Toronto

[tsherkin]

Seems like they waited too long to trade OG / Siakam. Do you guys think you're well positioned now?

Lord, no, lol.

[dickfox]

Too much isolation drive and kicks and the shooters couldn't hit shots consistently.

They were scary in transition but got bogged down in the half court which is what playoff basketball is all about.

[SeanDaRyan]

Nurse is a terrible coach. He played the starters 35min a game...never gave the bench any mins at all. Ran his starters into the ground so they were injured all the time and limped into the post season completely out of gas.

That being said Nurse was the right coach at the right time to win a championship. I dont see him coaching Philly much longer

[Anticon]

Lots of problems as others have outlined with fit, defence and three points shooting.

But main problem was a lack of natural scorers. Fred was the closest but was too small and easily blocked.

Siakam, OG and Barnes all had automatic parts to their offensive the game (Siakam at the elbow, OG in the corner, and Barnes around the rim) but were overall too clunky and not fluid.

Combine them all and you got a horrendous half court offense as the offensive options on every play were really limited and they couldn't initiate even what they did well. So they focused on turnovers and transition scoring which of course isn't sustainable.

I do think there was a chance at building a team around Fred, Siakam and OG. But once they drafted Barnes the roster was too limited and the failure was inevitable. In some ways moving up in the draft that year, but not high enough to get Mobley or Cade, was the end of that team.

[tdotrep2]

they played scottie barnes like he was pj tucker and let fred dribble the ball with no spacing as oppose to letting scottie/siakam dribble and fred space. it was freds contract year

[Jabroni Lames]

Nick Nurse is the only coach in the NBA where his cult followers believe it’s a perfectly normal excuse to say he was given too much talent to work with.

It’s been truly entertaining to see the Nurse cult try to explain why Nurse not getting out of the first round is a resounding success.

[gbball]

How did Toronto w/Siakam, OG &Barnes leading the way not do better in the playoffs the Last few seasons ? Had Trent Jr to shoot & a decent pt guard too + Nic Nurse is a damn good coach, smh

I think bad team chemistry, uninspired coaching and bad luck did them in last year with Nurse. Fred/Trent/Siakam were playing for contracts...Nurse didn't/wouldn't invest in his bench and he would burn out the starters by the end of the game and have them take turns isoing to choke winnable games away.

This year, I think OG was checked out and everyone else was exploring their roles while learning a new system where different things were valued. Not having Koloko who projected to be an elite rim protector really hurt. We had flashes of being a dominant team, but new coach, more emphasis on offense, questionable officiating and bad injury luck derailed our season before we made the Siakam trade and later pivoted to a tank.

Ironically, I do think Precious, Flynn, OG and Siakam all look like improved players based on their time with Darko this year...it just didn't come together fully on our team.

[doogie_hauser]

Nick Nurse is a championship coach for one of the smaller market teams that have always struggled to attract big name talent to their franchise (taxes and Canadian currency a factor)

I don't like the guy particularly much, but it was a phenomenal effort to coach that team to a historical first championship, esp against Steph and The Dubs.

More respect should be given to him and that championship.

[TheAlchemist]

The problem was simple:
3 players played the same position. Scottie, OG, and Siakam. I don't know why we didn't hold onto Siakam post OG trade, but seem like he was going to leave no matter what.

We are much better now that we have balance, it doesn't show yet but next year we'll be talked about again.

[rapluva]

Not many Raptor fans have them pegged to make the playoffs..they say play-in..

With Barnes/RJ Barrett/ Imanuel Quickley/Poetel in the starting lineup with a decent shooter..

We need a decent point guard..along with a backup center that is decent.

[Jabroni Lames]

There was zero overlap between Scottie & OG. That narrative is categorically false.

OG occupied the corners, Scottie operated in the post and above the break.

Siakam/Barnes/OG had a +3.4 net rating this year and a +3.6 net rating last year.

There was zero problem with that trio’s fit. Do people even check the numbers before they spew false narratives?

[Jabroni Lames]

Pascal, OG and Barbes essentially play same position, their game does excell in different ways, but the fit was clunky. I think there is a reason why basketball is played the way it is, and why positions exist still. Similar case with Phoenix this year I guess, individually, these players were good.

Also, sometimes it can be as easy as, do you have best player to close out the game. These 3 weren't that.

Positive net rating for that trio +3.6 with Nurse & +3.4 with Darko. Try again.

It was Nurse’s inability to optimize anybody other than FVV & Siakam as well as his stubbornness sticking to his defensive schemes that were figured out years earlier, that caused the Raptors to under-perform.

[ItsDanger]

Too many fans won't admit half court shot creation matters a lot for team success. Until then, excuses are made ignoring the obvious reality. Even when observing current playoff teams, they won't acknowledge the obvious difference.

Recent Raptors teams have struggled scoring in the half court. Priority #1 should be addressing that.

[raptor jesus]

Poor depth and shooting and skill, because the front office was obssessed with 6'9 guys regardless of skill level. Defensively, the team stopped buying in to Nurse's defensive strategy because of how much effort it required on a nightly basis, and the league caught up to Nurse (his zones and gimmicky defences became less effective) and he refused to adjust.

[tsherkin]

Recent Raptors teams have struggled scoring in the half court. Priority #1 should be addressing that.

Very much so, but we have also ranked poorly from 3.

2022: 19th in volume, 20th in 3P%, 27th in pace
2023: 21st in volume, 28th in shooting, 26th in pace
2024: 22nd in volume, 27th in shooting, 11th in pace

That has not helped. And obviously post-Lowry, we didn't have any kind of quality POA dribble attack until Quickley. And we weren't running again until this season.

We have been a possession-control team (very strong on the O-boards and at avoiding turnovers) and have sucked at hitting shots from basically everywhere. This was what happened when we fielded a bunch of inefficient scorers without dynamic penetration or setup. Our offense has been a disaster; it was worse this year relative to league average than it had been since the 2012 lockout. And our rankings in previous seasons have been propped up by ORB% and TOV% as much as anything, because we've ranked 21st, 27th, 28th and 21st in team eFG% going back to 2021.

It'd be more accurate to say we just flat-out struggled to score.

[ItsDanger]

Recent Raptors teams have struggled scoring in the half court. Priority #1 should be addressing that.

Very much so, but we have also ranked poorly from 3.

2022: 19th in volume, 20th in 3P%, 27th in pace
2023: 21st in volume, 28th in shooting, 26th in pace
2024: 22nd in volume, 27th in shooting, 11th in pace

That has not helped. And obviously post-Lowry, we didn't have any kind of quality POA dribble attack until Quickley. And we weren't running again until this season.

We have been a possession-control team (very strong on the O-boards and at avoiding turnovers) and have sucked at hitting shots from basically everywhere. This was what happened when we fielded a bunch of inefficient scorers without dynamic penetration or setup. Our offense has been a disaster; it was worse this year relative to league average than it had been since the 2012 lockout. And our rankings in previous seasons have been propped up by ORB% and TOV% as much as anything, because we've ranked 21st, 27th, 28th and 21st in team eFG% going back to 2021.

It'd be more accurate to say we just flat-out struggled to score.

Disagree. Prior to last season, Raps had one of best transition offenses in the league. Its half court offense especially back end of shot clock that's the problem. Essentially, a talent deficit. Debatable if management will address this.

[tsherkin]

Disagree. Prior to last season, Raps had one of best transition offenses in the league. Its half court offense especially back end of shot clock that's the problem. Essentially, a talent deficit. Debatable if management will address this.

Our halfcourt offense was a large problem, I agree.

But again, because we were so slow, our transition opportunities were only so many. But it's one of those things evolving over the past couple of seasons. For example, we were 14th in transition efficiency this year, 16th in 2023, 24th in 2022, 19th in 2021, and it was only back in 2020 when we were any good. And we were quite good, ranking 3rd in the league.

So no, we have not had one of the best transition offenses, not for about half a decade. We've actually been average to poor in the last several seasons.

[UcanUwill]

Pascal, OG and Barbes essentially play same position, their game does excell in different ways, but the fit was clunky. I think there is a reason why basketball is played the way it is, and why positions exist still. Similar case with Phoenix this year I guess, individually, these players were good.

Also, sometimes it can be as easy as, do you have best player to close out the game. These 3 weren't that.

Positive net rating for that trio +3.6 with Nurse & +3.4 with Darko. Try again.

It was Nurse’s inability to optimize anybody other than FVV & Siakam as well as his stubbornness sticking to his defensive schemes that were figured out years earlier, that caused the Raptors to under-perform.

Yeah, ok, it was depth problem as knowledgeable posters have pointed out, and positive rating doesnt mean fit could have been better as they in fact had 3 good forwards as you clearly show, but lacked sustainability in other areas. If one of the forwards was PG and obe was a C, maybe positive rating would have been better all across the board?

You really need to quote me twice in two days to show me there is some kind off fool obsessed with Nick Nurse? War is f'ing happening, get a life, I dont give a f** Nick Nurse ***ed your wife...

Sorry, bad mood, I have bigger issues than NBA coach being bad, if you so passionate,maybe later I will like to read your expose analysis where Nick Nurse failed, beside talent good, result bad stuff. Where is your piece published? But for now, let us both sit in a corner and rethink our lives, maybe?

[Dirk]

Pascal, OG and Barbes essentially play same position, their game does excell in different ways, but the fit was clunky. I think there is a reason why basketball is played the way it is, and why positions exist still. Similar case with Phoenix this year I guess, individually, these players were good.

Also, sometimes it can be as easy as, do you have best player to close out the game. These 3 weren't that.

Positive net rating for that trio +3.6 with Nurse & +3.4 with Darko. Try again.

It was Nurse’s inability to optimize anybody other than FVV & Siakam as well as his stubbornness sticking to his defensive schemes that were figured out years earlier, that caused the Raptors to under-perform.

Yeah, ok, it was depth problem as knowledgeable posters have pointed out, and positive rating doesnt mean fit could have been better as they in fact had 3 good forwards as you clearly show, but lacked sustainability in other areas. If one of the forwards was PG and obe was a C, maybe positive rating would have been better all across the board?

You really need to quote me twice in two days to show me there is some kind off fool obsessed with Nick Nurse? War is f'ing happening, get a life, I dont give a f** Nick Nurse ***ed your wife...

Sorry, bad mood, I have bigger issues than NBA coach being bad, if you so passionate,maybe later I will like to read your expose analysis where Nick Nurse failed, beside talent good, result bad stuff. Where is your piece published? But for now, let us both sit in a corner and rethink our lives, maybe?

Don't evade the language filter. If you have to write words that get filtered out... then let the words be filtered out.

It is a paradox to say Jabroni Lames is some kind of fool obsessed with Nurse, "while war is happening"... while at the same time you're swearing at Jabroni... "while war is happening".

We all get frustrated and are not in the bad mood at times... but perhaps in those moments, we also need to appreciate others may also have their own things going and it's not ideal if you are lashing out at someone that you don't know.

Jabroni only pointed to a stat. Keep your spirits up and don't lash out at fellow realgmers, especially when clearly no ill intention exists in the post back to you.

Raptors fans still view Jonas a franchise legend. Be nice to the Raps!

[cupcakesnake]

Pascal, OG and Barbes essentially play same position, their game does excell in different ways, but the fit was clunky. I think there is a reason why basketball is played the way it is, and why positions exist still. Similar case with Phoenix this year I guess, individually, these players were good.

Also, sometimes it can be as easy as, do you have best player to close out the game. These 3 weren't that.

Positive net rating for that trio +3.6 with Nurse & +3.4 with Darko. Try again.

It was Nurse’s inability to optimize anybody other than FVV & Siakam as well as his stubbornness sticking to his defensive schemes that were figured out years earlier, that caused the Raptors to under-perform.

I don't find these points great:
- First off it's +3.9 (in 1173 minutes) vs. +3.3 (in 527 minutes). Just a massive sample size difference and we don't have enough +/- data to do much with the Darko year.

- The Barnes part of that trio was a very different player in his second and third years. Namely his ability to shoot the 3. In his first 2 years, Scottie could only score inside 10 feet, which made him an awful fit with Siakam. In year 3, the shooting transformed and you could play Scottie anywhere on the court. If Scottie had been able to shoot, the 2023 Raptors would have been a different team.

- I have criticisms about the defense, but despite having no rim protector they still finished top 10ish in defense rating in 2022 and 2023. It's a far cry from the defensive dominance they had before Marc Gasol, Lowry, and Ibaka left, but it's not shabby for a defense that has been "figured out". That defense had a really specific goal: force turnovers. Nurse knew this roster had to win a possession battle because their halfcourt offense was light on shot creation, and spacing. Turnovers weren't just stops for the Raptors, they were offense. That scheme (vastly different from the one he used in 2019 and 2020) led the NBA in turnover percentage. It was frustrating to watch at times, when the Raptors were giving up open dunks, but overall I think the coaching strategy there was sound and successful.