What would be Jokic's career without Murray?

[Chuck Everett]

Murray has luckiest job in the nba.

Without him Jokic still got his mvps (without Murray he got two), if replace murray with an average Sg, Jokic could have been 3 MVPs and at least two rings more.

Replace murray with reliable all-star caliber guy sky is the limit.

Murray is not better than Jaylen green,

Just East all of this guys is upgrade for murray

Derrick White
Jrue Holiday
Jalen Brunsun
Rj Barrett (he is maybe the same)
Damian Lillard
Chris Middleton
Donovan Mitchell
Darius Garland
Tyrese Halliburton
Tyrese MAxey
Tyler Herro
Terry Rozier (he is maybe the same)
Zack Lavine
Demar DeRozan
Coby White (he is maybe the same)
Bojan Bogdanovic
Dejonte Murray
Cam Thomas
Scottie Barnes
Emanuel Quickey (he is maybe the same)
Even LaMelo Ball
Cade Cunningham

Jokic is Unique talent, elevate everybody like Magic or Bird. There is no one since Kidd in this league that kind.
Gordon's FG% neary better ten percent since Joining jokic,
Bruce Brown got 50 million dollars contract because of jokic.
KCP much consisten offewnsive player since Joinig Jokic.

Jokic make everybody better, esspcially Murray because primary pick and roll partner.

İf there was any other average player instead of Murray, Lakers series not become that close.

[Pistol_Pete]

He’d be homeless.

With his pony.

“Milk was a bad choice” - Nikola Jokic

[nzd07]

I don't think it matters who you put around Jokic. He would have won last year if you took Murray, Porter, Gordon, KCP and replaced them with any 4 random NBA level players. Jokic is the system that will elevate them and turn scrubs into diamonds.

I am fully on the "Jokic is the best player in the NBA" train, but come on, dude. You have to be trolling. Even prime LBJ could not win with a cast of scrubs.

[Wargreymon]

I don't think it matters who you put around Jokic. He would have won last year if you took Murray, Porter, Gordon, KCP and replaced them with any 4 random NBA level players. Jokic is the system that will elevate them and turn scrubs into diamonds.

I am fully on the "Jokic is the best player in the NBA" train, but come on, dude. You have to be trolling. Even prime LBJ could not win with a cast of scrubs.

Well that’s because prime Jokic > prime LBJ

[nzd07]

I don't think it matters who you put around Jokic. He would have won last year if you took Murray, Porter, Gordon, KCP and replaced them with any 4 random NBA level players. Jokic is the system that will elevate them and turn scrubs into diamonds.

I am fully on the "Jokic is the best player in the NBA" train, but come on, dude. You have to be trolling. Even prime LBJ could not win with a cast of scrubs.

Well that’s because prime Jokic > prime LBJ

We'll see if he can beat MIN and BOS this year with inferior supporting casts.

[greekman]

no ring. that is a guarantee

[TheWhiteMamba]

Remove the second most important player from the team of every nba champion of history, without replacing him... 95 out of 100 times = NO RING

[greekman]

Remove the second most important player from the team of every nba champion of history, without replacing him... 95 out of 100 times = NO RING

murray is a bit different. he's on tatum's level when it comes to making clutch shots and carrying a team's offense in the 4th qtr. when his shot isn't going he's a facilitator. very underrated player.

[HotRocks34]

The year (21-22) that Jokic played without Murray he had the highest single season PER and BPM in NBA history, and he won MVP for the second year in a row.

The Nuggets lost to the eventual champs (last-gasp Warriors) that season not because they didn't have Murray (or Porter), but because they didn't have workable replacements for them.

Murray made $30M that year and the Nuggets were stuck with that dead money and no player. Porter made a small $5M sum that season.

To be fair, even a healthy Denver may have lost to the Dubs that year because the Dubs were a great team on the last legs of its run.

Murray is not a great player. He's not good or consistent enough to be an All Star or All NBA choice. He's erratic.

The 24 Lakers series is Peak Murray. He looks like a hero but part of the reason why your team needs heroics is because of his struggles.

Jokic doesn't need Murray. He just needs a PG who can play to the level of a max contract.

A comparison for Murray is someone like Horace Grant (1 time All Star, 4 All Defense teams).

Jordan didn't need Grant to succeed but he needed someone who could fill Grant's role and Rodman did so.

And though Grant and Rodman were key to the Bulls titles, they were not THE key. Jordan was.

Jokic is Jordan and Murray is Grant. Give Jokic a Rodman and he'll be fine without "Grant" Murray.

[Wolfgang630]

What would be Magics career without Kareem?
What would be Shaq’s career without Kobe, Wade?
What would be Lebrons career without Wade, Anthony Davis, Kyrie?

[Gusto1903]

I am fully on the "Jokic is the best player in the NBA" train, but come on, dude. You have to be trolling. Even prime LBJ could not win with a cast of scrubs.

Well that’s because prime Jokic > prime LBJ

We'll see if he can beat MIN and BOS this year with inferior supporting casts.

I dont see Boston beating the Nuggets

[BDM22]

Take away the #2 guy on the vast majority of championship teams and they don't win.

[aliasxn]

Dear God... jokic has already never played with an allstar, all nba, all defensive player and you sickos want to take off the best player on their team?

Might as well name the thread "Is Jokic good enough to win with players from RealGM?"

[Ice Man]

This is such a weird thread. Jokic is the only star in modern NBA history to win a title while having no starting teammates who have ever been in an All Star game (DAJ made one All Star game, but he is a Nuggets backup). Yet instead of the story being how Jokic uniquely was able to win a title without All Star support, it becomes instead a narrative about how he is dependent on his help.

Just bizarre.

[Exp0sed]

You already saw what Jokic looked like without Murray. Back to back years of getting swept.

Murray would also be a homeless man’s Dame Lilliard without Jokic.

They need each other.

Jokic would still be successful with many other players who could replace Murray. You could replace Murray with Kyrie, Brunson, Lillard, Ja, Fox, Hali, Curry, Harden, Garland, Shai, Luka, Dejounte, Trae, Holiday, Lamelo, etc. Hell it doesn't even have to be a PG, but other players like CJ Mccolum, Herro, could fill that gap when you have a player like Jokic.

Murray would have zero chance of being successful without Jokic unless he was on a completely loaded roster.

This is a ridiculous thread.

lmfao, most of the guys on that list would be even better than Murray as part of the Jokic\whomever two man game
Murray and Jokic have played their entire career together, so that helps their chemistry and understanding alot. if u give Jokic 7 seasons with most of the guys on that list he'd have multiple championships rn

[rapstarter]

What would be Magics career without Kareem?
What would be Shaq’s career without Kobe, Wade?
What would be Lebrons career without Wade, Anthony Davis, Kyrie?

And of course Murray is the most replaceable out of any of those guys.

[Alatan]

Remove the second most important player from the team of every nba champion of history, without replacing him... 95 out of 100 times = NO RING

murray is a bit different. he's on tatum's level when it comes to making clutch shots and carrying a team's offense in the 4th qtr. when his shot isn't going he's a facilitator. very underrated player.

I can see that you have never watched Murray play outside of highlights and statsheets.

Murray is the utmost low IQ chucker paired with being a turnstile on D. If he played on any other team in the league he would be a 6th man microwave scorer that gets benched quickly if his shot is not falling like it often doesnt.

Only in Denver he can spend 3 quarters of a game shooting 3/16, turning the ball over non stop and being an ass on defense and then get the green light to shoot it in the 4th. Was it not for the rest of the team keeping the game close there would be no chances of last minute heroics.

Id replace Murray with any other scoring guard in the league and it would probably be an improvement, if nothing else then by availability and in game consistency.

Murray is a **** rollercoaster of the worst kind.

[Alatan]

These are the current guards that are as good of better than Murray in the combo guard role (in no order):
Curry
Morrant
Fox
Booker
Irving
Edwards
SGA
Maxey
Mitchell
Lilard
Brunson
Dejonute Murray
J.Williams
Beal
Lavine
Cam Thomas
Trae Young
Ball
CJ McCollum
VanVleet
Bane
A. Simmons
Vassell
Cuningham

Thats a total of 24 guards. And some people think that Jokic couldnt play without Murray...

[KayDee35]

It's no secret that Jokic is overly reliant on his teammates. For example, Jokic relies on at least 7 other team members being dressed for the game or the team would be disqualified. I don't know about you pansies but, to me, that is SOFT.

How can you claim to be a 3 time MVP, the GOAT, the second coming of George Mikan and Larry Bird combined, and guy who has figured out basketball like it's tic-tac-toe, and yet be so reliant on your teammates.

People act like Jokic's passing is some great feat. But if we're being honest, every assist he's gotten relies on his teammate making the shot. So the other guy does all the work of putting the ball in the basket but Jokic gets the credit??? That makes no sense.

The guy is overrated. I, for one, can't wait until he's done hogging all the accolades while being carried by his teammates. He'll have more success in his second career after basketball as the Pillsbury Doughboy mascot.

[Harry Garris]

You already saw what Jokic looked like without Murray. Back to back years of getting swept.

Murray would also be a homeless man’s Dame Lilliard without Jokic.

They need each other.

The Nuggets didn't get swept in 2022, they lost to the Warriors 4-1. Jokic was also completely dominant in that series despite the loss and was head and shoulders the best player on the court against the eventual champs.