How Steve Ballmer’s blind competitiveness will destroy the Clippers.

[OkcSinceSGA]

You are speaking from the perspective of someone that hasn’t endured 20+ years of mostly bad Clippers seasons. I’m speaking as someone who was there for the Olowokandi era. As for you “can develop” young talent while keeping the core, sure a smart team could. But the Clippers aren’t smart and literally don’t play these guys even a minute, or even garbage time usually.

So it’s a literal dichotomy of them either playing an aging, injury team, ball pounding, not entertaining team that isn’t good enough to win… or playing young talent to develop them. They won’t do both.

As for the actual talent, I disagree. Kobe, Boston, Miller decimated the G League and were in MVP race. I realize it’s just the G League, but clearly they can play basketball. Bones has already shown he can be a contributing bench player and his defense was way better this year. They aren’t going to be stars but I guarantee you 2 of those 4 can be mid level starters some day.

These type of finds and development are vital to ANY team wishing to contend. Zubac for example was signed for just 7 million per year, an incredible value. The team needs several situations like that.

I mean I get it, but once again you don't just decide to let 2 all-star caliber players walk to develop Kobe. Boston or Miller. These guys aren't exactly young and if they weren't good enough to crack the rotation for Lue in the RS then they simply just aren't good. Using G league stats is a giant waste of time because the talent disparity is so just so glaring.

You also just proved my point admitting that the Clippers aren't exactly smart and don't have that track record of internally developing guys. Hoping that a few of these prospects turn into a mid level starter is just a losing strategy through and through. Any way you slice it, without James and PG back next season, the Clippers would be down in the cellar with the likes of Blazers.

I don't disagree that they need to find way to develop younger talent on the cheap, but that has to go hand-in-hand with having the marquee guys to slot them around.

There are several players that don’t get played or utilized by coaches at once place, and go on to kill it somewhere else. Just because Lue doesn’t play them, that’s not indicative of the talent you actually have. The same Lue also plays Plumlee as the backup big when we have 2 superior backup bigs he DNP’s. He also wouldn’t stop playing Marcus Morris and Tucker. It means nothing other than he’s not playing the right guys.

[OkcSinceSGA]

I mean they could have won a title if Kawhi actually played.

Hmm.. where have I heard this before? Maybe the last 5 years?

I mean facts are facts:

2020: Bubble...team was out of shape and blew a 3-1 lead to Denver.
2021: Kawhi gets hurt in the 2nd against Utah and the Clippers still win and take the Suns to 6. If Kawhi was healthy they easily win that year.
2022: Kawhi got hurt in game 4 of the 1st round and missed the playoffs.
2023: Kawhi misses season and playoffs.
2024: Kawhi plays 1 game in the 1st round so far.

So essentially he's only played in 1 full playoff run in 5 years and that was in the bubble.

So you agree their best shot was in 2021 (we agree they likely would have won it all) and that Kawhi’s health cannot be counted on. So we should agree it’s likely not going to suddenly change as he approaches 34 years old.

[Dominator83]

I think the bubble title definitely counts, but it’s an outlier for many reasons. It also took LeBron, the 2nd best player in history (even in his decline) and a fluky bonkers shooting run by AD. I personally think multiple teams such as the Clippers were mentally checked out that bubble. So even IF we count that, it’s insanely rare and not dependable. The Clippers don’t have a LeBron type iron man superstar.

Boston also did it in 2008.

You can do it, but people who try to buy their way into NBA title, usually fail. This aint Europe, you cant just buy everyone you want, shortcuts in the NBA usually lead to dead ends.

Every avenue is hard. We really don't see teams tanking into eventual championships either. The closest was OKC Durant years

[Jadoogar]

Boston also did it in 2008.

You can do it, but people who try to buy their way into NBA title, usually fail. This aint Europe, you cant just buy everyone you want, shortcuts in the NBA usually lead to dead ends.

Every avenue is hard. We really don't see teams tanking into eventual championships either. The closest was OKC Durant years

you need a mix of trades and drafted players (and of course, luck). Raptors drafted most of their core but they don't win without trading for Kawhi and Gasol. Bucks built their team with Giannis and MIddleton but they don't win without trading for Holiday

[Dominator83]

You CANNOT win a title without the draft. You CANNOT buy a title like you can in baseball by throwing money at things. Ballmer has a blind loyalty to Lawrence Frank, Lue, Kawhi. He is so desperate to always win, that he spent this summer doing media rounds talking about how he will never “tank” or be bad for any period of time.

He made it clear that he will not allow a rebuild. So in line with that philosophy, the Clippers have continued to give away draft picks, pushing their picks from 2026 or 2027 to basically 2030 now with the Harden trade.

But this incredible blind spot is likely to rob him of ever winning at a high level. It may be odd to theorize this, considering they came from an opposite kind of owner. One who never spent money, didn’t care at all about winning.

Ballmer has the opposite extreme mindset. Passion is great, desire to win is great. If it doesn’t include awareness or balance in team building (win now vs win long term) it will still lead to the same result (no title).

What would I tell Ballmer? It’s okay to be bad for a year or two while you make changes. It’s okay to develop young guys like Bones, Kobe Brown, Boston Jr, Kai Jones, Diabate for a year or two. What really is the difference in winning 51 games and being out in the first round vs winning 40 and not making the playoffs?

The Clippers current plan should be now that they stupidly re-signed Kawhi 3 years early for no reason… to take a year off. Nuke the front office and coaching staff. Rest Kawhi a lot next year. The following summer they have 115+ million in cap space in a shiny new arena in LA.

The goal next year would be to let Kawhi heal his knee, play the hell out of young guys to see if one of them pans out. Try out a few G league or undrafted guys looking for a gem. Basically make it one huge audition year for young talent since you don’t have valuable draft picks. Sign and trade PG who will pick up his player option, and let Harden walk.

Who cares about sunken cost. Let them go, hit the reset. Maybe you’ll get lucky and Kawhi will retire early.

The team across the hallway literally did just that in 2020

I think the bubble title definitely counts, but it’s an outlier for many reasons. It also took LeBron, the 2nd best player in history (even in his decline) and a fluky bonkers shooting run by AD. I personally think multiple teams such as the Clippers were mentally checked out that bubble. So even IF we count that, it’s insanely rare and not dependable. The Clippers don’t have a LeBron type iron man superstar.

And to add to my OP, the Lakers did try the organic way. Collected 3 straight #2 overall picks and a #7. It produced Randle, Russell, Ingram, Lonzo. That core was going nowhere and still would have gone nowhere.

I still like building thru the draft don't get me wrong. But it's not the guaranteed greatness that fans seem to think always works

[TheGeneral99]

Hmm.. where have I heard this before? Maybe the last 5 years?

I mean facts are facts:

2020: Bubble...team was out of shape and blew a 3-1 lead to Denver.
2021: Kawhi gets hurt in the 2nd against Utah and the Clippers still win and take the Suns to 6. If Kawhi was healthy they easily win that year.
2022: Kawhi got hurt in game 4 of the 1st round and missed the playoffs.
2023: Kawhi misses season and playoffs.
2024: Kawhi plays 1 game in the 1st round so far.

So essentially he's only played in 1 full playoff run in 5 years and that was in the bubble.

So you agree their best shot was in 2021 (we agree they likely would have won it all) and that Kawhi’s health cannot be counted on. So we should agree it’s likely not going to suddenly change as he approaches 34 years old.

Sure I agree with that.

But your whole premise is flawed because if Kawhi was healthy it would have been worth it.

He hasn't been healthy and it didn't work out.

[OkcSinceSGA]

The team across the hallway literally did just that in 2020

I think the bubble title definitely counts, but it’s an outlier for many reasons. It also took LeBron, the 2nd best player in history (even in his decline) and a fluky bonkers shooting run by AD. I personally think multiple teams such as the Clippers were mentally checked out that bubble. So even IF we count that, it’s insanely rare and not dependable. The Clippers don’t have a LeBron type iron man superstar.

And to add to my OP, the Lakers did try the organic way. Collected 3 straight #2 overall picks and a #7. It produced Randle, Russell, Ingram, Lonzo. That core was going nowhere and still would have gone nowhere.

I still like building thru the draft don't get me wrong. But it's not the guaranteed greatness that fans seem to think always works

I think the perfect scenario or most likely to win seems to be a mix of drafted talent, with key added pieces via trade or free agency. But the Clippers process and foundation is so poor.

[OkcSinceSGA]

I mean facts are facts:

2020: Bubble...team was out of shape and blew a 3-1 lead to Denver.
2021: Kawhi gets hurt in the 2nd against Utah and the Clippers still win and take the Suns to 6. If Kawhi was healthy they easily win that year.
2022: Kawhi got hurt in game 4 of the 1st round and missed the playoffs.
2023: Kawhi misses season and playoffs.
2024: Kawhi plays 1 game in the 1st round so far.

So essentially he's only played in 1 full playoff run in 5 years and that was in the bubble.

So you agree their best shot was in 2021 (we agree they likely would have won it all) and that Kawhi’s health cannot be counted on. So we should agree it’s likely not going to suddenly change as he approaches 34 years old.

No I didn't say that.

But your whole premise is flawed because if Kawhi was healthy it would have been worth it.

He hasn't been healthy and it didn't work out.

You can’t use this excuse every year lol. You literally sold the farm for a guy with a known degenerative knee issue and multiple knee surgeries and just keep saying “If Kawhi was healthy!” Every year lol. It’s comical that it’s an acceptable proclamation for people.

It would be like putting together a team like the Jail Blazers together and saying “well only if they weren’t headcases!”. Well no ****, that’s literally the problem you knew before.

[BlzMwt]

I'm sure Kawhi is going to be down for this lol

[bstein14]

Ballmer did allow Jerry West to trade away Blake and get picks early on and then they had the goal to use that cap space instead on Leonard and the team delivered. The wrong move was to mortgage the future for PG13.

LA and Miami are by far the two most desired FA destinations so the Clippers might get another gift of a FA if they eventually do the smart thing and do a full reset.

[TheGeneral99]

So you agree their best shot was in 2021 (we agree they likely would have won it all) and that Kawhi’s health cannot be counted on. So we should agree it’s likely not going to suddenly change as he approaches 34 years old.

No I didn't say that.

But your whole premise is flawed because if Kawhi was healthy it would have been worth it.

He hasn't been healthy and it didn't work out.

You can’t use this excuse every year lol. You literally sold the farm for a guy with a known degenerative knee issue and multiple knee surgeries and just keep saying “If Kawhi was healthy!” Every year lol. It’s comical that it’s an acceptable proclamation for people.

It would be like putting together a team like the Jail Blazers together and saying “well only if they weren’t headcases!”. Well no ****, that’s literally the problem you knew before.

His multiple knee surgeries came after they signed him, but yeah it was a risk for sure.

I mean the main idiot here was Kawhi.

Kawhi should have stayed with the Raptors for two more years and run it back. Raptors likely would have won in 2020 had Kawhi stayed given that they took Boston to 7 games and were a tough match-up for the Lakers having Ibaka and Gasol to guard AD. The Raptors also had a very good team that could have load managed him easily like the season before.

Then in 2021, Kawhi could have joined the Clippers with George as a free agent while keeping Shai and their draft picks. Kawhi, George and Shai would have been lethal.

[OkcSinceSGA]

No I didn't say that.

But your whole premise is flawed because if Kawhi was healthy it would have been worth it.

He hasn't been healthy and it didn't work out.

You can’t use this excuse every year lol. You literally sold the farm for a guy with a known degenerative knee issue and multiple knee surgeries and just keep saying “If Kawhi was healthy!” Every year lol. It’s comical that it’s an acceptable proclamation for people.

It would be like putting together a team like the Jail Blazers together and saying “well only if they weren’t headcases!”. Well no ****, that’s literally the problem you knew before.

His multiple knee surgeries came after they signed him, but yeah it was a risk for sure.

I mean the main idiot here was Kawhi.

Kawhi should have stayed with the Raptors for two more years and run it back. Raptors likely would have won in 2020 had Kawhi stayed given that they took Boston to 7 games and were a tough match-up for the Lakers having Ibaka and Gasol to guard AD.

Then in 2021, Kawhi could have joined the Clippers with George as a free agent while keeping Shai and their draft picks.

I agree that would have been great for the Raptors and Clips.

[OkcSinceSGA]

I'm sure Kawhi is going to be down for this lol

Considering how much long term destruction him and Uncle Dennis indirectly brought the Clippers, he can deal with it.

[dirkdiggler4177]

It's very easy to say that, but the only thing that has been stopping them is Kawhi's injury. You could argue for trading him, but injured players have very low trade value. Especially since the other team is going like this: you have a superstar, yes, he is injured, but how injured is he since you are trading him?
It's like the Sixers suddenly starting trade talk around Embiid. They would get absolutely nothing for him.

[OkcSinceSGA]

It's very easy to say that, but the only thing that has been stopping them is Kawhi's injury. You could argue for trading him, but injured players have very low trade value. Especially since the other team is going like this: you have a superstar, yes, he is injured, but how injured is he since you are trading him?
It's like the Sixers suddenly starting trade talk around Embiid. They would get absolutely nothing for him.

In 2021 sure. Clippers probably win the title. In the other years I think it’s equally PG’s erratic play and the team’s defense. Not just Kawhi’s health.

[NZB2323]

How well were the Clippers doing without Ballmer?

[OkcSinceSGA]

How well were the Clippers doing without Ballmer?

I mean the best year in Lob City was 13-14, so they were fine. The Clippers in 2012-2014 were at their peak. The games and fans were much more lively and sold out every game. Sure Ballmer overall is a good owner, but his blind spot of refusing to take a step back to take two forward can continue being a huge problem in this era.

[God Squad]

Selfishly I hope they never win a title and so far things are playing out as planned.

[ThunderBolt]

Remember what the clippers were when they didn’t have a competitive owner?

[OkcSinceSGA]

Remember what the clippers were when they didn’t have a competitive owner?

Yes. I didn’t miss a single game from 1998 to 2013 or so. But just because one owner was worse, doesn’t mean there isn’t a problem today.