Joel Embiid is NOT HIM. Period. Full stop.

[Exp0sed]

In the last part you are sort of telling on yourself. What other player on the board looks at a player gutting it out through a serious injury and says that is the best version of him?

It doesn't even happen with Kawhi on the rare chance he plays hurt, which he rarely does. You want to criticize him for always getting injured in the playoffs go ahead it's fair game and extremely frustrating as a Sixer fan. However, if you are watching Embiid barely able to move who can't jump without hobbling on one leg and say that is how he always looks. He is out there choking sorry but you are ridiculous. The dude shouldn't be playing this team isn't good enough to potentially do additional damage playing hurt.

which "serious injury" is Joel "gutting it" through?
he had surgery on his meniscus, he may not be all the way back to a 100% but he isn't "injured". the Bell's palsy thing is just freaky and probably weird and uncomofrtable but it has nothing to do with basketball

if he's that injured and can't run, can't jump etc..how is it that he's running just fine (from time to time in the games) and he's jumping very well, when he elevates for 3 or going up for key blocks in OT after playing 45+ mins

i'm not sure you know what "can't jump" means

even on his best of days his stamina and conditioning is poor and now he had a long injury layoff and he's asked to play heavy mins every other day, that's why he isn't seen running alot, jumping alot etc. - he simply doesn't have the energy and he's conserving it by not getting back on defense, challenging shots only occaionsaly etc - it's not becuase of some made up injury

dude isn't injured, if he was injured he wouldn't be playing.
not a 100% does not equal "injured" and guess what, no1 is a 100% this time of the year

Brunson looks more injured than Joe L tbh and Mitch who was in a walking boot just two days ago after Embiitch's dirty play - is also more injured than Embiid but he seemed to be doing just fine

[tsherkin]

Yep, I'd urge the people who are somehow re-writing this as a good game (or hell, even an 'ok' game) to rewatch the 4th quarter and watch Embiid on all plays.

4 turnovers (!) in the biggest quarter of the season
1 of 4 shooting

If Maxey doesn't go ballistic to even force overtime (down 6 with 26 seconds), we're talking all-time great choke.

It was pretty brutal, yes. It's pretty clear he was gassed, and that his knee wasn't in great form. And he was just struggling badly. He rebounded well and did D up better than many in this thread seem to realize, but that could have been a far easier game if he was any kind of useful at hitting his shots. And/or if he hadn't been so careless with the ball.

Triple double, elite D in OT, and a team high +14. Only the casuals hating on Embiid

The irony is that this is a "casual" box score take.

He was god awful. Super inefficient, completely frazzled all game, and had big time turnovers.

If it wasn't for Brunson choking and the Knicks choking, Philly is done. Embiid's was bailed out. Worst game he's played all pose season.

Yeah, he was pretty brutal as a scoring threat. He rebounded well and crushed the offensive glass, he was actually pretty high-impact on D... but 6/15 inside the arc isn't gonna get it done.

Not sure I'd agree that Brunson choked, particularly when he was 3/6 inside the arc in the 4th. What happened is that Maxey went bananas and went 6/7 for 17 points, and blasted 4/4 from 3.

[tsherkin]

which "serious injury" is Joel "gutting it" through?
he had surgery on his meniscus, he may not be all the way back to a 100% but he isn't "injured". the Bell's palsy thing is just freaky and probably weird and uncomofrtable but it has nothing to do with basketball

if he's that injured and can't run, can't jump etc..how is it that he's running just fine (from time to time in the games) and he's jumping very well, when he elevates for 3 or going up for key blocks in OT after playing 45+ mins

Pivoting, change of direction, anything with angular velocity on the knee. It's limiting his mobility, guaranteed.

dude isn't injured, if he was injured he wouldn't be playing.

That isn't true.

I think you need to process what knee injuries are like a little more, to be honest. I don't mean to be disrespectful, it just sounds like you really don't appreciate what that specific injury is like to manage.

[Exp0sed]

which "serious injury" is Joel "gutting it" through?
he had surgery on his meniscus, he may not be all the way back to a 100% but he isn't "injured". the Bell's palsy thing is just freaky and probably weird and uncomofrtable but it has nothing to do with basketball

if he's that injured and can't run, can't jump etc..how is it that he's running just fine (from time to time in the games) and he's jumping very well, when he elevates for 3 or going up for key blocks in OT after playing 45+ mins

Pivoting, change of direction, anything with angular velocity on the knee. It's limiting his mobility, guaranteed.

dude isn't injured, if he was injured he wouldn't be playing.

That isn't true.

I think you need to process what knee injuries are like a little more, to be honest. I don't mean to be disrespectful, it just sounds like you really don't appreciate what that specific injury is like to manage.

ur basing all this just on Joe L's fake hobbling. dude, when ur hobbling ur hobbling all the time. Embiid is fine one play and hobbling and grimacing the next, usually after missing a shot, committing a turnover or complaining to the refs after another failed flop

srry, but I don't buy it
Towns came back from his meniscus surgery a couple of weeks before schedule, he should have only been beginning to resume to contact drills right about now but he's playing - how come KAT is managing to pivot, to change direction and how come his mobility, isn't "limited"?

so Idk anything about knee injuries fine, no prob. does KAT know anything about them? cuz he seems to be doing A-OK, and he didn't go through his full recovery schedule like Joe L and was only a participant in the last rs game. Embiid had 7-8 games to work himself into game shape

the only X factor here is the Bell's palsy, if he really had awful migraines i'm sure that hurt his prepration but that makes it more like another "flu" game and if his migraines were so bad and he was this out of sorts he should have played second fiddle to Maxey from the opening tip. what's the use of trying to force feed him the ball just so's he gets denied or doubled and throw a random ball to the stands?

u can't have it both ways

[CoP]

Does anyone nowadays really argue that he is HIM? I don't really hear that anymore.

I guess that some people argue that he could be him if he could be healthy, but being injured is just a characteristic of Embiid at this point. Being injured, especially for the playoffs, is just who he is. I doubt that will change as he gets older.

[tsherkin]

ur basing all this just on Joe L's fake hobbling. dude, when ur hobbling ur hobbling all the time.

No, again, that's not how that injury works.

Towns came back from his meniscus surgery a couple of weeks before schedule, he should have only been beginning to resume to contact drills right about now but he's playing - how come KAT is managing to pivot, to change direction and how come his mobility, isn't "limited"?

Different players, different knees, different styles, different bodies.

the only X factor here is the Bell's palsy, if he really had awful migraines i'm sure that hurt his prepration but that makes it more like another "flu" game and if his migraines were so bad and he was this out of sorts he should have played second fiddle to Maxey from the opening tip. what's the use of trying to force feed him the ball just so's he gets denied or doubled and throw a random ball to the stands?

u can't have it both ways

I agree that force-feeding him isn't a particularly good idea. But they needed more scoring punch and Maxey was already going HAM. You realize Maxey took 30 shots and Embiid took 19, right? There was a very LARGE emphasis on Maxey in the last game.

[Woodsanity]

I better not see Bumbiid fans blame Maxey who carried him for his failures....

[Exp0sed]

ur basing all this just on Joe L's fake hobbling. dude, when ur hobbling ur hobbling all the time.

No, again, that's not how that injury works.

Towns came back from his meniscus surgery a couple of weeks before schedule, he should have only been beginning to resume to contact drills right about now but he's playing - how come KAT is managing to pivot, to change direction and how come his mobility, isn't "limited"?

Different players, different knees, different styles, different bodies.

the only X factor here is the Bell's palsy, if he really had awful migraines i'm sure that hurt his prepration but that makes it more like another "flu" game and if his migraines were so bad and he was this out of sorts he should have played second fiddle to Maxey from the opening tip. what's the use of trying to force feed him the ball just so's he gets denied or doubled and throw a random ball to the stands?

u can't have it both ways

I agree that force-feeding him isn't a particularly good idea. But they needed more scoring punch and Maxey was already going HAM. You realize Maxey took 30 shots and Embiid took 19, right? There was a very LARGE emphasis on Maxey in the last game.

that's not how injury works? so how does it work?
u still haven't said what ur basing this one apart from Embiid's fake hobbles and grimaces

as for FGA well..they tried to get him ALOT more shots (which was asinine if as u say, he's that hobbled and injured) he just had 10 To' so alot of those FGA didn't actually occur

if hes that injured he should focus on defense and rebounding. no point in him taking 20 shots and making 6 of them while turning the ball over 10 more times

he should just set screens for Maxey

[skones]

In the last part you are sort of telling on yourself. What other player on the board looks at a player gutting it out through a serious injury and says that is the best version of him?

It doesn't even happen with Kawhi on the rare chance he plays hurt, which he rarely does. You want to criticize him for always getting injured in the playoffs go ahead it's fair game and extremely frustrating as a Sixer fan. However, if you are watching Embiid barely able to move who can't jump without hobbling on one leg and say that is how he always looks. He is out there choking sorry but you are ridiculous. The dude shouldn't be playing this team isn't good enough to potentially do additional damage playing hurt.

This just sounds like you want the glory when you get it and want to make excuses when you don't. This guy just dropped 50 last week. Was he "seriously injured then?" Or was he just dominant? Was he barely able to move and can't jump then? Or just dominant?

[tsherkin]

that's not how injury works? so how does it work?

I have, actually. Do some research on the anatomy of the knee and the types of movements which affect it. Then look at the difference between north-south movement running baseline to baseline and the type of stuff which happens when you plant the injured limb and try to twist.

Again, this isn't the whole story, it's just part of it, but it's one part which you clearly do not understand at all.

u still haven't said what ur basing this one apart from Embiid's fake hobbles and grimaces

Working with rehabilitating athletes, my own meniscus injury, coaching injured athletes in basketball. Brazilian jiujitsu.

as for FGA well..they tried to get him ALOT more shots (which was asinine if as u say, he's that hobbled and injured) he just had 10 To' so alot of those FGA didn't actually occur

And to whom do you think those shots should have and could have gone? Maxey was already topped out in usage, they basically couldn't get him the ball anymore.

he should just set screens for Maxey

Yeah but that isn't how basketball works, so they didn't do that, lol. You still have to support volume. One guy isn't gonna go out there and get 60 when the D knows that he's getting the ball every time. They'd get picked apart in a hot minute if they tried that.

[tsherkin]

This just sounds like you want the glory when you get it and want to make excuses when you don't. This guy just dropped 50 last week. Was he "seriously injured then?" Or was he just dominant? Was he barely able to move and can't jump then? Or just dominant?

He was 5/7 from 3, and was hitting those foul line/top of circle jumpers which he was missing today. It's a notable difference.

[Johnny Bball]

Now imagine Embiid without a very friendly whistle.

I'm not sure how the guy doesn't get called for his obvious flagrants, moving screens, hacks, and how he gets to the line for so many obvious offensive fouls. The guy does not deserve the star player treatment.

He won the MVP last year and was the betting favorite to win it again before getting injured. If he isn't deserving of the star treatment who is?

The embiid haters are ridiculous.

Guys that don't flop every single play and foul every single play. And maybe he wouldn't be the MVP without the star treatment.

[Exp0sed]

that's not how injury works? so how does it work?

I have, actually. Do some research on the anatomy of the knee and the types of movements which affect it. Then look at the difference between north-south movement running baseline to baseline and the type of stuff which happens when you plant the injured limb and try to twist.

Again, this isn't the whole story, it's just part of it, but it's one part which you clearly do not understand at all.

u still haven't said what ur basing this one apart from Embiid's fake hobbles and grimaces

Working with rehabilitating athletes, my own meniscus injury, coaching injured athletes in basketball. Brazilian jiujitsu.

as for FGA well..they tried to get him ALOT more shots (which was asinine if as u say, he's that hobbled and injured) he just had 10 To' so alot of those FGA didn't actually occur

And to whom do you think those shots should have and could have gone? Maxey was already topped out in usage, they basically couldn't get him the ball anymore.

he should just set screens for Maxey

Yeah but that isn't how basketball works, so they didn't do that, lol. You still have to support volume. One guy isn't gonna go out there and get 60 when the D knows that he's getting the ball every time. They'd get picked apart in a hot minute if they tried that.

u misunderstood me

when I asked what r u basing it on, what I mean wasn't ur personal expertise or knowledge I mean you have no idea where Joe L's knee is at. you haven't examined him. u said that body type, style of play and simply build and genetics make for a high degree of variance and every player is different. I agree.

question is how do u know anything about the condition Joel knee is at?
imo ur basing it on nothing other than the observation of his behavior (hobbling and grimacing) and i'm saying he's faking it making the observations ur relying on exremely unreliable

when he's down and the team is behind he's hobbling and grimacing 500% more than in wins. must be some coincidence...

as for Maxey, let's not get carried away. if he can go up to block every shot in OT after 45+ mins then he can roll to the basket as well. I simply urged the 76ers to stop trying to get him elbow touches or post touches, instead initiating the offense through the PNR. he's still a threat to pop and he's still a threat to roll and finish, it's not like the Knicks can load up on Maxey because if they do he can still find Embiid

maxed out?
he played 52 mins, 30 FGA isn't that high for 52 mins. ur telling me the 76ers wouldn't have been better off in the 4th just let Maxey take a few more pull-up mid range shots or pull-up threes? over trying to feed Embiid who can't even make a clean catch half the time? and like I said, Maxey is a great player as soon as he sees he's getting doubled he can still find Joe L but that would put the gimpy clown in a much better position on the court to convert, draw a foul or make a good play

[skones]

This just sounds like you want the glory when you get it and want to make excuses when you don't. This guy just dropped 50 last week. Was he "seriously injured then?" Or was he just dominant? Was he barely able to move and can't jump then? Or just dominant?

He was 5/7 from 3, and was hitting those foul line/top of circle jumpers which he was missing today. It's a notable difference.

I'm not saying he's not affected, he certainly is, but we can't sit here and make that excuse every single year. It's part of the game. It's part of an 82 game season, and he fell to 3rd in his draft class specifically because of these injury concerns. Injured is what Embiid has always been, so when we get to the end of the year, I just don't think it can be used an excuse for him not making the ECF ESPECIALLY with the roster he has. He's 30, it's been put up or shut up for some time now.

[tsherkin]

I'm not saying he's not affected, her certainly is, but we can't sit here and make that excuse every single year. It's part of the game. It's part of an 82 game season, and he fell to 3rd in his draft class specifically because of these injury concerns. Injured is what Embiid has always been, so when we get to the end of the year, I just don't think it can be used an excuse for him not making the ECF ESPECIALLY with the roster he has. He's 30, it's been put up or shut up for some time now.

Replace the word "excuse" with "explanation" and you'll have a better time, I think.

The one implies that there should be no consequence in evaluation, while the other addresses a portion of his performance without suggesting it be hand-waved away, you know?

I agree, injury is a persistent issue with Embiid and it comes up a lot. That in and of itself is an issue, and it's not something from which he can be totally separated as a result.

But "put up or shut up" is perhaps poor language. He'll be more of a tragic case of "what if" than anything else, but we shouldn't deny his talent entirely by ignoring the effects of injury. Just mourn what might have been, and watch as he invariably falls short of his potential.

[binjumper]

Wake me up when he makes a ECF. He's always getting bounced by a 6" guard.

[QingJames]

Embiid is just such an amazing, transcendental defender that Brunson was driving at him and cooking him at will all game long. In fact, Brunson is averaging 29 drives per game in this postseason, with the only one close to him being Doncic at 23. Wow, what a rim deterrent Embiid is!

The Knicks are shooting 46 percent in the paint against embiid. That’s among the best nunbers in the playoffs,

He's quite literally playing on one leg right now.

He can't jump. He can't run. He has no lift. He can barely rebound. He can't finish around the rim with any real emphasis. I've seen this said somewhere else and i'll parrot, he looks about as small as I've ever seen him on the court. The meniscus has hampered his ability to shift, pivot and contest (his defense) much more dramatically than it's affected his offense.

Thibodeau is blatantly sending Hart, OG, Brunson etc downhill with speed en masse because Embiid is vulnerable in space right now.

So then let's stop pretending Embiid is playing good defense this postseason.

[QingJames]

which "serious injury" is Joel "gutting it" through?
he had surgery on his meniscus, he may not be all the way back to a 100% but he isn't "injured". the Bell's palsy thing is just freaky and probably weird and uncomofrtable but it has nothing to do with basketball

if he's that injured and can't run, can't jump etc..how is it that he's running just fine (from time to time in the games) and he's jumping very well, when he elevates for 3 or going up for key blocks in OT after playing 45+ mins

Pivoting, change of direction, anything with angular velocity on the knee. It's limiting his mobility, guaranteed.

dude isn't injured, if he was injured he wouldn't be playing.

That isn't true.

I think you need to process what knee injuries are like a little more, to be honest. I don't mean to be disrespectful, it just sounds like you really don't appreciate what that specific injury is like to manage.

KAT had the same injury, left later and returned earlier. I don't hear him making excuses. I don't hear people talking about KAT as though he's this cripple on one leg.

Embiid is at 85-90% of his usual self. He's certainly no more injured than KAT is.

[tsherkin]

KAT had the same injury, left later and returned earlier. I don't hear him making excuses. I don't hear people talking about KAT as though he's this cripple on one leg.

Again with the reading, though. Different body types, different games. Different knees. Not everyone reacts in an identical fashion to this stuff, and the details of their injury specifics are not identical either.