Ant vs Kobe

[Biased_Fan6425]

Calling somebody "one of the top 25 players to ever play" is a pretty positive statement. Of the countless thousands to play ball, he is near the top. Only 20-24 guys are likely better.

lol, name them.

Sure.

Well, to start with I'd say he's got no argument whatever over Lebron, Kareem, Duncan, Jordan, Shaq, Magic, Hakeem, Curry, KG, Jokic, Bird, Giannis, KD, etc. That's 13, so only 7 to go, which is good because there are at least 7 guys left I'd definitely take over him including Dirk, D.Rob, CP3, K.Malone, S.Nash, Luka is on pace, etc. I'd also strongly consider Harden, Wade, Tatum, Butler, and depending on how they finish longevity wise Embiid & Kawhi. Ant is on track to surpass him if he keeps this up for sure.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[One_and_Done]

Kobe didn't play in the advanced stats era. If he was same as as Ant he'd be better period. Kobe would have developed his jumper more in the post-Steph era where everybody has a jumper. Also he'd have been targeting advanced stats instead of ball hogging like he did in his era when everyone was copying Jordan's playing style.

I like Ant but Kobe had more raw talent.

You're saying Kobe would have adjusted his play style to pad his stats in a positive way? Did I really just read that?

Of course. Why do you think everyone started playing more efficient after the moneyball era began?

Google: reflexivity

Kobe knew it would be more efficient to play otherwise during his career, and showed considerable resistance to adapting. He played under the leader in the offensive revolution in Mike D and we all saw how poorly that turned out.

[Wallace_Wallace]

We're really comparing a 22 year old who's won a single playoff series to a top 10-15 player ever? Give me an effing break

There’s really no guarantee about Ant’s postseason success right after this run. Mike Conley, the team stabilizer, will need a new contract. Without Conley, they could barely make a pass in game 1 (good thing KAT and Reid stepped up). McDaniels and Edwards contracts will kick in, KAT and Gobert still making well over 40m per year. Five players (Ant, KAT, Gobert, Reid & McDaniels) will combine to make 175m next season. We’ll see how MJ he’ll get when the Wolves have to get rid of one or two of these guys. As it stands, they have nearly no flexibility to even get a point guard unless Conley takes a major pay cut next year.

He better light it up like Kawhi Leonard did for Toronto a few years back.

Conley re-signed until ‘25-‘26. His extension is 2/21

Nice, so 6 players (Ant, Conley, KAT, Gobert, Reid and McDaniels) will combined make 185m.

[Movics]

There’s really no guarantee about Ant’s postseason success right after this run. Mike Conley, the team stabilizer, will need a new contract. Without Conley, they could barely make a pass in game 1 (good thing KAT and Reid stepped up). McDaniels and Edwards contracts will kick in, KAT and Gobert still making well over 40m per year. Five players (Ant, KAT, Gobert, Reid & McDaniels) will combine to make 175m next season. We’ll see how MJ he’ll get when the Wolves have to get rid of one or two of these guys. As it stands, they have nearly no flexibility to even get a point guard unless Conley takes a major pay cut next year.

He better light it up like Kawhi Leonard did for Toronto a few years back.

Conley re-signed until ‘25-‘26. His extension is 2/21

Nice, so 6 players (Ant, Conley, KAT, Gobert, Reid and McDaniels) will combined make 185m.

The salary cap will be significantly higher (estimated to be over 170m with no cap smoothing) once the new tv deal kicks in. It’s literally one season where the team would be spending over the second apron. That’s pretty doable to keep together the best roster in the history of the franchise.

It’s also 10 players under contract for 186, not 6. Get your facts straight

[Wallace_Wallace]

Conley re-signed until ‘25-‘26. His extension is 2/21

Nice, so 6 players (Ant, Conley, KAT, Gobert, Reid and McDaniels) will combined make 185m.

The salary cap will be significantly higher (estimated to be over 170m with no cap smoothing) once the new tv deal kicks in. It’s literally one season where the team would be spending over the second apron. That’s pretty doable to keep together the best roster in the history of the franchise.

It’s also 10 players under contract for 186, not 6. Get your facts straight

Let’s see,

Conley- 10m
Gobert- 43.8m
KAT-49.2m
Edwards- 35m
McDaniels-22.5m
Reid-14m

Come up to a shade under 174 next season. Gobert and Reid have a player option and NAW has an extension the year after…..best of luck to Ant.

[Shock Defeat]

In this era I see Kobe as a rich man's Demar Derozan or Devin Booker. That's extremely good but not significantly better than current Ant.

[oversteerdawg]

In this era I see Kobe as a rich man's Demar Derozan or Devin Booker. That's extremely good but not significantly better than current Ant.

Except he played monster defense in his prime. Rich man's DDR or Booker who is 1st Team All-Defense would be the best player in the league.

[One_and_Done]

In this era I see Kobe as a rich man's Demar Derozan or Devin Booker. That's extremely good but not significantly better than current Ant.

Except he played monster defense in his prime. Rich man's DDR or Booker who is 1st Team All-Defense would be the best player in the league.

His defence was always overrated, and would be much worse today. Ant is far superior on that end.

[schnakenpopanz]

4 good games get you legendary status? Let me give you a random series. Steve Nash in 2005, averaged 30/6/12 against the Mavs in 6 games on 63.9% TS in a slow paced bad shooting era. That was against one of the legit title contenders in 2005 instead of pretenders in present day Phoenix.

Is he the greatest point guard over Magic and Curry?

No but his an ATG Top 30 player to many people.

[Jta444]

Wait a sec you mean to tell me Lebron an all time GOAT cant even figure out a fat white dude in Jokic only winning 1 game vs him in the past 2 playoffs with 1 sweep

Meanwhile

Ant “the short Jordan/Kobe” a poor mans version at 22 years young has already won 1 last year then 1 this year at the Nuggets home court which Lebron has never been able to do and got more games left and a chance to win the series?

Ant > Lebron all time

I dont wanna hear no Jordan-Lebron comps no more and even Kobe. Ant proving what a fundamentally sound with great midrange and footwork would do in today’s soft league.

[FluLikeSymptoms]

The “Kobe would be a better shooter now” arguments don’t hold any water, nobody practiced more more than Kobe did and if he’d have been a better shooter he would’ve made more. The guy made 12 threes in a game fairly early in his career, he knew what threes were, he was just a streaky shooter and overall just not as great of a shooter as from anywhere as some make him out to be.

It's less shooting ability, and more his shot selection at the time. That might change, given the era-specific emphasis on those shots.

Ex **** actly

Ppl make me laugh when the bring up Kobes "stats" like %'s lol did yall not watch him play? He WAS the team during crunch time or end of Q, end of half's.... this man LIVED for that 1 v 1 back n forth.... AND he GUARDED the best player not shyed away from it like players nowadays where it's about matchups...

lol this young generation

The problem re: Kobe is the younger generation to me, millennials. Your real problem is the older generation, people like myself who are older than Kobe, watched a ton of Jordan, plus Larry and Magic before him, and knew exactly what they were seeing with Kobe, and banging our heads against the wall. Millennials wax lyrical about who Kobe was to them when they were kids. You can’t tell me what Kobe was to basketball, I know what he was. If you started watching basketball in 2000 you didn’t see good basketball until about 10 years ago. I have actual context, I’m not some 35 y/o who thinks he’s an old head and that the league started in 2000.

Nothing was ever going to change Kobe’s shot selection or his success rate. He got crushed back then for it. He wasn’t listening to anyone. All the discipline was in practice. There’s plenty of guys who live in the mid-range now, they’re just better at it, like there were better mid-range shooters before, and if he’d have been better at shooting threes he would’ve taken more and hit more. There was no planet where Kobe would play differently.

[Jta444]

It's less shooting ability, and more his shot selection at the time. That might change, given the era-specific emphasis on those shots.

Ex **** actly

Ppl make me laugh when the bring up Kobes "stats" like %'s lol did yall not watch him play? He WAS the team during crunch time or end of Q, end of half's.... this man LIVED for that 1 v 1 back n forth.... AND he GUARDED the best player not shyed away from it like players nowadays where it's about matchups...

lol this young generation

The problem re: Kobe is the younger generation to me, millennials. Your real problem is the older generation, people like myself who are older than Kobe, watched a ton of Jordan, plus Larry and Magic before him, and knew exactly what they were seeing with Kobe, and banging our heads against the wall. Millennials wax lyrical about who Kobe was to them when they were kids. You can’t tell me what Kobe was to basketball, I know what he was. If you started watching basketball in 2000 you didn’t see good basketball until about 10 years ago. I have actual context, I’m not some 35 y/o who thinks he’s an old head and that the league started in 2000.

Nothing was ever going to change Kobe’s shot selection or his success rate. He got crushed back then for it. He wasn’t listening to anyone. All the discipline was in practice. There’s plenty of guys who live in the mid-range now, they’re just better at it, like there were better mid-range shooters before, and if he’d have been better at shooting threes he would’ve taken more and hit more. There was no planet where Kobe would play differently.

Lol you watched 05-07 Kobe when he didn’t have any quality teammates to pass to and had all those scoring records (which was still fun btw). But Kobe when he had great teammates like 2000-03 and 08-10 was a great passer and resulted in 5 championships.

Magic, Bird, Jordan, Lebron always had stacked teams during their prime that’s why they look like they play better basketball because they can rack up more assists or play in a better system because they had better teams.

[FluLikeSymptoms]

Ex **** actly

Ppl make me laugh when the bring up Kobes "stats" like %'s lol did yall not watch him play? He WAS the team during crunch time or end of Q, end of half's.... this man LIVED for that 1 v 1 back n forth.... AND he GUARDED the best player not shyed away from it like players nowadays where it's about matchups...

lol this young generation

The problem re: Kobe is the younger generation to me, millennials. Your real problem is the older generation, people like myself who are older than Kobe, watched a ton of Jordan, plus Larry and Magic before him, and knew exactly what they were seeing with Kobe, and banging our heads against the wall. Millennials wax lyrical about who Kobe was to them when they were kids. You can’t tell me what Kobe was to basketball, I know what he was. If you started watching basketball in 2000 you didn’t see good basketball until about 10 years ago. I have actual context, I’m not some 35 y/o who thinks he’s an old head and that the league started in 2000.

Nothing was ever going to change Kobe’s shot selection or his success rate. He got crushed back then for it. He wasn’t listening to anyone. All the discipline was in practice. There’s plenty of guys who live in the mid-range now, they’re just better at it, like there were better mid-range shooters before, and if he’d have been better at shooting threes he would’ve taken more and hit more. There was no planet where Kobe would play differently.

Lol you watched 05-07 Kobe when he didn’t have any quality teammates to pass to and had all those scoring records (which was still fun btw). But Kobe when he had great teammates like 2000-03 and 08-10 was a great passer and resulted in 5 championships.

Magic, Bird, Jordan, Lebron always had stacked teams during their prime that’s why they look like they play better basketball because they can rack up more assists or play in a better system because they had better teams.

I watched it all. Infuriating in the Shaq years. He went rogue all the time. Great passer, never. Made other players better on the court, never. Smarter in 08-10? Sure.

[druggas]

The problem re: Kobe is the younger generation to me, millennials. Your real problem is the older generation, people like myself who are older than Kobe, watched a ton of Jordan, plus Larry and Magic before him, and knew exactly what they were seeing with Kobe, and banging our heads against the wall. Millennials wax lyrical about who Kobe was to them when they were kids. You can’t tell me what Kobe was to basketball, I know what he was. If you started watching basketball in 2000 you didn’t see good basketball until about 10 years ago. I have actual context, I’m not some 35 y/o who thinks he’s an old head and that the league started in 2000.

Nothing was ever going to change Kobe’s shot selection or his success rate. He got crushed back then for it. He wasn’t listening to anyone. All the discipline was in practice. There’s plenty of guys who live in the mid-range now, they’re just better at it, like there were better mid-range shooters before, and if he’d have been better at shooting threes he would’ve taken more and hit more. There was no planet where Kobe would play differently.

Lol you watched 05-07 Kobe when he didn’t have any quality teammates to pass to and had all those scoring records (which was still fun btw). But Kobe when he had great teammates like 2000-03 and 08-10 was a great passer and resulted in 5 championships.

Magic, Bird, Jordan, Lebron always had stacked teams during their prime that’s why they look like they play better basketball because they can rack up more assists or play in a better system because they had better teams.

I watched it all. Infuriating in the Shaq years. He went rogue all the time. Great passer, never. Made other players better on the court, never. Smarter in 08-10? Sure.

I probably watched more games than you, and your recap is simply wrong.

[tsherkin]

Lol you watched 05-07 Kobe when he didn’t have any quality teammates to pass to and had all those scoring records (which was still fun btw). But Kobe when he had great teammates like 2000-03 and 08-10 was a great passer and resulted in 5 championships.

Magic, Bird, Jordan, Lebron always had stacked teams during their prime that’s why they look like they play better basketball because they can rack up more assists or play in a better system because they had better teams.

I watched it all. Infuriating in the Shaq years. He went rogue all the time. Great passer, never. Made other players better on the court, never. Smarter in 08-10? Sure.

I probably watched more games than you, and your recap is simply wrong.

He was definitely frustrating at times. It's fine to acknowledge that. There were definitely times with Shaq where he was freelancing too much, not running the offense, etc. There were also times when that was what saved them. Kobe was a mixed bag, but that mixed bag was pretty good on average, no doubt.

[Wallace_Wallace]

4 good games get you legendary status? Let me give you a random series. Steve Nash in 2005, averaged 30/6/12 against the Mavs in 6 games on 63.9% TS in a slow paced bad shooting era. That was against one of the legit title contenders in 2005 instead of pretenders in present day Phoenix.

Is he the greatest point guard over Magic and Curry?

No but his an ATG Top 30 player to many people.

That’s probably is true, even to me. However, he was judged over the course of his career, not the 6 games I was referring to. Same with Ant, he may or may not be great, but putting next to MJ/Kobe or even Wade after one series victory is unnecessary. I mentioned something a couple post above that the Wolves’ window could shut real quick after Rudy Gobert/Reid/NAW’s extensions (one more year after this). Gobert is looking for the max, Reid and NAW are in the 20-25m range. They’ll likely have the let go two of their current players in this roster.

[Wile E. Coyote]

This thread is an abomination.

[FrobeBryant]

Players say alot of stupid stuff. I think they've proven we shouldn't take their views too seriously.

So disregard the stupid stuff players say but listen to the stupid stuff you say and take what you have to say seriously?

[FluLikeSymptoms]

Kobe fans are getting a tiny taste of what it’s been like to deal with Kobe fans all these years. Joker makes it look too easy and is boring like Duncan made it look too easy and was boring, Shaq was a bully who tried to hard to be liked like Giannis is a bully and tries too hard to be liked, so now the fun one and the kids’ favourite, Ant like Kobe before him, must be the actual best player and MJ this and MJ that. Have fun.

[Mamba Mentality]

This thread is really exposing the casuals on the board. Thanks for reminding me why I stay as far away as possible from these kind of stupid comparisons.