How Steve Ballmer’s blind competitiveness will destroy the Clippers.

[JJ_PR]

This thread is awkward coming from an OKC fan, since OKC owns all of the Clipper draft picks.

Regardless, there's no point in tanking if you're the Clippers, since they don't own any of their own picks.

I think they have a nice roster capable of making a deep run. They just got unlucky with the Mavs being their first-round opponent.

[Jadoogar]

So you agree their best shot was in 2021 (we agree they likely would have won it all) and that Kawhi’s health cannot be counted on. So we should agree it’s likely not going to suddenly change as he approaches 34 years old.

No I didn't say that.

But your whole premise is flawed because if Kawhi was healthy it would have been worth it.

He hasn't been healthy and it didn't work out.

You can’t use this excuse every year lol. You literally sold the farm for a guy with a known degenerative knee issue and multiple knee surgeries and just keep saying “If Kawhi was healthy!” Every year lol. It’s comical that it’s an acceptable proclamation for people.

It would be like putting together a team like the Jail Blazers together and saying “well only if they weren’t headcases!”. Well no ****, that’s literally the problem you knew before.

Clippers took a risky all-in swing. If it hits, it's a massive homerun and no one questions the trades. It's similar to tanking and hoping the #1 pick is worth it. When it works, everyone says you're smart. If you tank and don't get the number 1 pick or the #1 pick turns out to be Ben Simmons or Andrew Wiggins everyone laughs and says you tanked for nothing.

When you take a risk, there is a chance it doesn't work out. The upside from the Kawhi trade was building a consistent contender and maybe winning a title. The downside was what we got. To be me, that's a worthwhile risk.

[og15]

It's not true that you cannot "buy" a title, in the sense of using free agency and trading assets to get there. Many teams have won by trading and free agency. But you can't buy a title with injury prone guys. Winning is best accomplished by giving yourself multiple opportunities, because you can't always win.

The Clippers team he bought have had 1 chance which was their first season together. Just doesn't work in that scenario.

The evaluation would be different if Kawhi was a yearly 70 games guy who didn't break down every post-season. He hasn't been, but that doesn't then disprove that you can "buy" a championship, because trying to win via free agency and trades doesn't automatically mean you get a constantly injured best player.

[OkcSinceSGA]

It's not true that you cannot "buy" a title, in the sense of using free agency and trading assets to get there. Many teams have won by trading and free agency. But you can't buy a title with injury prone guys. Winning is best accomplished by giving yourself multiple opportunities, because you can't always win.

The Clippers team he bought have had 1 chance which was their first season together. Just doesn't work in that scenario.

The evaluation would be different if Kawhi was a yearly 70 games guy who didn't break down every post-season. He hasn't been, but that doesn't then disprove that you can "buy" a championship, because trying to win via free agency and trades doesn't automatically mean you get a constantly injured best player.

But they literally knew that when they signed him lol. So then why the 3 year extension recently? Also 2021 was the better chance. So technically they had a 2 year window.

[MarcusBrody]

To win a championship in the NBA, you almost always need a player who is MVP-level. That's the hardest thing to find in the NBA. Kawhi was on the edge of that level, and in the right situation, he proved he could be the lead guy for a title team, so I understand why the Clippers went all in on that as those guys aren't available often. He's still playing well when he plays, but I don't think he will ever again really be at that level. Certainly not in two years when he's 34 going on 35. His strength has never been dictating the flow of the game/offense and that becomes increasingly problematic as a center piece especially as his body just won't hold up to the parts of the game that he is good at. Still, I agree that extending him was a bad move.

The problem is that tanking is also generally a pretty ineffective plan. What team in the last decade has become a real contender via tanking? I guess technically the 2014 Spurs, but that tanking had been 15+ years before. It does seem like the best case scenario/analogue though with the declining Robinson in the Kawhi role. The 76ers tried hard and so far have failed. OKC might yet prove to get good value on their tank, but they didn't get their star from the draft (I somehow can't really remember how he came to be on the Thunder...). So we shall see.

[og15]

It's not true that you cannot "buy" a title, in the sense of using free agency and trading assets to get there. Many teams have won by trading and free agency. But you can't buy a title with injury prone guys. Winning is best accomplished by giving yourself multiple opportunities, because you can't always win.

The Clippers team he bought have had 1 chance which was their first season together. Just doesn't work in that scenario.

The evaluation would be different if Kawhi was a yearly 70 games guy who didn't break down every post-season. He hasn't been, but that doesn't then disprove that you can "buy" a championship, because trying to win via free agency and trades doesn't automatically mean you get a constantly injured best player.

But they literally knew that when they signed him lol. So then why the 3 year extension recently? Also 2021 was the better chance. So technically they had a 2 year window.

Certainly, the Clippers took a gamble, and they interestingly extended the gamble after time showed it wasn't really paying off. The initial one makes sense, the second one is questionable, but we can see the reasons.

All that aside, the general statement that you can't "buy" a title simply isn't true.

Whether the Clippers attempt at it and continued path toward it is good though, that's a different question.

[Astaluego]

You need to be lucky as well as talented to win, you can't blame Ballmer in any way, he did his job, since in my opinion they have enough talent to win, luck just wasn't on their side... Kawhi was pretty good healthy this year and playing very well, he got hurt at the most inopportune moment... I hope it doesn't happen, but there is a world where the Clippers eliminate the Mavs and KL comes back healthy for the semifinals? Why in that scenario are they as dangerous as any

[CS707]

Balmer is the definition of failing up. He’s Tom Wambsgans if Tom ever got the keys to the kingdom. Just a dummy that’s always been fortunate to be a cog in a machine too big to fail.

[OkcSinceSGA]

You need to be lucky as well as talented to win, you can't blame Ballmer in any way, he did his job, since in my opinion they have enough talent to win, luck just wasn't on their side... Kawhi was pretty good healthy this year and playing very well, he got hurt at the most inopportune moment... I hope it doesn't happen, but there is a world where the Clippers eliminate the Mavs and KL comes back healthy for the semifinals? Why in that scenario are they as dangerous as any

Watch video from 2 days of Kawhi even shooting uncontested shots. He literally cannot jump. He’s shooting on the ground. He’s cooked

[Edrees]

I mean they could have won a title if Kawhi actually played.

Hmm.. where have I heard this before? Maybe the last 5 years?

People forget Kawhi was healthy and they blew a 3-1 series lead to Denver. Evidence points that with a healthy Kawhi they are more competitive but find a way to choke it all away anyway.

The one time they had a fully healthy team they blew a 3-1 series lead, and Kawhi scored like 0 points in a half in an elimination game 7. Stop living in fantasy land people.

[donkki]

I mean they could have won a title if Kawhi actually played.

This is exactly why I don't understand all this reset-talk. They are just there, one of the biggest favorites to win the title right now (without injuries).

[LaLover11]

Trade PG-13 to Warriors for Kuminga/Wiggins
Trade Kawhi for Durant

[Jakay]

Sounds good but it is not going to happen. Ballmer is not going into new arena with a G league squad. They will pay James and PG and run it back again and again.

Yes, you are probably right. But it’s also NOT the right move at all from a basketball standpoint.

But it also IS the right move at all from a business standpoint.

[theforumblue]

You can’t use this excuse every year lol. You literally sold the farm for a guy with a known degenerative knee issue and multiple knee surgeries and just keep saying “If Kawhi was healthy!” Every year lol. It’s comical that it’s an acceptable proclamation for people.

it's still a little weird when i remember you used to such a diehard fan.

[OkcSinceSGA]

You can’t use this excuse every year lol. You literally sold the farm for a guy with a known degenerative knee issue and multiple knee surgeries and just keep saying “If Kawhi was healthy!” Every year lol. It’s comical that it’s an acceptable proclamation for people.

it's still a little weird when i remember you used to such a diehard fan.

Maybe OG can chime in but I was always big on criticism, accountability and leaned more into the pessimistic category. There were times I believed and got into homer mode, but when they fail.. few are harder on them. Which is why I gained the reputation of being overly emotional and having “meltdowns” (which is true, I did do that).

[FarBeyondDriven]

Ballmer is a perfect example of a guy being over his skiis. Just because you make money in one industry does not mean those skills that allowed that will translate to another. I don't think he's actually very bright tbh. He massively overpaid for the Clippers. He's been massively overpaying for overrated players and coaches ever since. He'll keep getting finessed and keep throwing money at this team and he'll never sniff a championship. It's because he's got so much throwaway money and doesn't understand basketball, not blindness that has caused this.

[FarBeyondDriven]

The team across the hallway literally did just that in 2020

I think the bubble title definitely counts, but it’s an outlier for many reasons. It also took LeBron, the 2nd best player in history (even in his decline) and a fluky bonkers shooting run by AD. I personally think multiple teams such as the Clippers were mentally checked out that bubble. So even IF we count that, it’s insanely rare and not dependable. The Clippers don’t have a LeBron type iron man superstar.

Boston also did it in 2008.

they drafted Pierce, Rondo and Perkins and used draft assets and recently drafted players to acquire KG and Allen

[PushDaRock]

Can any team win a championship without their best player? That's really what it all comes down to.

[GrandTheftRondo]

Clippers will probably eventually get it right.

Tread water maybe for a bit after Kawhi etc move on.

Balmer is that rich he can afford to just keep paying whoever and LA will continually be a draw card for trade and free agent targets. Plus you have the advantage of less spotlight at the Clippers compared to LA.

[GrandTheftRondo]

Boston also did it in 2008.

You can do it, but people who try to buy their way into NBA title, usually fail. This aint Europe, you cant just buy everyone you want, shortcuts in the NBA usually lead to dead ends.

Every avenue is hard. We really don't see teams tanking into eventual championships either. The closest was OKC Durant years

Exactly. There is really no right or wrong way.

The Lakers completely butchered their rebuild trying to build through Ingram etc and just went out and got LeBron and AD.

There is no right or wrong way of doing things.

Especially when your team is based in LA and your owner is as wildly rich as Balmer is