Let's talk Jalen Brunson foul baiting

[DonaldSanders]

He's not at Embiid level, but wow as a neutral I noticed a ton of flops from him, as well as being gifted just stopping in front of defenders which in other series wasn't getting called. Tonight he out FT'd Embiid, going to the line 16 vs. Embiid's 13.

How much of a foul baiter do you think Jalen Brunson is? I realize this is colored by most of us rooting against Embiid, but try to remember all of Brunson's sneaky moves. And not that I blame Jalen, he got the calls and wants to win.

This isn't an anti-Brunson poll, I'm curious where people think he stands. Great player!

[chilluminati]

Most smaller guards are going to resort to attempting foul baiting on a % of their drives. His shot wasn't falling early either so he was driving more and sometimes forcing it a little.

[NoStatsGuy]

if you dont foulbait in todays league, you are just dumb sorry. no one cares if you are an honorable baller. at teh end of the day you get judged on stats and accolades and these guys are professionals, they gotta take every inch they can get.

its been part of the game for so long now, at some point you gotta live with it. And JB is not even in the top20 foulbaiters in the league

[stuporman]

#4 in points per game
#2 in drives per game
#14 in FTA per game

I guess the stats suggest he's either bad at baiting, the refs aren't biting or maybe it isn't what you think.

[doogie_hauser]

Every team (including mine) would love to have Brunson on their team.

It's easy to forget that Brunson has been brutally hacked and gotten non calls for much of the season, to the point Thibs (not a guy to normally throw shade at the refs made a point about this publicly a few months ago after a Knicks loss in the West (might have been against The Spurs)

I really hate white knighting/defending the Knicks but Brunson plays the game in a fair and respectable manner, unlike say Bum Adebayo and several of the Miami Heat who have a proven track record of playing dirty/trying to deliberately injury/hurt opposition players.

Bum clearly tried to take Tatum out in game 4.

Feels like a bit of Tall Poppy Syndrome (an Aussie slang term) when it comes to criticising Jalen Brunson and his game

He became a superstar via unconventional means (drafted in the 2nd round, got financially lowballed by the team that drafted him and hence signed on to his hometown team his father played for and is becoming a serious legacy player for that long suffering if not powerful and historical franchise.


Look I have no love for the Knicks at all, esp being a Boston fan, but the Brunson slander on this forum is bordering on the petty and the ridiculous

[knicksNOTslick]

Dude gets hit a lot as well. If he doesn't sell the contact, refs swallow their whistles. He's just very crafty and unpredictable in his movements and for a small guy, he's physical as well. He kinda has to.

There are a lot worse foul baiters in the league and the worse ones are the ones that only go for contact just to go to the line instead of trying to make the shot and earning the and-1. Guys like Trae Young are worse at that. But not Brunson.

[BadaBoom]

The only thing I don't like about this aspect of his game is when he puts somebody on his back and then throw his head back to get an automatic foul. Technically it looks like a correct call, but to me it's just not enjoyable basketball, very comparable to a few years ago when Harden was swinging his arms in the defender to create contact.

It's a tough thing to address because of course, offensive player should be allowed to stop and shoot but here he is really specifically looking for this to happen. I guess it's also a matter of defenders having to be more aware of that.
I think Trae Young was the "first" one to foulbait with this move but he was doing it more flagrantly than Brunson.

[Statlanta]

Replace Antetokoumnpo, Doncic and Davis with Chris Paul, Trae Young and Kyle Lowry on your poll OP.

He is SGA levels of flop and is one of the reasons the Knicks/Sixers series was unwatchable

[Ritzo]

Giannis is a foul baiter? And he's in the 2nd tier too? Are you drunk?

[cgf]

TBF on a lot of the offensive fouls he does get hit and just exaggerates the contact because he hasn't gotten a great whistle...thus all of the And-1s...it's the charges he gets called that are sometimes less than legit

[gavran]

The only thing I don't like about this aspect of his game is when he puts somebody on his back and then throw his head back to get an automatic foul. Technically it looks like a correct call, but to me it's just not enjoyable basketball, very comparable to a few years ago when Harden was swinging his arms in the defender to create contact.

It's a tough thing to address because of course, offensive player should be allowed to stop and shoot but here he is really specifically looking for this to happen. I guess it's also a matter of defenders having to be more aware of that.
I think Trae Young was the "first" one to foulbait with this move but he was doing it more flagrantly than Brunson.

As long as he does not jump back into the defender like Trae did, it is a foul to be called, even if embellished.

[bushybrah_]

About as much as Jimmy. That’s why I don’t complain that much about it.

[RB34]

Giannis shoots a lot of free throws but I’ve never thought of him as a foul baiter. Not once.

I’d probably put Brunson in with SGA, if I had to put him somewhere.

[mccluskey]

if you dont foulbait in todays league, you are just dumb sorry. no one cares if you are an honorable baller. at teh end of the day you get judged on stats and accolades and these guys are professionals, they gotta take every inch they can get.

its been part of the game for so long now, at some point you gotta live with it. And JB is not even in the top20 foulbaiters in the league

agreed, the league has changed the rules constantly to help offensive production and reduce defensive contact, and players are smart enough to recognize and exploit that, so increased foul baiting is what we get as a result. Brunson's just doing what makes sense in today's game, he's not even one of the worst ones out there really.

I'm no fan of all the overexaggerated contact from players these days either, but it is what it is.

[LaLover11]

The only thing I don't like about this aspect of his game is when he puts somebody on his back and then throw his head back to get an automatic foul. Technically it looks like a correct call, but to me it's just not enjoyable basketball, very comparable to a few years ago when Harden was swinging his arms in the defender to create contact.

It's a tough thing to address because of course, offensive player should be allowed to stop and shoot but here he is really specifically looking for this to happen. I guess it's also a matter of defenders having to be more aware of that.
I think Trae Young was the "first" one to foulbait with this move but he was doing it more flagrantly than Brunson.

This is exactly the reason I dislike Brunson lol

[cgf]

#4 in points per game
#2 in drives per game
#14 in FTA per game

I guess the stats suggest he's either bad at baiting, the refs aren't biting or maybe it isn't what you think.

This is the strongest counterargument...but one thing to note, that I can't remember how to find quickly, is that Brunson's proportion of fouls draw that ended as And-1s is higher than a lot of the guys around him. So his FTAs # is a little lower than it should be just because of all of those times Jalen only attempted 1 FT after a foul, instead of 2.

Now even when you account for that by focusing on fouls-drawn instead of FTA, he's still not top 5 (IIRC), just wanted to point that out before someone else brought it up to try and claim that disproves the point your making...because unless those #s changed since the last time I looked, Jalen doesn't draw as many fouls as someone who drives as much as he does should and it's not just his FTAs that are lower than they should be.

[cgf]

if you dont foulbait in todays league, you are just dumb sorry. no one cares if you are an honorable baller. at teh end of the day you get judged on stats and accolades and these guys are professionals, they gotta take every inch they can get.

its been part of the game for so long now, at some point you gotta live with it. And JB is not even in the top20 foulbaiters in the league

agreed, the league has changed the rules constantly to help offensive production and reduce defensive contact, and players are smart enough to recognize and exploit that, so increased foul baiting is what we get as a result. Brunson's just doing what makes sense in today's game, he's not even one of the worst ones out there really.

I'm no fan of all the overexaggerated contact from players these days either, but it is what it is.

To me the big thing is whether a player is just selling calls that should be made or if they are actually manufacturing calls. Brunson totally embellishes contact to sell calls, but he doesn't flop a lot on offense trying to get a call for nothing / just playing for the FTs. Defensively, that's a different story because he does sometimes flop for charges to get calls that he shouldn't.

[Rendei]

Lillard is much worse than Giannis so I'm not even sure how to vote.

[iLLmatic860]

Whether you like it or not its a skill to have and Brunson is elite at it

Lowry was baiting for fouls all series. He just doesnt have as many shot attempts obviously but dude is dirty and be on the bs lol

[Papi_swav]

lol he beat Embiid at his own game, don't hate on it. He figured out they always give Embiid the call so he might as well do it too but he usually does not play like that. The previous games Brunson was getting hacked alot and no foul calls so he figured out he has to sell it more in result it looked like he did too much but oh well it is what it is, he had to will them to win. Embiid does it a million times worse and he's bigger and stronger than everybody on the court, it looks bad and IDK how ppl enjoy watching that ish.