Who dominated who more? Bird vs MJ, or Jokic vs LeBron?

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Who Dominated Who More?

Bird owned MJ
36
40%
Jokic owned LeBron
55
60%
 
Total votes: 91

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Re: Who dominated who more? Bird vs MJ, or Jokic vs LeBron? 

Post#81 » by Hair Jordan » Thu May 2, 2024 6:51 pm

One Last Shot wrote:
Hair Jordan wrote:Lebron got owned more cause he had prime AD by his side (top 75 player all time) and a team good enough to win the IST and make some noise in the playoffs and yet he still got swept. Jordan had no all star teammates (let alone a top 75 all time guy) and got swept in just his 2nd and 3rd seasons by a prime Bird/McHale/Parish/DJ/Celts team in their MVP and championship prime.


Nah. Before LeBron turns 38, he beat Jokic 15 times out of their 23 games when they match-up against each other, they are the only team who eliminated the healthy Nuggets core of Jokic/Jamal/MPJ in 2020 Playoffs series and won an NBA title. Sure, Jokic beat LeBron for 11 straight games when most of the players retired when they reach that age but Larry Bird beat Jordan for 13 straight games in his athletic prime. Even in 2007 when LeBron just 22 years old and the Spurs swept them in the Finals, atleast LeBron swept that same Spurs championship core in the regular season.


Jordan got swept by a team with 5 HOF (Bird, McHale, Parish, DJ and Walton) in addition to 2 more All Stars (Ainge and Wedman). Lebron got swept and gentlemen swept by a team with 1 HOF (Jokic)
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Re: Who dominated who more? Bird vs MJ, or Jokic vs LeBron? 

Post#82 » by Marrrcuss » Thu May 2, 2024 7:40 pm

Hair Jordan wrote:
One Last Shot wrote:
Hair Jordan wrote:Lebron got owned more cause he had prime AD by his side (top 75 player all time) and a team good enough to win the IST and make some noise in the playoffs and yet he still got swept. Jordan had no all star teammates (let alone a top 75 all time guy) and got swept in just his 2nd and 3rd seasons by a prime Bird/McHale/Parish/DJ/Celts team in their MVP and championship prime.


Nah. Before LeBron turns 38, he beat Jokic 15 times out of their 23 games when they match-up against each other, they are the only team who eliminated the healthy Nuggets core of Jokic/Jamal/MPJ in 2020 Playoffs series and won an NBA title. Sure, Jokic beat LeBron for 11 straight games when most of the players retired when they reach that age but Larry Bird beat Jordan for 13 straight games in his athletic prime. Even in 2007 when LeBron just 22 years old and the Spurs swept them in the Finals, atleast LeBron swept that same Spurs championship core in the regular season.


Jordan got swept by a team with 5 HOF (Bird, McHale, Parish, DJ and Walton) in addition to 2 more All Stars (Ainge and Wedman). Lebron got swept and gentlemen swept by a team with 1 HOF (Jokic)

Did they all play at a HOF level in 1986 or nah? Was Dennis Johnson an upper echelon guard that year? Walton averaged 7 points but youre selling him like he was HIM. Wedman averaged 8.
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Re: Who dominated who more? Bird vs MJ, or Jokic vs LeBron? 

Post#83 » by KazuoOda » Thu May 2, 2024 8:12 pm

So... A Jokic in his prime vs a LeBron at the end of his career??? Like what are we even talking about. Yall that bored?
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Re: Who dominated who more? Bird vs MJ, or Jokic vs LeBron? 

Post#84 » by jerok » Fri May 3, 2024 1:55 pm

lessthanjake wrote:
jerok wrote:
lessthanjake wrote:
This doesn’t really seem like much of an explanation to me. It’s basically just “I grew up watching him and had a poster of him,” followed by saying LeBron is the “best overall basketball player.” I don’t think the substance of what you said matches what you say you believe. Please explain in detail what actual objective things cause you to believe Jordan is the GOAT. I’m not asking for personal subjective things about your own life that don’t actually directly bear on Jordan’s greatness in any objective way. I want you to tell me why you believe that Michael Jordan was objectively greater than LeBron James (and everyone else).


I guess you just can't comprehend, like that chipotle guy.
This just tells us you didn't have the privilege to grow up watching MJ and what he meant to a lot of people.
Sorry to hear that.


No, I absolutely did watch MJ—in fact, I lived in Chicago at the time, so I watched like every game. I am asking you to tell me why you believe that Michael Jordan was objectively greater than LeBron James (and everyone else). And I’m not understanding why you are seemingly unwilling to do that, when you have repeatedly said in this thread that you believe Jordan is the GOAT. If you believe that Jordan is the GOAT, then there must be objective reasons that make you think that, and I’m simply asking you what those objective reasons are. This shouldn’t be difficult, nor should it be a trap. Alternatively, if you are unable or unwilling to set forth any objective reasons why Jordan is the GOAT, then is it *actually* something you really believe?


so, someone like you, who watched MJ, and lived in Chicago during the Bulls era, needs an explanation why another person, who idolized Jordan growing up has MJ as their GOAT?

hmmm...
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Re: Who dominated who more? Bird vs MJ, or Jokic vs LeBron? 

Post#85 » by lessthanjake » Fri May 3, 2024 3:29 pm

jerok wrote:
lessthanjake wrote:
jerok wrote:
I guess you just can't comprehend, like that chipotle guy.
This just tells us you didn't have the privilege to grow up watching MJ and what he meant to a lot of people.
Sorry to hear that.


No, I absolutely did watch MJ—in fact, I lived in Chicago at the time, so I watched like every game. I am asking you to tell me why you believe that Michael Jordan was objectively greater than LeBron James (and everyone else). And I’m not understanding why you are seemingly unwilling to do that, when you have repeatedly said in this thread that you believe Jordan is the GOAT. If you believe that Jordan is the GOAT, then there must be objective reasons that make you think that, and I’m simply asking you what those objective reasons are. This shouldn’t be difficult, nor should it be a trap. Alternatively, if you are unable or unwilling to set forth any objective reasons why Jordan is the GOAT, then is it *actually* something you really believe?


so, someone like you, who watched MJ, and lived in Chicago during the Bulls era, needs an explanation why another person, who idolized Jordan growing up has MJ as their GOAT?

hmmm...


Yes. I know the objective reasons why I think Jordan is the GOAT, but I am asking for you to tell me yours.
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Re: Who dominated who more? Bird vs MJ, or Jokic vs LeBron? 

Post#86 » by SportsGuru08 » Sat May 4, 2024 11:33 pm

Proportionally, Jokic's ownage of LeBron is much worse. At least when the Bulls were losing to Boston, it came when Woolridge and Oakley were the No. 2 options respectively.

The Lakers had another Top 75 player in Anthony Davis and the talent disparity between the Lakers and Nuggets was minimal compared to the Celtics/Bulls disparity.
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Re: Who dominated who more? Bird vs MJ, or Jokic vs LeBron? 

Post#87 » by SportsGuru08 » Sat May 4, 2024 11:35 pm

Hair Jordan wrote:
SweaterBae wrote:
ChipotleWest wrote:I've had debates with you before and you are lying right now, MJ is not your GOAT. You know that, and I know that so just drop the act.

Nobody who has MJ as the GOAT obsesses about his 80's losses. He didn't get Scottie until 88 and he was a rookie averaging 8 ppg. He didn't have any great teammates before that, Charles Oakley? Pfff. So I'm on to you just drop the act. Lebron didn't make the playoffs his first two years I don't even care AT ALL, but I only bring that up because it's the same thing you're doing. You have to have a good team to win in the NBA no one does it by their self.


Apparently George Gervin was on those teams!?


Gervin was signed by the Bulls for one season (1985-86) and got some minutes while Jordan was out with a broken foot. He couldn’t get off of the bench in the playoffs and never played another game in the NBA after that season. Don’t pretend for a second that the Bulls had prime Ice.


Plus the Bulls were 20-44 in Jordan's absence, so clearly the Gervin signing didn't to jack s**t for them.
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Re: Who dominated who more? Bird vs MJ, or Jokic vs LeBron? 

Post#88 » by SportsGuru08 » Sat May 4, 2024 11:36 pm

Marrrcuss wrote:
ChipotleWest wrote:
SNPA wrote:Bird owned young Jordan. Jokic is beating grandpa James.


Not at all just total revisionist history, Jordan was playing 1 on 5 against Bird's stacked Celtics team. Jordan won the scoring title and DPOY in 87-88 he was already the guy he just had no teammates.

Lebron missed the playoffs his first two years since we're going to blame someone for being young and not having any teammates, it's the same type of thing. It's like saying he should have beaten a super team then and won the championship it's just ridiculous.

Bird called him God disguised as Michael Jordan.

This is a troll thread made by a Lebron slurper.


How come Orlando Woolridges 21 ppg dont count but Dennis Johnsons 19, Ainge's 17 and Parrish's 17 count?

Hell, Corzine (almost) and Oakley both averaged a double double.


Woolridge shot 33% two of the games, including 9 for 27 in the 63-point game.

Also Kevin McHale averaged 28 PPG, the same amount as Larry. Nice try.
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Re: Who dominated who more? Bird vs MJ, or Jokic vs LeBron? 

Post#89 » by NbaAllDay » Sat May 4, 2024 11:57 pm

The childish commentary is hilarious.

Birds TEAM 'owned' MJs Team.
Jokics TEAM 'owned' Lebrons Team.

Both played better teams, one player was still reaching his peak woth a clearly worse team (MJ).

The other is literally the oldest player in the league (Lebron) playing against a clearly better team.

All other discussion around this is complete nonsense. Thread is a good reminder of those riddled with agendas and bias.
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Re: Who dominated who more? Bird vs MJ, or Jokic vs LeBron? 

Post#90 » by lessthanjake » Sun May 5, 2024 12:00 am

I see the OP isn’t going to actually answer my question—which I think is perhaps quite telling.

Anyways, to actually answer the question posed in this thread, these are mostly just examples of team dominance, where the losing player had a worse team and wasn’t in his best years yet/anymore. And honestly I don’t think either was really dominated when we really look at it. For Jordan, he never beat Bird in the playoffs, but he did individually outplay him in at least one of those series, even despite losing, so I don’t think we can say Bird dominated Jordan. For LeBron, he didn’t individually outplay Jokic in the two lost series, but LeBron’s Lakers did actually face Jokic’s Nuggets when LeBron was younger and had the superior team and Jokic wasn’t in his best years yet, and LeBron’s team won. I don’t think you can say Jokic dominated LeBron when LeBron’s team won 1 out of the 3 playoff series the two teams played. So my answer to the question would be to say neither, since I don’t think either player was actually “dominated.”
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Re: Who dominated who more? Bird vs MJ, or Jokic vs LeBron? 

Post#91 » by Jedi32 » Sun May 5, 2024 12:20 am

KazuoOda wrote:So... A Jokic in his prime vs a LeBron at the end of his career??? Like what are we even talking about. Yall that bored?

Hate makes people's vision blurry. If lebron were in his prime, this wouldn't even be a real discussion imo.
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Re: Who dominated who more? Bird vs MJ, or Jokic vs LeBron? 

Post#92 » by jerok » Sun May 5, 2024 6:31 am

lessthanjake wrote:I see the OP isn’t going to actually answer my question—which I think is perhaps quite telling.

Anyways, to actually answer the question posed in this thread, these are mostly just examples of team dominance, where the losing player had a worse team and wasn’t in his best years yet/anymore. And honestly I don’t think either was really dominated when we really look at it. For Jordan, he never beat Bird in the playoffs, but he did individually outplay him in at least one of those series, even despite losing, so I don’t think we can say Bird dominated Jordan. For LeBron, he didn’t individually outplay Jokic in the two lost series, but LeBron’s Lakers did actually face Jokic’s Nuggets when LeBron was younger and had the superior team and Jokic wasn’t in his best years yet, and LeBron’s team won. I don’t think you can say Jokic dominated LeBron when LeBron’s team won 1 out of the 3 playoff series the two teams played. So my answer to the question would be to say neither, since I don’t think either player was actually “dominated.”


I already answered it, it's not my fault you can't comprehend.
again, my view is closely mirrors Ai's views. are you going to ask him why Jordan is his GOAT, when he clearly states why he is.

Go and read what he said, maybe multiple times, so you can understand what he really means, then maybe, just maybe you'll get it.
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Re: Who dominated who more? Bird vs MJ, or Jokic vs LeBron? 

Post#93 » by lessthanjake » Sun May 5, 2024 2:48 pm

jerok wrote:
lessthanjake wrote:I see the OP isn’t going to actually answer my question—which I think is perhaps quite telling.

Anyways, to actually answer the question posed in this thread, these are mostly just examples of team dominance, where the losing player had a worse team and wasn’t in his best years yet/anymore. And honestly I don’t think either was really dominated when we really look at it. For Jordan, he never beat Bird in the playoffs, but he did individually outplay him in at least one of those series, even despite losing, so I don’t think we can say Bird dominated Jordan. For LeBron, he didn’t individually outplay Jokic in the two lost series, but LeBron’s Lakers did actually face Jokic’s Nuggets when LeBron was younger and had the superior team and Jokic wasn’t in his best years yet, and LeBron’s team won. I don’t think you can say Jokic dominated LeBron when LeBron’s team won 1 out of the 3 playoff series the two teams played. So my answer to the question would be to say neither, since I don’t think either player was actually “dominated.”


I already answered it, it's not my fault you can't comprehend.
again, my view is closely mirrors Ai's views. are you going to ask him why Jordan is his GOAT, when he clearly states why he is.

Go and read what he said, maybe multiple times, so you can understand what he really means, then maybe, just maybe you'll get it.


You refused to give any objective reasons why you think Jordan is the GOAT. Not a single one, even after being asked repeatedly to do so. Only squishy subjective things about your life that have no bearing at all on how good a player Jordan was, and which are obviously things that have no persuasive value whatsoever. And that is as a poster who spends most of his posts bashing Jordan, but tries to give that bashing more credibility by simply stating that Jordan is your GOAT. You say it, but clearly can’t bring yourself to actually post any objective reasons why Jordan is the greatest or why he is objectively greater than LeBron. I think it’s pretty clear what’s going on here.
OhayoKD wrote:Lebron contributes more to all the phases of play than Messi does. And he is of course a defensive anchor unlike messi.
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Re: Who dominated who more? Bird vs MJ, or Jokic vs LeBron? 

Post#94 » by Myth » Sun May 5, 2024 4:33 pm

ChipotleWest wrote:“That wasn't Michael Jordan out there. That was God disguised as Michael Jordan.” - Larry Bird 37 years ago today, a 2nd-year MJ did this in a Playoff loss to the Boston Celtics: 63 PTS (22/41 FG, 0/0 3PT), 6 AST, 5 REB

Yep he really got owned, he should have won that series by himself, says tards. He had more than one drug addict on the team at the time that had to leave the team due to their addiction. :lol:

The same people who love to point out that MJ lost to the Celtics/Pistons are the same ones who complain that the Warriors were not a fair matchup for Lebron’s Cavs. The truth is, the best player in the series is not always on the winning team.
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Re: Who dominated who more? Bird vs MJ, or Jokic vs LeBron? 

Post#95 » by Quattro » Sun May 5, 2024 5:33 pm

jerok wrote:
ChipotleWest wrote:
SNPA wrote:Bird owned young Jordan. Jokic is beating grandpa James.


Not at all just total revisionist history, Jordan was playing 1 on 5 against Bird's stacked Celtics team. Jordan won the scoring title and DPOY in 87-88 he was already the guy he just had no teammates.

Lebron missed the playoffs his first two years since we're going to blame someone for being young and not having any teammates, it's the same type of thing. It's like saying he should have beaten a super team then and won the championship it's just ridiculous.

Bird called him God disguised as Michael Jordan.

This is a troll thread made by a Lebron slurper.

Na MJ is my GOAT. Grew up watching them Bulls.
But I'm not delusional MJ D rider, Like you. I can acknowledge he had flaws. But you get all in your feelings when facts are presented to you about MJ flaws and failures, and you go into spewing mythical legendary stories. LOL.
Let's do this again, don't shy away now.

ChipotleWest wrote:Lebron missed the playoffs his first two years since we're going to blame someone for being young and not having any teammates, it's the same type of thing. It's like saying he should have beaten a super team then and won the championship it's just ridiculous.
What were Jordan's team records in those early playoffs he made? LOL. Please enlighten us.

13 straight loses happened, just as LeBrons 11 straight loses.
So if LeBron loses 11 straight, he got dominated bad, and we crucify him right?
Jordan loses 13 straight, and he gets a pass? Contradicting much?


Apparently, losing to a team with 4 hall of famers in the starting lineup and another on the bench while playing for a bad team is a "flaw".
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Re: Who dominated who more? Bird vs MJ, or Jokic vs LeBron? 

Post#96 » by Quattro » Sun May 5, 2024 5:35 pm

Marrrcuss wrote:
Hair Jordan wrote:
One Last Shot wrote:
Nah. Before LeBron turns 38, he beat Jokic 15 times out of their 23 games when they match-up against each other, they are the only team who eliminated the healthy Nuggets core of Jokic/Jamal/MPJ in 2020 Playoffs series and won an NBA title. Sure, Jokic beat LeBron for 11 straight games when most of the players retired when they reach that age but Larry Bird beat Jordan for 13 straight games in his athletic prime. Even in 2007 when LeBron just 22 years old and the Spurs swept them in the Finals, atleast LeBron swept that same Spurs championship core in the regular season.


Jordan got swept by a team with 5 HOF (Bird, McHale, Parish, DJ and Walton) in addition to 2 more All Stars (Ainge and Wedman). Lebron got swept and gentlemen swept by a team with 1 HOF (Jokic)

Did they all play at a HOF level in 1986 or nah? Was Dennis Johnson an upper echelon guard that year? Walton averaged 7 points but youre selling him like he was HIM. Wedman averaged 8.


Uhh, yes and yes???
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Re: Who dominated who more? Bird vs MJ, or Jokic vs LeBron? 

Post#97 » by SNPA » Sun May 5, 2024 5:46 pm

Just for funnizies, let’s remember Bird stuck it to prime Jordan too.

Here is Bird hitting a game winner over a Pippen/Jordan double team when everyone in the building knew he was getting the ball.

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/1kpxik/larry_bird_game_winner_over_scottie_pippen_and/?rdt=39420
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Re: Who dominated who more? Bird vs MJ, or Jokic vs LeBron? 

Post#98 » by Biff » Sun May 5, 2024 7:14 pm

Weird post. Bird was in his prime and Jordan was early career. Lebron is late 30's and Jokic is in his prime.
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Re: Who dominated who more? Bird vs MJ, or Jokic vs LeBron? 

Post#99 » by Edrees » Sun May 5, 2024 8:01 pm

Does this mean that tim duncan got owned by derek
Fisher like 5 times? The all time record is heavily in fishers favor.

Bro, since :banghead: jokic entered the league, lebron has 2 titles and jokic 1. Lmao what domination. :banghead:
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Re: Who dominated who more? Bird vs MJ, or Jokic vs LeBron? 

Post#100 » by jerok » Tue May 7, 2024 5:11 am

lessthanjake wrote:
jerok wrote:
lessthanjake wrote:I see the OP isn’t going to actually answer my question—which I think is perhaps quite telling.

Anyways, to actually answer the question posed in this thread, these are mostly just examples of team dominance, where the losing player had a worse team and wasn’t in his best years yet/anymore. And honestly I don’t think either was really dominated when we really look at it. For Jordan, he never beat Bird in the playoffs, but he did individually outplay him in at least one of those series, even despite losing, so I don’t think we can say Bird dominated Jordan. For LeBron, he didn’t individually outplay Jokic in the two lost series, but LeBron’s Lakers did actually face Jokic’s Nuggets when LeBron was younger and had the superior team and Jokic wasn’t in his best years yet, and LeBron’s team won. I don’t think you can say Jokic dominated LeBron when LeBron’s team won 1 out of the 3 playoff series the two teams played. So my answer to the question would be to say neither, since I don’t think either player was actually “dominated.”


I already answered it, it's not my fault you can't comprehend.
again, my view is closely mirrors Ai's views. are you going to ask him why Jordan is his GOAT, when he clearly states why he is.

Go and read what he said, maybe multiple times, so you can understand what he really means, then maybe, just maybe you'll get it.


You refused to give any objective reasons why you think Jordan is the GOAT. Not a single one, even after being asked repeatedly to do so. Only squishy subjective things about your life that have no bearing at all on how good a player Jordan was, and which are obviously things that have no persuasive value whatsoever. And that is as a poster who spends most of his posts bashing Jordan, but tries to give that bashing more credibility by simply stating that Jordan is your GOAT. You say it, but clearly can’t bring yourself to actually post any objective reasons why Jordan is the greatest or why he is objectively greater than LeBron. I think it’s pretty clear what’s going on here.


If you are a true MJ fan, you don't need another MJ fan to tell you how good he was.

Problem with you is, and most delusional MJ/90s fan, you can't accept facts that players get better. Lebron is the better overall player, another player in the near future will surpass LeBron as the best overall basketball player, and that is ok, just nature of sports and athlete evolution. It happens in every sport, basketball is not exempt from it.

Unlike you, I appreciate all players and don't hate on any.
I don't bash Jordan, I just point out that he wasn't perfect and all the delusional fans like yourself can't handle it.
That is why I revel when I get people like you in their feelings about 90s basketball and thinking MJ was a mythical creature. Cause no matter how you try to twist it, you can't win an argument when you are presented with facts, and you are coming back with myths and legends.

No matter how good players get, now or in the future, There will never be a player that had an impact on me than MJ did, that is why he is my GOAT and if you can't wrap your mind around that, that is on you not me.

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