What would be Jokic's career without Murray?

[Alatan]

You already saw what Jokic looked like without Murray. Back to back years of getting swept.

Murray would also be a homeless man’s Dame Lilliard without Jokic.

They need each other.

This is super dishonest as Murray was not the only player missing those seasons. What would Lebron James be is he was playing his whole career with a backcourt consisting of Barton, Rivers and Campazzo...

[canada_dry]

Replace murray with a number of other guards. Same results.

Now replace jokic with literally any big including the buffoon from Cameroon. It doesn't go so well.

Bad take. Even for you.

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

[Zadeh]

Murray has luckiest job in the nba.

Without him Jokic still got his mvps (without Murray he got two), if replace murray with an average Sg, Jokic could have been 3 MVPs and at least two rings more.

Replace murray with reliable all-star caliber guy sky is the limit.

Murray is not better than Jaylen green,

Just East all of this guys is upgrade for murray

Derrick White
Jrue Holiday
Jalen Brunsun
Rj Barrett (he is maybe the same)
Damian Lillard
Chris Middleton
Donovan Mitchell
Darius Garland
Tyrese Halliburton
Tyrese MAxey
Tyler Herro
Terry Rozier (he is maybe the same)
Zack Lavine
Demar DeRozan
Coby White (he is maybe the same)
Bojan Bogdanovic
Dejonte Murray
Cam Thomas
Scottie Barnes
Emanuel Quickey (he is maybe the same)
Even LaMelo Ball
Cade Cunningham

Jokic is Unique talent, elevate everybody like Magic or Bird. There is no one since Kidd in this league that kind.
Gordon's FG% neary better ten percent since Joining jokic,
Bruce Brown got 50 million dollars contract because of jokic.
KCP much consisten offewnsive player since Joinig Jokic.

Jokic make everybody better, esspcially Murray because primary pick and roll partner.

İf there was any other average player instead of Murray, Lakers series not become that close.

[xchange55]

What would Lebron’s career be without Wade Bosh Allen Kyrie Love AD Rondo Howard Reaves?

0 rings

[xchange55]

Just like Michael without Scottie: No rings.

Jamal Murray - the player who has never made an all star team in his career?

Steph won with Harrison Barnes before KD came along. I'm sure he wouldn't have need much over Klay/Draymond to do the same. He's the one constant. Klay/Draymond can more or less thank Steph for their mega contracts.

Must be a Bron fan who started this thread... sad

[Edrees]

They would have lost to the lakers this year with a less clutch player.

LOL

If Murray was Embiid’s sidekick and had a 46.8 TS% on 24 shots per game, you would be ripping him to pieces.

Not if he won 2 playoffs games for the 76ers against the knicks with a last second shot. That series would be tied 2-2 now.

I mean it depends. Murray for the series had 118 points on 120 shots (47 TS%). If you were to replace Murray with say an all star but non All NBA caliber guard. He may not be as clutch as Murray. But he may have shot a lot better throughout the series (especially game 2), where the game winning shots arent even necessary.

That's a fair point but everygame whether murray plays well or not, the Lakers build a lead and denver clutches it out with those really difficult or clutch shots. I think even with another all star, in his place Lakers would be able to build the same lead and actually maintain it, but Murray's timely shots builds momentum for Denver to get back into the game every time.

Just like Michael without Scottie: No rings.

Jamal Murray - the player who has never made an all star team in his career?

Steph won with Harrison Barnes before KD came along. I'm sure he wouldn't have need much over Klay/Draymond to do the same. He's the one constant. Klay/Draymond can more or less thank Steph for their mega contracts.

Must be a Bron fan who started this thread... sad

So do you think D'Angelo Russel, one time all star, would have made Denver better if he was there instead of Murray?

Anyone who says "murray isn't an all star so he isn't as good supprting cast as having an all star teammate" is arguing in blind faith, using a technicality to try to make him seem less of a player. He played like an All NBA player in the nuggets title run. If you want to say Murray isnt an all time good 2nd option, then you can also make the case that Harden is an all time great based on regular season only, because you are essentially judging a player on regular season and not playoffs.

If you want to say he was inefficient like Duke4Life pointed out, that's a fair arguement.
Saying he's not an all star is a completely meaningless bad faith argument because he would be an all star and even ALL NBA 1st team if you based those awards on playoffs only.

Replace murray with a number of other guards. Same results.

Now replace jokic with literally any big including the buffoon from Cameroon. It doesn't go so well.

Bad take. Even for you.

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

OP never said Murray would have a good career without Jokic. Nobody is saying Murray is nearly as good as Jokic. People are saying playoff Murray is as good as the 2nd option on some (not all) other title teams.

For example, I would say playoff Murray is clearly better than playoff Kris Middleton (or Jrue Holiday), who are the candidates for the 2nd best player alongside Giannis in his title run, or Andrew Wiggins who was the 2nd best player on the Warriors in their recent title run.

[Duke4life831]

They would have lost to the lakers this year with a less clutch player.




Not if he won 2 playoffs games for the 76ers against the knicks with a last second shot. That series would be tied 2-2 now.

I mean it depends. Murray for the series had 118 points on 120 shots (47 TS%). If you were to replace Murray with say an all star but non All NBA caliber guard. He may not be as clutch as Murray. But he may have shot a lot better throughout the series (especially game 2), where the game winning shots arent even necessary.

That's a fair point but everygame whether murray plays well or not, the Lakers build a lead and denver clutches it out with those really difficult or clutch shots. I think even with another all star, in his place Lakers would be able to build the same lead and actually maintain it, but Murray's timely shots builds momentum for Denver to get back into the game every time.

But the thing is, Murray really didnt have a good game this entire series. Murray shot under 40% for every game of the series except for game 5. Game 5 was his best game, but even then he didnt have all that great of a game up until the 4th quarter. What if Denver had consistent guard play, we dont know if LA continues to build up a lead every game.

Again Im not debating the fact that Murray can hit big time shots, I dont think thats debatable. But his play up until those parts of the game have forced him into a position to hit big shots. Just for comparison, here are some other #2 options in the playoffs right now.

Murray: 118 points on 120 FGAs
Maxey: 116 points on 90 FGAs
Kyrie: 115 points on 78 FGAs

The other thing to keep in mind with those guys is, Maxey and Kyrie's numbers are through 4 games, while Murray's is through 5. Murray has an extra game over the two, while averaging more shots per game compared to the two. He only has 2 more points than Maxey and 3 more points than Kyrie (while taking 42 more shots). You put one of those two on Denver, dont even give them a possible "Jokic boost", Denver cruises to an easy sweep. I dont think LA is putting up big leads that Denver has to climb back to win tight games in the 4th.

[One_and_Done]

The people who think he'd still have won a ring are not being objective.

[dygaction]

If you switch Morey to another player like young healthy Kobe, they would win more

[zero rings]

They would have lost to the lakers this year with a less clutch player.




Not if he won 2 playoffs games for the 76ers against the knicks with a last second shot. That series would be tied 2-2 now.

I mean it depends. Murray for the series had 118 points on 120 shots (47 TS%). If you were to replace Murray with say an all star but non All NBA caliber guard. He may not be as clutch as Murray. But he may have shot a lot better throughout the series (especially game 2), where the game winning shots arent even necessary.

That's a fair point but everygame whether murray plays well or not, the Lakers build a lead and denver clutches it out with those really difficult or clutch shots. I think even with another all star, in his place Lakers would be able to build the same lead and actually maintain it, but Murray's timely shots builds momentum for Denver to get back into the game every time.

Just like Michael without Scottie: No rings.

Jamal Murray - the player who has never made an all star team in his career?

Steph won with Harrison Barnes before KD came along. I'm sure he wouldn't have need much over Klay/Draymond to do the same. He's the one constant. Klay/Draymond can more or less thank Steph for their mega contracts.

Must be a Bron fan who started this thread... sad

So do you think D'Angelo Russel, one time all star, would have made Denver better if he was there instead of Murray?

Anyone who says "murray isn't an all star so he isn't as good supprting cast as having an all star teammate" is arguing in blind faith, using a technicality to try to make him seem less of a player. He played like an All NBA player in the nuggets title run. If you want to say Murray isnt an all time good 2nd option, then you can also make the case that Harden is an all time great based on regular season only, because you are essentially judging a player on regular season and not playoffs.

If you want to say he was inefficient like Duke4Life pointed out, that's a fair arguement.
Saying he's not an all star is a completely meaningless bad faith argument because he would be an all star and even ALL NBA 1st team if you based those awards on playoffs only.

There is no playoff Murray or regular season Murray. There’s just Murray. He’s a streaky scorer who has had more good streaks than bad in a relatively small sample of playoff games. Choosing to ignore all of his regular season games just makes your sample less accurate.

He was on a bad streak against the Lakers, and if he has another bad streak against the Wolves his career playoff averages won’t look much different than his regular season averages.

[AleksandarN]

The people who think he'd still have won a ring are not being objective.

Objective? Coming from you

[Wargreymon]

I don't think it matters who you put around Jokic. He would have won last year if you took Murray, Porter, Gordon, KCP and replaced them with any 4 random NBA level players. Jokic is the system that will elevate them and turn scrubs into diamonds.

[xchange55]

They would have lost to the lakers this year with a less clutch player.




Not if he won 2 playoffs games for the 76ers against the knicks with a last second shot. That series would be tied 2-2 now.

I mean it depends. Murray for the series had 118 points on 120 shots (47 TS%). If you were to replace Murray with say an all star but non All NBA caliber guard. He may not be as clutch as Murray. But he may have shot a lot better throughout the series (especially game 2), where the game winning shots arent even necessary.

That's a fair point but everygame whether murray plays well or not, the Lakers build a lead and denver clutches it out with those really difficult or clutch shots. I think even with another all star, in his place Lakers would be able to build the same lead and actually maintain it, but Murray's timely shots builds momentum for Denver to get back into the game every time.

Just like Michael without Scottie: No rings.

Jamal Murray - the player who has never made an all star team in his career?

Steph won with Harrison Barnes before KD came along. I'm sure he wouldn't have need much over Klay/Draymond to do the same. He's the one constant. Klay/Draymond can more or less thank Steph for their mega contracts.

Must be a Bron fan who started this thread... sad

So do you think D'Angelo Russel, one time all star, would have made Denver better if he was there instead of Murray?

Anyone who says "murray isn't an all star so he isn't as good supprting cast as having an all star teammate" is arguing in blind faith, using a technicality to try to make him seem less of a player. He played like an All NBA player in the nuggets title run. If you want to say Murray isnt an all time good 2nd option, then you can also make the case that Harden is an all time great based on regular season only, because you are essentially judging a player on regular season and not playoffs.

If you want to say he was inefficient like Duke4Life pointed out, that's a fair arguement.
Saying he's not an all star is a completely meaningless bad faith argument because he would be an all star and even ALL NBA 1st team if you based those awards on playoffs only.

Replace murray with a number of other guards. Same results.

Now replace jokic with literally any big including the buffoon from Cameroon. It doesn't go so well.

Bad take. Even for you.

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

OP never said Murray would have a good career without Jokic. Nobody is saying Murray is nearly as good as Jokic. People are saying playoff Murray is as good as the 2nd option on some (not all) other title teams.

For example, I would say playoff Murray is clearly better than playoff Kris Middleton (or Jrue Holiday), who are the candidates for the 2nd best player alongside Giannis in his title run, or Andrew Wiggins who was the 2nd best player on the Warriors in their recent title run.

It's actually very difficult to judge Murray. If I remember correctly on the broadcast they said he has the biggest margin in scoring average from regular season to posteason at something like +8 in history. Playoffs is such a small sample size I'd tend to lean towards regular season - or let's average all games regular + post season and he's just a marginal all star (judging by stats). He would almost certainly never be All NBA with those stats.

He's a very good player yes. Now let's say Joker was injured last year and this year and DEN bows out early. There would hardly be any disucssions on Murray at all - he's just another player. Is it fair to elevate him to All NBA level based on 20-30 games? Also, the Lakers play no defense, MPJ/Gordon/Murray all look like all stars and All NBA against them.

[Godymas]

Jamal Murray continues to be underrated

Jokic would never win a ring without Jamal Murray and the only guy that I would call a clear upgrade to play with Jokic ahead of Murray would be Steph Curry

HOWEVER, a player at Dame or Kyrie's level could be a serviceable replacement, but they would NOT be an upgrade.

Shouldn't you be more worried about your team? You have Maxey outperforming Murray by far and Chokebiid is still about to lose in 5 in the first round.

my team is the Washington Wizards, I find your blind assumption really funny

[web123888]

With a healthy Murray he could be working on a 3-peat this year.

[Ito]

Down 3-2 to the Lakers getting ready for game 6

[GeorgeSears]

Jamal Murray is better than these guards: Donovan Mitchell, DLo, Trae Young, Maxey, Fox, Lillard, Fred VanVleet, Garland, Jrue Holiday.

Yet, all of them have made all-star team and he hasn't.

He hasn't made the all-star team for two reasons: 1.) Bad injury luck at the wrong time. He missed all of December this season, and last season started off very slow because he was coming off ACL surgery. However, he finished the season strong in both years. Eventually, he'll make the team. He's too good not to.

2.) Consistency. Like the players I mentioned above, he struggles with consistency for stretches of the season.

However, he's a "big game" player and none of those players I mentioned above have raised their games in the postseason like he has.

[Woodsanity]

Jamal Murray continues to be underrated

Jokic would never win a ring without Jamal Murray and the only guy that I would call a clear upgrade to play with Jokic ahead of Murray would be Steph Curry

HOWEVER, a player at Dame or Kyrie's level could be a serviceable replacement, but they would NOT be an upgrade.

Shouldn't you be more worried about your team? You have Maxey outperforming Murray by far and Chokebiid is still about to lose in 5 in the first round.

my team is the Washington Wizards, I find your blind assumption really funny

Wizards fan and Chokebiid fan. I feel bad for you bro.

[GSP]

Maxey is already better than Murray and the version of Harden that Embiid had was better too. Harden had more 40pt playoff games in a Sixers uniform than Embiid before that 30 Ft 50pt game this series

[SweaterBae]

Time and again I have seen Jamal Murray's great contribution towards Nuggets. What would be Jokic's career without Murray?

So they're playing 4 on 5 or what?