Post Mortem 2023/24 - Phoenix Suns (Eliminated in 1st Round)

[bisme37]

────────────────────────────
2023-24 record: 49-33
2nd in Pacific Division, 6th in West, swept by MIN

Off Rtg: 117.6 (9th)
Def Rtg: 114.6 (13th)
Net Rtg: +3.1 (9th)

────────────────────────────
KEY DECISIONS?
────────────────────────────
Run it back or tear it down or do something in between?

────────────────────────────
PAYROLL | Link
────────────────────────────


(From Bobby Marks)

────────────────────────────
FREE AGENTS
────────────────────────────
• Royce O'Neale
• Eric Gordon (P)
• Josh Okogie (P)
• Bol Bol
• Drew Eubanks (P)

────────────────────────────
DRAFT PICKS
────────────────────────────
• 2024 - Own #22
• 2025 - To BRK
• 2026 - Least favorable of PHX, ORL, WAS 1-8 and MEM; and more favorable of PHX and WAS 1-8 to WAS [or neither to WAS if WAS not conveyable]; and more favorable of (i) ORL and (ii) less favorable of PHX and WAS 1-8 [or (ii) PHX only if WAS not conveyable] to ORL; and more favorable of (i) MEM and (ii) least / less favorable of PHX, ORL and WAS 1-8 to MEM if WAS does not convey 1st round pick to NYK in 2025; or Least favorable of PHX, ORL, WAS and MEM; and more favorable of PHX and WAS to WAS; and more favorable of (i) ORL and (ii) less favorable of PHX and WAS to ORL; and more favorable of (i) MEM and (ii) least favorable of PHX, ORL and WAS to MEM if WAS conveys 1st round pick to NYK in 2025 (via WAS swap for PHX; via ORL swap for PHX or WAS; via MEM swap for PHX, WAS or ORL)
• 2027 - To BRK
• 2028 - Least favorable of PHX, PHL 9-30 if PHL does not convey 1st round pick to BRK in 2027 and if PHL has conveyed 1st round pick to OKC by 2026, BRK and WAS; two most / more favorable of PHX, PHL 9-30 if conveyed to BRK, and BRK to BRK; more favorable of (i) WAS and (ii) least / less favorable of PHX, PHL 9-30 if conveyed to BRK, and BRK to WAS (via BRK swap of BRK or PHL for PHX; via WAS swap for PHX, BRK or PHL)
• 2029 - To BRK
• 2030 - Least favorable of PHX, WAS and MEM; more favorable of PHX and WAS to WAS; more favorable of (i) MEM and (ii) less favorable of PHX and WAS to MEM (via WAS swap for PHX; via MEM swap for PHX or WAS)

────────────────────────────

[xxSnEaKyPxx]

Sounds like KD’s camp is ready to force another trade.

[Klomp]

Would I be crazy to think Phoenix will make a big move in the offseason, such as trading Kevin Durant to New Orleans? I'm picturing a player package of McCollum (they can call him their "point guard"), Nance (post depth) and Trey Murphy (3-point sniper and "potential") plus I have no idea what picks New Orleans can offer.

[Godymas]

a starting line-up of Devin Booker, Bradley Beal, Grayson Allen, Kevin Durant, and Jusuf Nurkic

that is what the Suns have locked themselves into

Guys like Eric Gordon and Drew Eubanks will likely walk. Josh Okogie might come back because realistically who's going to throw him a ton of money.

Vogel seems to be shouldering the blame (again) as if he's supposed to actually save a team that is built this poorly.

It's not the fact that these 3 guys could NEVER potentially beat out teams off of pure offense, but the lack of a true point guard to tie everything together is the bigger issue.

I mean to be honest, this team needs a Draymond Green, desperately. I don't think Draymond would ever be available though, but if there was a way to send Beal to Golden State and somehow get Draymond back, the only reason you do this is because Golden State is turning a new leaf and Klay is also out the door. Curry obviously stays in, he gets a younger co-star in Beal with a solid basketball fit, the Warriors lose Draymond but they hold onto CP3.

But is it really possible to blame the FO? Pretty sure the talks were that the FO wanted to hold onto their young guys but the ownership butted in and said "get us the stars now" and they made these moves. No one legitimately thought this team NEEDED Bradley Beal, no one was thinking "oh yeah the Suns should trade for Bradley Beal" and yet they did it.

[madmaxmedia]

Maybe they can get insanely lucky with their 1st round #22 pick this year? I mean I'm half-joking but half not, that would seem to be the most possible way to improve at some position this offseason (point guard??)

I'm not going to try to decipher those swap scenarios, but there seem to be more ways for them to go bad than half-decent for Phoenix. There seems to be too many other teams involved for any of them to actually turn out 'good'.

[NCHeels2008]

Would I be crazy to think Phoenix will make a big move in the offseason, such as trading Kevin Durant to New Orleans? I'm picturing a player package of McCollum (they can call him their "point guard"), Nance (post depth) and Trey Murphy (3-point sniper and "potential") plus I have no idea what picks New Orleans can offer.

I'd rather trade Ingram than Murphy if I were NO

[DOT]

I mean, I just don't see how they can improve

Booker is who he is (not saying he's bad, just that this is his ceiling in all likelihood), Beal and KD are only gonna get worse from here, they don't have anything to trade, and they don't have anyone of particular note in terms of prospects

Maybe they get favorable matchups next year, but I struggle to see this team make it out of the 2nd round as constructed.

[Clav]

Nassir Little (6.5M), Grayson Allen (15.6M) are guaranteed and are the most movable mid-level contracts. Nurkic too, but he's valuable for his size right now, that's a question to answer - will Nurk and his 18M salary be on this team next season ?

+ $11.5M of 4 players likely to opt-in (Lee, Gordon, Eubanks, Okogie). - all have player options. I'd be surprise to see them all decline.
+ David Roddy Team Option (which I'd pick up) = $2.8M

There's cash there to maneuver the roster. This team was built to be an offensive problem on the court and it was shut down in dramatic fashion. A strategy change is needed, and most importantly is roster fit. The roster needs a primary/secondary initatior and a swing/weakside defender ideally being a C or PF. Royce O'neal, Okogie, and Bol Bol in theory were the defending core. O'neal and Bol are UFA this summer. Okogie has a player option.


Also, I don't think Vogel makes it through the offseason as the coach. This is the exact situation how coaches get fired. Talented core that underperformed, must be the coach not the players!

The biggest issue though is that salary wise and asset wise PHX is really in a bind. They will need to get creative or purchase 2nd round picks for cash this draft to get cost-controlled players that are hungry to play defense and fill the roster gaps.

[Chuck Everett]

Booker should try to force a trade to Orlando to play with Paolo, Franz and Suggs. The other two (Beal and Durant) can rot.

[Swish1906]

Accept reality. Lost Game 5 and 6 last year with 16 and 25 points difference, got swept this year with just one game being actually close. Durant cant be a franchise player anymore and Booker will never be one.

I know true tanking makes no sense with their picks gone. But trade Durant and Booker for young talents/picks and then play them and hope for the best in 2-3 years. It sucks sending your high picks to other teams but otherwise its a dead man walking team anyway...

[Lenneth]

The new owner made their bet, and I expect them to go for it at least one more season. I mean, what other choices do they have? They can't rebuild with their picks till 2030, and Beal is untradable with his no-trade clause and 15% trade kicker. They might get something by trading KD, but it won't be anywhere near close to what they traded. And if they do trade KD, they might as well trade Booker for a complete rebuild... without their first-rounders. With everything considered, I don't think they have much choice but to go for the championship one more season.

[itrsteve]

I'd start early on some reverse blockbusters

1. Convince Beal that he 100% would love to live in NYC and attempt to ship him for Ben Simmons (2 less remaining contractual years) + whatever trash Brooklyn wants to dump

2. Do everything in your power to find a home for Durant. I'd love a 3-way back to OKC.

Regardless the goal needs to be dumping boat anchor contracts for shorter boat anchors and not delaying the inevitable. Good news is these guys aren't damaged goods via injury.

• 2026 - Least favorable of PHX, ORL, WAS 1-8 and MEM; and more favorable of PHX and WAS 1-8 to WAS [or neither to WAS if WAS not conveyable]; and more favorable of (i) ORL and (ii) less favorable of PHX and WAS 1-8 [or (ii) PHX only if WAS not conveyable] to ORL; and more favorable of (i) MEM and (ii) least / less favorable of PHX, ORL and WAS 1-8 to MEM if WAS does not convey 1st round pick to NYK in 2025; or Least favorable of PHX, ORL, WAS and MEM; and more favorable of PHX and WAS to WAS; and more favorable of (i) ORL and (ii) less favorable of PHX and WAS to ORL; and more favorable of (i) MEM and (ii) least favorable of PHX, ORL and WAS to MEM if WAS conveys 1st round pick to NYK in 2025 (via WAS swap for PHX; via ORL swap for PHX or WAS; via MEM swap for PHX, WAS or ORL)

I didn't have a difficult time understanding that one at all.

[UcanUwill]

Firing front office is asinine and invalid option, most of the key moves that shaped the team were forced by ownership. Owner cant fire himself.

[SkyBill40]

Firing front office is asinine and invalid option, most of the key moves that shaped the team were forced by ownership. Owner cant fire himself.

Right. But Jones isn't a good GM by any stretch of the imagination and firing him will allow Isiah Thomas to be formally placed into the role he already holds.

Ishbia and Thomas straight up boned this team. All the hope of an owner who would spend on good talent was immediately dashed by the utterly ridiculous move to acquire Durant, followed by another batch of lunacy in getting Beal.

We're screwed. There's nothing else to say but the truth.

Sent from my [Samsung Z4 Fold] using RealGM mobile app

[Childs]

Watch on YouTube

Devin how frustrated are you for Kevin right now?

[Black Jack]

They desperately need to trade KD and Booker for picks+prospects and rebuild.

If Bradley won't waive his NTC, demote him to the G League and fine him if he refuses to report and ride school buses to Iowa or whatever. gtfo.

[KokoKaizer]

Spoiler:

────────────────────────────
2023-24 record: 49-33
2nd in Pacific Division, 6th in West, swept by MIN

Off Rtg: 117.6 (9th)
Def Rtg: 114.6 (13th)
Net Rtg: +3.1 (9th)

────────────────────────────
KEY DECISIONS?
────────────────────────────
Run it back or tear it down or do something in between?

────────────────────────────
PAYROLL | Link
────────────────────────────


(From Bobby Marks)

────────────────────────────
FREE AGENTS
────────────────────────────
• Royce O'Neale
• Eric Gordon (P)
• Josh Okogie (P)
• Bol Bol
• Drew Eubanks (P)

────────────────────────────
DRAFT PICKS
────────────────────────────
• 2024 - Own #22
• 2025 - To BRK
• 2026 - Least favorable of PHX, ORL, WAS 1-8 and MEM; and more favorable of PHX and WAS 1-8 to WAS [or neither to WAS if WAS not conveyable]; and more favorable of (i) ORL and (ii) less favorable of PHX and WAS 1-8 [or (ii) PHX only if WAS not conveyable] to ORL; and more favorable of (i) MEM and (ii) least / less favorable of PHX, ORL and WAS 1-8 to MEM if WAS does not convey 1st round pick to NYK in 2025; or Least favorable of PHX, ORL, WAS and MEM; and more favorable of PHX and WAS to WAS; and more favorable of (i) ORL and (ii) less favorable of PHX and WAS to ORL; and more favorable of (i) MEM and (ii) least favorable of PHX, ORL and WAS to MEM if WAS conveys 1st round pick to NYK in 2025 (via WAS swap for PHX; via ORL swap for PHX or WAS; via MEM swap for PHX, WAS or ORL)
• 2027 - To BRK
• 2028 - Least favorable of PHX, PHL 9-30 if PHL does not convey 1st round pick to BRK in 2027 and if PHL has conveyed 1st round pick to OKC by 2026, BRK and WAS; two most / more favorable of PHX, PHL 9-30 if conveyed to BRK, and BRK to BRK; more favorable of (i) WAS and (ii) least / less favorable of PHX, PHL 9-30 if conveyed to BRK, and BRK to WAS (via BRK swap of BRK or PHL for PHX; via WAS swap for PHX, BRK or PHL)
• 2029 - To BRK
• 2030 - Least favorable of PHX, WAS and MEM; more favorable of PHX and WAS to WAS; more favorable of (i) MEM and (ii) less favorable of PHX and WAS to MEM (via WAS swap for PHX; via MEM swap for PHX or WAS)

────────────────────────────

Bisme, can you make a one sticky thread for all post mortem thread ? That would be awesome

[benson13]

I can't think of an NBA team in history that has been in a situation like this. They're in salary hell, they don't have draft picks, and they just got swept out of the first round with everyone healthy. There's really nothing they can do to improve, and tanking isn't an option.

[Fundamentals21]

Booker is their only bright spot.I don't know what they were thinking with draft picks time, with picks up 2029 owed to the Nets. Should've kept Ayton IMO to see if there was a legit run at a title. The Chris Paul team was a finalist but they made some bad moves following that run. Beal and Durant are useless at this point, and without any good trades, they could be headed to bottom of the NBA pretty fast.

[phanman]

Beal was a terrible move.

This entire off season was a disaster. I get that Monty got exposed and Paul got injured in the playoffs again but damn what a series og bad trades and acquisitions. They did CP dirty and i'd like to think this is the bad karma they deserve. They sold their soul to bring in KD and then double & triple downed with the Beal and Ayton deals.

Ayton was unhappy in Phoenix but whoever thought that Nurkic was the answer after watching him in Portland needs to be fired. Likewise with Royce O'Neale. The last thing this team needed was another undersized shaky defender & floor spacer. I just think this team would have been much better the entire year if they had simply just ran back last seasons team.

Phoenix is too invested to do anything else. Beal has a NTC, they gave up too much to throw the towel in on Durant and Booker is Phoenix at this point with everybody from the Finals team now gone. Allen was underwhelming in G1 and then got injured in G2 leaving him unable to shake his playoff reputation and nobody is touching Nurkic or Little's bloated deals to alter this team in any meaningful way. They are 2nd apron team so they can't aggregate salaries, take back more money or use any exceptions including the MLE this offseason. Outside of their FRP this season, all of ther draft capital I believe is exhausted including all of the 2nds they dealt. They'll fire Vogel because it's the only option they have and they'll go into next season under the guise of new leadership to take them over the hump.