Do people actually buy the "American Born" player narrative?

[EmpireFalls]

I basically think it’s as simple as this: American born players grew up and learned life through American eyes speaking English and can transmit their full personalities easier than guys speaking their second language can. I always get the feeling with Joker or Luka that they’re funnier in Serbian or Slovenian, especially Jokic who has this entire private life in Serbia with horses and a family that we never see.

With Americans they’re ingrained in our culture, our people, our language in a way that foreign guys just aren’t.

It’s not even a race thing just it’s easier to connect and relate to a guy from Baltimore than Brazil.

So if you have two equally good players the American one will likely be easier to market.

[beeshma]

Because of the way that Embiid complains of unfair treatment, it tricks other black Americans into perceiving him as one of their own.

LMAO, WHAT?

I'll clarify what I meant. Complaining (also protesting, resisting, etc.) against unfair treatment is a part of black American culture. Ever heard of civil rights? DEI? Didn't Jay-Z just make a speech about this at the Grammys?

Let me take you back to last year... Angel Reese had a quick rise to fame last year based on her play and her personality. But, remember that in her first moment of fame she complained of unfair treatment. That resonated with the black community and boosted her fame to a much higher level.

[shi-woo]

I think race is an important part of this. Particularly if someone is perceived as being a member of the black vs. white culture in America.

If you're not American, you can think of it as a form of tribalism or nationalism. You might only frequent businesses owned by your own tribe, or marry within a tribe.

In America, the black community prefers to elevate black heroes, and listen to black leaders. That's a form of tribalism. It starts with skin color so Jokic is out. It continues to cultural identifiers and behaviors. By this treatment, Giannis is perceived as European and he is out, while someone like Joel Embiid is perceived as a black american. Because of the way that Embiid complains of unfair treatment, it tricks other black Americans into perceiving him as one of their own.

The white community in America also displays this preference. There is a type of white American player who generates outsize fan appreciation. Kirk Hinrich is a great example. He is perceived to embody a white culture ideal of behavior.

I don’t buy this at all. Basketball fans love players that are exciting at basketball. Simple. Sports specifically can reduce the emphasis on race, since fans want players that help their team win, regardless.

I live in Minnesota, prominently white, and our favorite players are Garnett and Edwards. It’s their performance and their personality. I don’t know any white Wolves fan who likes Kevin Love more, simply because he’s white.

Last years MVP race? It was kind of an embarrassment

The arguments regarding the head coaching search every single offseason? Steve Nash hiring for example was not viewed in the same way as Billups, Lue, Montey ect ect All ex-players, only one of them got demonized for getting hired

I don't want to go down that path like mentioned in the OP, but It's kind of hard to ignore this especially over the last half decade, and especially when it comes to European/foreign players, which is what I wanted the thread to be about

[sikma42]

I think race is an important part of this. Particularly if someone is perceived as being a member of the black vs. white culture in America.

If you're not American, you can think of it as a form of tribalism or nationalism. You might only frequent businesses owned by your own tribe, or marry within a tribe.

In America, the black community prefers to elevate black heroes, and listen to black leaders. That's a form of tribalism. It starts with skin color so Jokic is out. It continues to cultural identifiers and behaviors. By this treatment, Giannis is perceived as European and he is out, while someone like Joel Embiid is perceived as a black american. Because of the way that Embiid complains of unfair treatment, it tricks other black Americans into perceiving him as one of their own.

The white community in America also displays this preference. There is a type of white American player who generates outsize fan appreciation. Kirk Hinrich is a great example. He is perceived to embody a white culture ideal of behavior.

I don’t buy this at all. Basketball fans love players that are exciting at basketball. Simple. Sports specifically can reduce the emphasis on race, since fans want players that help their team win, regardless.

I live in Minnesota, prominently white, and our favorite players are Garnett and Edwards. It’s their performance and their personality. I don’t know any white Wolves fan who likes Kevin Love more, simply because he’s white.

Last years MVP race? It was kind of an embarrassment

The arguments regarding the head coaching search every single offseason? Steve Nash hiring for example was not viewed in the same way as Billups, Lue, Montey ect ect All ex-players, only one of them got demonized for getting hired

I don't want to go down that path like mentioned in the OP, but It's kind of hard to ignore this especially over the last half decade, and especially when it comes to European/foreign players, which is what I wanted the thread to be about

Lue and Monty were assistant coaches (had experience). Nash was handed the best open job in coaching with 0 experience and we were fed some narrative like he deserved it. Then when he got there he was given a to. Of leeway when he was 100% incompetent. Nash was and still is treated with kid gloves. He’s a horrible coach.



Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

[shrink]

I think race is an important part of this. Particularly if someone is perceived as being a member of the black vs. white culture in America.

If you're not American, you can think of it as a form of tribalism or nationalism. You might only frequent businesses owned by your own tribe, or marry within a tribe.

In America, the black community prefers to elevate black heroes, and listen to black leaders. That's a form of tribalism. It starts with skin color so Jokic is out. It continues to cultural identifiers and behaviors. By this treatment, Giannis is perceived as European and he is out, while someone like Joel Embiid is perceived as a black american. Because of the way that Embiid complains of unfair treatment, it tricks other black Americans into perceiving him as one of their own.

The white community in America also displays this preference. There is a type of white American player who generates outsize fan appreciation. Kirk Hinrich is a great example. He is perceived to embody a white culture ideal of behavior.

I don’t buy this at all. Basketball fans love players that are exciting at basketball. Simple. Sports specifically can reduce the emphasis on race, since fans want players that help their team win, regardless.

I live in Minnesota, prominently white, and our favorite players are Garnett and Edwards. It’s their performance and their personality. I don’t know any white Wolves fan who likes Kevin Love more, simply because he’s white.

Last years MVP race? It was kind of an embarrassment

The arguments regarding the head coaching search every single offseason? Steve Nash hiring for example was not viewed in the same way as Billups, Lue, Montey ect ect All ex-players, only one of them got demonized for getting hired

I don't want to go down that path like mentioned in the OP, but It's kind of hard to ignore this especially over the last half decade, and especially when it comes to European/foreign players, which is what I wanted the thread to be about

I hear you. When Chris Finch was hired over David Vanterpoole, Stephen A Smith called it “racist and the result of white privilege.” But the best thing about sports is that regardless of race or nationality, we get to see objective results. Finch has been the best coach in Wolves history, regardless of his race. We also don’t see major media pumping up either white or black players, or American players over international players - we see them pumping up stars, regardless of race or nationality. It’s how these athletes play the game that matters most.

The US obviously has race issues and isn’t always the most international. And maybe I’m naive, but as it has shown in the past, I feel sports can be a tremendous force for unity, when so many other forces try to further those divides.

[beeshma]

I feel sports can be a tremendous force for unity, when so many other forces try to further those divides.

I totally agree!

[Stone]

My only preference and it ain't really a deal breaker is speaking English. I don't care where anyone comes from. When I watch MMA a lot of the UFC fighters need a translator and it takes longer. But it's Saul Goodman.

[shi-woo]

I don’t buy this at all. Basketball fans love players that are exciting at basketball. Simple. Sports specifically can reduce the emphasis on race, since fans want players that help their team win, regardless.

I live in Minnesota, prominently white, and our favorite players are Garnett and Edwards. It’s their performance and their personality. I don’t know any white Wolves fan who likes Kevin Love more, simply because he’s white.

Last years MVP race? It was kind of an embarrassment

The arguments regarding the head coaching search every single offseason? Steve Nash hiring for example was not viewed in the same way as Billups, Lue, Montey ect ect All ex-players, only one of them got demonized for getting hired

I don't want to go down that path like mentioned in the OP, but It's kind of hard to ignore this especially over the last half decade, and especially when it comes to European/foreign players, which is what I wanted the thread to be about

Lue and Monty were assistant coaches (had experience). Nash was handed the best open job in coaching with 0 experience and we were fed some narrative like he deserved it. Then when he got there he was given a to. Of leeway when he was 100% incompetent. Nash was and still is treated with kid gloves. He’s a horrible coach.



Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

And what was Chauncey Billups? And Lue was literally the guy passing out towels at the end of the bench in Boston for two years, and was given literally the most lucrative head coaching vacancy in the history of the sport (again, a Euro was fired and not given a fair shake, another example of this fake media narrative), so what point were you trying to make?

This is clearly a thing, we as fans don't care about it, but the media certainly does, and pushes it, which is why I made the thread. Media is shoving these fake arguments down our throats when most fans don't care.

Celtic fans literally nicknamed our coach 2nd Row Joe So it's not something fans really care about. If you are good at the job, be it player or coach, you'll find a way to stick around and get the credit you deserve.

That's been my biggest issue with this narrative lately of American Born stars, it's just a new label which detracts from a players actual body of work. In the Ant thread you have people saying things like "He has the chance to be the face of American basketball, and best American superstar," naa Ant has the chance to be the face of the NBA, and a chance to be a world wide superstar.

[BobbyPortisEyes]

I think the word you're looking for is agenda, not narrative. I don't really buy it.. to me the media is more just pushing for a black player regardless of nationality. They'd be fine with Shai or Embiid being the best in the league as well. Ant is the most charismatic and electrifying player out of everyone so I think that plays a bigger factor than him being American.

[sikma42]

Post

[MakeItSplash]

We will see when the Next Hope and projected #1 pick comes into play...Flagg Mania!

Watch on YouTube

[CS707]

OP is right, it comes up a lot. I've never seen actual evidence of someone not liking a certain player because of their country of origin or preferring an American face of the league but it continues to be a conversation. There is a reality in terms of language barriers and commercial marketing but companies tend to be pretty creative in how they navigate that and the NBA itself is only interested in marketing the game. Of course, give a goofball a keyboard and you never know what you're going to get though, so who knows.

[Invictus88]

I love watching and root for NBA players (especially ones playing for my home team) when I watch NBA games.

I love watching and root for players of any nationality (but specifically the ones playing for my home country) when I watch international basketball competition.

Whether or not the players I am rooting for that are on the Team USA squad are American-born or are citizens another way I could care less. If they can hoop then they can hoop.

If these same players from overseas who can't speak a lick of English then try to be on a commercial and I can't understand them then I guess I would like them less *on that commercial*? But it has no bearing on the basketball court.

Do other folks really feel significantly different than this?

I personally thought Jokic was the best player in the NBA last year. He has been for the last several. I was born and grew up here in the states. I'll root against him whenever Team USA plays Serbia.

[Bornstellar]

I really don't care. All I care about is watching basketball. The best player could be from Mars for all I care

[theforumblue]

once you have certain level of talent and success then it's just about personality. NBA has always had non-US players who were top tier. fans dont care. it only affects nba marketing if the player dont want to make an effort to engage the media and fans.

[AbeVigodaLive]

I always thought it was brought up more on Real GM than any place else... because there's simply a higher percentage of international posters.

I'm just one American... but it's simply not a topic that i care much about. Good ball is good ball.

There's also a fine line in how we determine international. Is it only where people are born? Who they qualify to play for in the Olympics? Where their games were developed?

A lot of international guys have spent a lot of time in the U.S. anyway.

[Wingy]

One of the few that voted “yes.”

I really don’t care if all, or the majority, or the best player is American. For me the absolute dearth of American stars does make it feel odd, weird and even a little detached in terms of my ability to recognize the league. Yes, I have a strict, yet thoroughly subjective definition of superstar, but I don’t know as the US has a single one anymore. Just seems strange.

This isn’t some regular, active thought. It’s kinda like Morpheus in being that sliver in your mind. Something I’m very vaguely, barely aware of on the periphery. But it’s there.

Doesn’t mean I dislike guys like Joker, Luka, SGA, etc. They have things I mostly like, and a few I dislike (like any player), but I’m a fan of all of their games and they’re a ton of fun to watch.

It’s a strange yes, but a yes I feel no less. I’m certainly not some xenophobe, and believe more talent and growth of the game is a good thing. E.g. I’ve lived in Europe, actually enjoy football (aka soccer), very much against anti-“foreigner” politics. I’ve been fortunate enough to avoid being your ‘average American’ in terms of life experiences.

However I do honestly think I’d enjoy the many plot lines more if a true American superstar were in the mix to compete with the terrific non-US elite guys. Wouldn’t give a care in the world if they dominated, or lead a dynasty. Just have someone there to compete, and right now there isn’t one from my again, subjective pov.

[Wingy]

I get that Pop kind of started this years ago with his comments, and guys like Luka have stocked that flame, but do people really care if players are foreign or home grown, and if the face of ht league is foreign?

Edit: Because there seems to be confusion to what I'm asking. The narrative in question is that the media and American fans in general are pushing/focusing on certain players based solely on their American nationality.

I just wrote a long post, but I think that’s a big part of what kinda weirds me out…that there is no face of the league right now. I’ve never seen it be ‘by committee’ like it seems to be now. Not objectively a negative, just something I’ve never experienced. That void feels strange.

Magic/Bird -> Michael -> Kobe/Shaq -> Lebron -> ???

The only guy coming close to dominating right now is Joker, and he gives off an air that he doesn’t really care all that much about basketball. Part of me loves that “every man,” this is just a job attitude. A large part of me also hates it.

I first read your OP very quickly and missed the bottom part and the edit. It seems obvious why American media would push American players in America.

The die hard fans? Like the people here? I don’t think we care that much. Even a person like me who does care does so in a way that I feel is a bit nuanced. I think it may impact your casual, average fan more, and there may be fewer of them as a result right now.

Like, Anthony Edwards’s ridiculous dunks are a lot easier to peddle than Joker’s great bounce pass for the vast majority of fans.

[dhsilv2]

The white community in America also displays this preference. There is a type of white American player who generates outsize fan appreciation. Kirk Hinrich is a great example. He is perceived to embody a white culture ideal of behavior.

As a white guy...I can honestly say I've never heard anyone talk about Hinrich in a good way at least. I know some bulls fans who weren't fans lol.

[Tottery]

It's an American sport we're starting to get schooled at. I can kind of understand the narrative, but idc.