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thinktank wrote:Lunartic wrote:I'm old enough to remember when Donovan Mitchell was considered to be a superstar because of his playoff runs with Utah.
I’m old enough to remember that he never played defense and that I never felt he was a superstar like I do with Ant.
I’m also old enough to compare Ant next to Rudy and Mitchell next to Rudy.
thinktank wrote:Better check his playoff numbers.
And he’s 22!
The guys you mentioned are 5 years older.
tsherkin wrote:The important thing to take away here is that Klomp is wrong.
Esohny wrote:Why are you asking Klomp? "He's" actually a bot that posts random blurbs from a database.
Klomp wrote:I'm putting the tired in retired mod at the moment
OkcSinceSGA wrote:zimpy27 wrote:OkcSinceSGA wrote:
It’s bizarre that he’s liked for things many are hated for (being cocky, trash talk, claiming he’s better than he is all of the time). I personally am highly entertained by it, but other guys doing this get killed by the media and fans. It was eye roll inducing watching him do crotch chops the other day in Phoenix.
The rest of what you said is fair, although I don’t necessarily agree that box score based metrics slight defensive players necessarily. KG for example is top 5 in that metric and wasn’t the best offensive big we’ve seen, but a defense first weapon. KG rates higher than Dirk for example in some prime vs prime years.
Most young guys get liked for being cocky and trash talking, it's all about building them up to stomp on them when they inevitably fail to win a championship by 27. Ant is going to dragged if Wolves don't win a championship, better believe it. We're just not in the phase that is satisfying to you I guess.
Who are you talking about that gets killed for trash talk?
I specifically stated that man defenders don't get picked up well, bigs and help defenders do ok on box score because you pick up rebounds, steals and blocks. But even still KG was at 0.146 at 22, similar to Ant.
KG came in out of high school and similar to Kobe took a few years to really become a positive player. I kinda missed the man defender qualifier, my bad. I’m saying in general guys like Booker, Luka, Embiid, Pat Bev, Draymond get hammered for being “cocky” or trash talk. People root for their downfall when they do it.
Yet with Edwards people supposedly love him for a lot of the same antics. It’s odd how it seems selective in how we react to behaviors based on WHO is doing it. Maybe it’s because he’s the new shiny young toy, but will be turned on in a few years I’m sure.
tsherkin wrote:This isn't hard to answer.
His regular season play is a lot worse than how he's played during the playoffs. And when you look at his playoff metrics, they reflect the large difference in quality of play. When you're a high-volume scorer who is a negative TSAdd kind of guy, you tend not to do that well in overall numbers. When you're a +5.5% rTS guy in the playoffs, things look a little different. He's also shooting over 90% at the line so far in the postseason, and was under 84% in his first season as an 80%+ FT shooter in the RS.
He isn't the playmaker or rebounder we see from Luka, but he's a considerably better defender and he's been a monster in 3 straight playoff series. We'll see what happens in the second round, but like, he's been a beast. He's night and day on offense during the postseason to date in his career. In the RS, he's a bleh volume scorer under league-average efficiency, more exciting than high-impact. And then the playoffs start and he does this.
EmpireFalls wrote:Ant gets a lot of help that's why. He is basically Western Conference Tatum.
76Shots wrote:Because basketball is played on the court and not on an Excel spreadsheet.
famicommander wrote:He's playing next to the DPOY, an All-Star, the 6th Man of the Year, a solid veteran point guard, and good role players with a good coach on top of it. He's going to have some of his numbers naturally deflated and some of his numbers inflated because of the quality surrounding him.
Lunartic wrote:I'm old enough to remember when Donovan Mitchell was considered to be a superstar because of his playoff runs with Utah.
tsherkin wrote:The important thing to take away here is that Klomp is wrong.
Esohny wrote:Why are you asking Klomp? "He's" actually a bot that posts random blurbs from a database.
Klomp wrote:I'm putting the tired in retired mod at the moment
dk1115 wrote:
Nikola Jokic, who is probably the best player in the league, isn't hard to watch, but I think I can name a good 30-40 players I'd rather watch than him.
runtmc wrote:+/- stats are notoriously very, very noisy, meaning they can jump around a lot year to year (which to the creator's credit, is likely why they are also showing 3 and 5 year metrics), they can have issues with correlation (eg if you and another player are always on the court together, it can be difficult to separate out who is having an impact) and without knowing more about methodology it would be hard to say much about accuracy.
I havent seen this particular site before, but I can just say any metric that has Kentavious Caldwell Pope as the 4th best player in the NBA and Jokic 11th is probably not particularly accurate (and probably suffering from correlation issues as mentioned) -- along the same lines, Naz Reid, Mike Conley, and Ant are all rated higher defensively than Gobert, which also doesnt pass the smell test.
Also, quite a number of other adjusted plus minus advanced stats dont have Edwards nearly as high -- EPM has him 22nd, LEBRON has him 52nd, etc.
OkcSinceSGA wrote:Face of the league. Superstar. Best SG in the league. Things I’m seeing a lot right now. He’s basically the league darling right now. People talk about him like he’s the next Jordan. You even have insane people trying to partake in revisionist history and saying he’s in the same tier this season as Luka and SGA.
But something I find odd is he’s not well liked by impact metrics. SGA and Luka for example are .250-.270 WS/48 players which is HOF/MVP tier. Ant is at .130, which is literally not even all star tier basically. Normally players at that level are high end starters, to low end all stars. .100 is a league average player, .150 area is typically an all star, .200 is a superstar, .250-.300 is usually a first ballot HOF/Multiple time MVP (guys like MJ, Jokic, Wilt, LeBron, KG etc).
EPM has SGA and Luka at #2 and #3 for example with 8.8 and 7.9. Edwards is at 4.2 which is ranked 22nd in the league after guys like FVV. Why is his hype/reputation so much better than his impact metrics?
dhsilv2 wrote:famicommander wrote:He's playing next to the DPOY, an All-Star, the 6th Man of the Year, a solid veteran point guard, and good role players with a good coach on top of it. He's going to have some of his numbers naturally deflated and some of his numbers inflated because of the quality surrounding him.
Or because Gobert is actually their best player...
tsherkin wrote:The important thing to take away here is that Klomp is wrong.
Esohny wrote:Why are you asking Klomp? "He's" actually a bot that posts random blurbs from a database.
Klomp wrote:I'm putting the tired in retired mod at the moment
life_saver wrote:dhsilv2 wrote:famicommander wrote:He's playing next to the DPOY, an All-Star, the 6th Man of the Year, a solid veteran point guard, and good role players with a good coach on top of it. He's going to have some of his numbers naturally deflated and some of his numbers inflated because of the quality surrounding him.
Or because Gobert is actually their best player...
maybe in RS but not in playoffs..Ant is Wolves best player when he is locked in, something that he doesn't do consistently throughout RS.
life_saver wrote:Thing is actual advanced stats show Ant as top15 players this RS, not box score stats like BPM. RAPTOR has Ant as 11th best player this RS
https://neilpaine.substack.com/p/nba-estimated-raptor-player-ratings
