great perimeter defenders (Jaden, Ant, NAW), but they would not be as great as they are (especially Ant) without Rudy helping direct them around the floor.

He's not bad moving on offense either...he just has stones for hands.

[dhsilv2]

No. Gobert still needs to prove that he can stay on the floor when teams go small in the playoffs.

Totally. Phoenix never went small.
That Booker/Beal/Gordon/O'Neale/Durant lineup was HUGE, so it getting killed by Rudy is proof of nothing at all.

The thing is, people were hard on Gobert because he was not able to defend the perimeter.
Your lineup spend most of the time on the perimeter and Rudy was able to stay in front of them.

He was never bad at guarding the perimeter. This is the maddening stuff. On the jazz the team often was broken down, embarrassingly, badly at the point of attack. This lead to elite guards/wings driving down hill where Gobert had to rotate over as he was the only defender available. This is a massive defensive breakdown that shouldn't happen in the first place at the rate nor at just how quickly and effortlessly it was consistently done. So because Gobert was the guy always near the ball..he was getting blamed by fans who couldn't grasp what they were seeing.

[Exp0sed]

No. Gobert still needs to prove that he can stay on the floor when teams go small in the playoffs.

what are u talking about?
which team is "going small" in the playoffs in 2024? haha
he doesn't need to prove anything. he was abused on the perimeter in the playoffs in those Utah teams that had 0 POA defense and very weak defenses in general

he's a monster when he can just roam and obviously is too slow to recover after the mistakes of 4 poor defenders around him. no1 is fast or mobile enough to do that, the only one who can come close to that is Wemby and he's a once in a liftime alien

anyway, he's on his way to a first ring, when the Wolves win it (or at least make the finals this seaon) - that kind of talk would be over. in fact it'd be over the second the Wolves defeat the Nuggets in the semis, so just a couple of weeks from now basically

[cgf]

I'd give my vote to Julius Randle just because of how many people think he's a genuinely bad player...or at least one that hurts his team more than he helps...but with how much s*** Rudy has gotten I can't argue with the OP.

Randle's 2021 playoffs were bad and there is really no way to argue there was something good in it. I get it's 5 games but at least that rep has some legit validity. And he didn't exactly kill it in 23 either.

Didn't mean to detract from the thread, but look at the team around him in 21 and keep in mind that he had surgery on his ankle as soon as last season was over. He's turned me into a fan over the years so I'm biased, but I don't think it's unreasonable to give him a mulligan for those first 15 playoff games...especially given that we were better with him on the court last spring than w/o him, and Brunson in particular was much better.

[ShootersShoot]

No. Gobert still needs to prove that he can stay on the floor when teams go small in the playoffs.

what are u talking about?
which team is "going small" in the playoffs in 2024? haha
he doesn't need to prove anything. he was abused on the perimeter in the playoffs in those Utah teams that had 0 POA defense and very weak defenses in general

he's a monster when he can just roam and obviously is too slow to recover after the mistakes of 4 poor defenders around him. no1 is fast or mobile enough to do that, the only one who can come close to that is Wemby and he's a once in a liftime alien

anyway, he's on his way to a first ring, when the Wolves win it (or at least make the finals this seaon) - that kind of talk would be over. in fact it'd be over the second the Wolves defeat the Nuggets in the semis, so just a couple of weeks from now basically

Man, Gobert had legit zero help on the Jazz defensively. He was the only big playing next to Royce O'neal and Bojan in the front court. In contrast, Mcdaniels is elite on the wing and Towns gives them another big who can help on the boards. Reid and KAnderson are quality frontcourt players as well off the bench. Minny's size and length on the perimeter reminds me a bit of the nuggets but with more depth.

[dhsilv2]

I'd give my vote to Julius Randle just because of how many people think he's a genuinely bad player...or at least one that hurts his team more than he helps...but with how much s*** Rudy has gotten I can't argue with the OP.

Randle's 2021 playoffs were bad and there is really no way to argue there was something good in it. I get it's 5 games but at least that rep has some legit validity. And he didn't exactly kill it in 23 either.

Didn't mean to detract from the thread, but look at the team around him in 21 and keep in mind that he had surgery on his ankle as soon as last season was over. He's turned me into a fan over the years so I'm biased, but I don't think it's unreasonable to give him a mulligan for those first 15 playoff games...especially given that we were better with him on the court last spring than w/o him, and Brunson in particular was much better.

I don't think it's unreasonable to give mulligans, but we can both agree by any measure he's not been as good in the playoffs as the regular season. And it isn't some "well this matchup" or "he was good, the results are more team driven". His individual stats were just bad, and that's not an unreasonable reason to be down on him.

[cgf]

Randle's 2021 playoffs were bad and there is really no way to argue there was something good in it. I get it's 5 games but at least that rep has some legit validity. And he didn't exactly kill it in 23 either.

Didn't mean to detract from the thread, but look at the team around him in 21 and keep in mind that he had surgery on his ankle as soon as last season was over. He's turned me into a fan over the years so I'm biased, but I don't think it's unreasonable to give him a mulligan for those first 15 playoff games...especially given that we were better with him on the court last spring than w/o him, and Brunson in particular was much better.

I don't think it's unreasonable to give mulligans, but we can both agree by any measure he's not been as good in the playoffs as the regular season. And it isn't some "well this matchup" or "he was good, the results are more team driven". His individual stats were just bad, and that's not an unreasonable reason to be down on him.

The efficiency was hideous with unimpressive raw numbers...but his impact #s were still positive, at least once he was no longer asked to be his team's 1st, 2nd, and 3rd option

So even if you are down on him, it's just not true that we're a better team without him. Like, even as limited as he was by his ankle last spring, I'd still love to add that player next to Jalen right now...nevermind the player he was before getting hurt this season.

[DelAbbot]

I still remember Clippers ran 5 out on Utah in the playoffs and Gobert couldn't come out to contest a three or punish the Clipper's small ball 5 out lineup with Batum guarding him

[cgf]

I still remember Clippers ran 5 out on Utah in the playoffs and Gobert couldn't come out to contest a three or punish the Clipper's small ball 5 out lineup with Batum guarding him

Utah also had crap defenders around him in that series.

[pace31]

I still remember Clippers ran 5 out on Utah in the playoffs and Gobert couldn't come out to contest a three or punish the Clipper's small ball 5 out lineup with Batum guarding him

That whole series was just a colossal failure from the Jazz, culminating in that game 6 debacle where we were up 20+. Terrible defense from the wings, like you said didn't punish the small ball of the Clips when the Jazz had the ball, Quin not making adjustments, and even though Rudy was left on an island to defend pretty much everywhere he needed to realize that Mann was torching them. At some point you have to go away from the gameplan and just defend tighter on someone who has a hot hand. He should've contested Mann more and if Mann ends up finding cutters to the basket so be it, but you can't just let a hot hand continue to take wide open 3's

[Texas Chuck]

Let's pretend this Gobert should be guarding the 3 pt line narrative has any validity (it doesn't). Fine, he's not as good as Maxi Kleber at defending the 3-pt line. Meanwhile teams take a significant hit in shots in the paint and their effectiveness on those shots when Gobert in on the court. Teams get less open 3's when Rudy is on the court because weakside defenders leave the corners less because Gobert does such an outstanding job protecting the paint.

This narrative is like sure Steph is the best shooter of all-time and sure his gravity creates a ton of 4-3 opportunities for his teammates, but he's not as good as Clint Capela finishing lobs so how good is he offensively really?

Guys, we have metrics. They universally tell us that Gobert and Draymond have been the best defenders of the past decade and overwhelmingly tell us Gobert is the best interior defender. And we know that despite the increase in 3-pt attempts that paint defense is still far and away the most important thing in part even because the best quality 3's come when defenses get broken down and teams get put into rotation. Gobert lessens that meaningfully.

Oh but one time I saw him late on a close out on a 3 so he sucks.... No guys, you are doing it wrong and you are buying into some media narrative by people who don't like him because of COVID, etc.

[NZB2323]

I still remember Clippers ran 5 out on Utah in the playoffs and Gobert couldn't come out to contest a three or punish the Clipper's small ball 5 out lineup with Batum guarding him

The Clippers were blowing past their defenders and Gobert can’t guard the paint, the 3 point line, and multiple defenders all by himself.

That’s like saying LeBron in 2014 was a bad defensive player because he couldn’t stop the 2014 Spurs from scoring.

[Rishkar]

No. Gobert still needs to prove that he can stay on the floor when teams go small in the playoffs.

what are u talking about?
which team is "going small" in the playoffs in 2024? haha
he doesn't need to prove anything. he was abused on the perimeter in the playoffs in those Utah teams that had 0 POA defense and very weak defenses in general

he's a monster when he can just roam and obviously is too slow to recover after the mistakes of 4 poor defenders around him. no1 is fast or mobile enough to do that, the only one who can come close to that is Wemby and he's a once in a liftime alien

anyway, he's on his way to a first ring, when the Wolves win it (or at least make the finals this seaon) - that kind of talk would be over. in fact it'd be over the second the Wolves defeat the Nuggets in the semis, so just a couple of weeks from now basically

Man, Gobert had legit zero help on the Jazz defensively. He was the only big playing next to Royce O'neal and Bojan in the front court. In contrast, Mcdaniels is elite on the wing and Towns gives them another big who can help on the boards. Reid and KAnderson are quality frontcourt players as well off the bench. Minny's size and length on the perimeter reminds me a bit of the nuggets but with more depth.

Royce was pretty clearly our second best defender. Derrick Favors was third. Old Mike Conley was our fourth best. Joe Ingles was fifth. It's a miracle that we had a top 10 defense that year

[AbeVigodaLive]

I still remember Clippers ran 5 out on Utah in the playoffs and Gobert couldn't come out to contest a three or punish the Clipper's small ball 5 out lineup with Batum guarding him

The Clippers were blowing past their defenders and Gobert can’t guard the paint, the 3 point line, and multiple defenders all by himself.

Personally, I think Gobert's inability to hurt the Clippers on the offensive end vs. shorter defenders was a bigger problem. I'll let the Utah folks chime in on why the Jazz struggled to find him... or he struggled to do anything when they did.
Gobert took only 36 shots over 6 games. Other interesting stats:

- Starting PG, Mike Conley, missed the first 5 games of the series... and played arguably the worst game of his career returning from a hamstring injury in the legendary Game 6. (1 - 8 fg with 6 TOs).
- Terance Mann destroyed Gobert. Was that because Gobert couldn't guard him? Or wouldn't? Or was it the strategy? Terance Mann had taken 115 three pointers in 115 NBA games up that point. He hadn't made more than 2 in any of those 115 games.
- Mann had taken only 3 in the 7-game 1st rd series vs. Dallas.
- He was 1 - 7 on three pointers in the previous two games vs. the Jazz.
- Mann has played in 41 playoff games. He has made more than 3 three pointers only that one time. He's failed to make a single three pointer 27 times.
- Mann has now played in 386 NBA games. He has made more than 4 three pointers in a game only one other time (5).

So when we look back at that series... what's more likely? Did it prove that Gobert couldn't defend? Or that Terance Mann simply had a career night?

[TimberKat]

I still remember Clippers ran 5 out on Utah in the playoffs and Gobert couldn't come out to contest a three or punish the Clipper's small ball 5 out lineup with Batum guarding him

The Clippers were blowing past their defenders and Gobert can’t guard the paint, the 3 point line, and multiple defenders all by himself.

Personally, I think Gobert's inability to hurt the Clippers on the offensive end vs. shorter defenders was a bigger problem. I'll let the Utah folks chime in on why the Jazz struggled to find him... or he struggled to do anything when they did.
Gobert took only 36 shots over 6 games. Other interesting stats:

- Starting PG, Mike Conley, missed the first 5 games of the series... and played arguably the worst game of his career returning from a hamstring injury in the legendary Game 6. (1 - 8 fg with 6 TOs).
- Terance Mann destroyed Gobert. Was that because Gobert couldn't guard him? Or wouldn't? Or was it the strategy? Terance Mann had taken 115 three pointers in 115 NBA games up that point. He hadn't made more than 2 in any of those 115 games.
- Mann had taken only 3 in the 7-game 1st rd series vs. Dallas.
- He was 1 - 7 on three pointers in the previous two games vs. the Jazz.
- Mann has played in 41 playoff games. He has made more than 3 three pointers only that one time. He's failed to make a single three pointer 27 times.
- Mann has now played in 386 NBA games. He has made more than 4 three pointers in a game only one other time (5).

So when we look back at that series... what's more likely? Did it prove that Gobert couldn't defend? Or that Terance Mann simply had a career night?

Yes, you have to figure out how to use him on offense so he is not an liability. If you figure out how to use his screens and feed him enough dunks to keep the defense honest, and he keep shooting FT at the current rate, then he is definitely very underrated.

[dhsilv2]

The Clippers were blowing past their defenders and Gobert can’t guard the paint, the 3 point line, and multiple defenders all by himself.

Personally, I think Gobert's inability to hurt the Clippers on the offensive end vs. shorter defenders was a bigger problem. I'll let the Utah folks chime in on why the Jazz struggled to find him... or he struggled to do anything when they did.
Gobert took only 36 shots over 6 games. Other interesting stats:

- Starting PG, Mike Conley, missed the first 5 games of the series... and played arguably the worst game of his career returning from a hamstring injury in the legendary Game 6. (1 - 8 fg with 6 TOs).
- Terance Mann destroyed Gobert. Was that because Gobert couldn't guard him? Or wouldn't? Or was it the strategy? Terance Mann had taken 115 three pointers in 115 NBA games up that point. He hadn't made more than 2 in any of those 115 games.
- Mann had taken only 3 in the 7-game 1st rd series vs. Dallas.
- He was 1 - 7 on three pointers in the previous two games vs. the Jazz.
- Mann has played in 41 playoff games. He has made more than 3 three pointers only that one time. He's failed to make a single three pointer 27 times.
- Mann has now played in 386 NBA games. He has made more than 4 three pointers in a game only one other time (5).

So when we look back at that series... what's more likely? Did it prove that Gobert couldn't defend? Or that Terance Mann simply had a career night?

Yes, you have to figure out how to use him on offense so he is not an liability. If you figure out how to use his screens and feed him enough dunks to keep the defense honest, and he keep shooting FT at the current rate, then he is definitely very underrated.

Step one is to have a guy who will pass to him on the floor.

[Anticon]

No. Gobert still needs to prove that he can stay on the floor when teams go small in the playoffs.

Unbelievable that this ridiculous narrative is still clinging to life.

Just wait until Denver really goes for it and benches Jokic. Can he handle Gordon at the 5???

But seriously Rudy was overrated for a time (though the arguments about the defensive load he had to bear in Utah are very valid).

Then he went into the usual cycle of being so criticized he became underrated and is now evolving likely to the happy medium where there's a good sense of his impact, limitations and the type of roster he needs to be on to complement him best.