Ant vs Kobe vs Jordan athleticism (age 22)

[moderndarwin]

Edwards is a better athlete than Kobe. He however is not close to the athlete that Jordan was. I want to mainly clear that up. He is a better pure athlete than Kobe but Kobe at that age had a better footwork and setup the triple threat to the rim package. And it also was more just a ferocity of style where he forced his way through things. Ant plays with a smoothness that’s different.

But mainly i want to clear up that Jordan is still a significant tier above Edwards as an athlete. Edwards reminds me more of like a Westbrook where he will sometimes have flat out explosion and then thunder. Jordan’s agility, foot speed, quickness pure cat like reflexes is on a whole different tier.

Agree or disagree?

[EmpireFalls]

While MJ is clearly the quickest, you leave out the fact that Ant has a pretty significant weight and subsequent strength advantage over both of them. He has at least 20 pounds on young MJ, who was a skinny beanpole coming out of Carolina.

So it’s a different kind of athleticism. Jordan was quicker but Ant is a lot stronger. He’s got the best power and strength of the three.

I think Jordan was the best athlete relative to era and the athletes he was facing. But on an absolute level I genuinely think Ant is the best athlete of the three given modern recovery techniques, diet, and shoes. 40 years is a very long time. A very long time. No other sport had their athleticism peak in the 80s, every other one has continued to advance decade by decade. While Jordan was a freakish athlete, it would be highly out of the ordinary for the best athlete in 1984 to be better than the best athlete in 2024. I can’t think of any other sport where that’s true so why should it be true for basketball?

And that’s no hate to MJ as much as it is a comment on how far equipment and technology has come since then.

Plus, have you ever tried to hoop in actual Jordan 1s? I’m confident Ant is moving more explosively and using more torque in his jumps and cuts than either of the other two. All of the surrounding stuff allows him to.

[Jaqua92]

Ant being more athletic than MJ is the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

Jesus. I'm rooting for the Wolves cause it's the best shot the Celtics have at winning it all, but goddamn, I think I'd rather see the Wolves lose if it shuts down all of this hyperbolic nonsense.

[EmpireFalls]

So basketball is the only sport on the entire earth where the best athlete in 1984 is more athletic than the best athlete in 2024? Very interesting. I wonder why this is.

[Funcrusher]

Ant being more athletic than MJ is the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

Jesus. I'm rooting for the Wolves cause it's the best shot the Celtics have at winning it all, but goddamn, I think I'd rather see the Wolves lose if it shuts down all of this hyperbolic nonsense.

Yeah, id say its somewhat close, but the answer is obviously MJ. No amount of hand wrining and mental gymnastics is gonna change that. Ant is fighting for 2nd place wit D-Wade

[HotRocks34]

He however is not close to the athlete that Jordan was.

True.

Never been a guy like young MJ.

[dk1115]

Smartass answer would be Ant because Jordan broke his foot at age 22.

But coming from a guy that never got to watch early Jordan, I think it's not contest, Anthony Edwards. 40 years apart, the way athletes train today vs the 80's isn't close.

Curious, how many here have actually watched Jordan during his first 3 years?

[MrBigShot]

MJ had all time great body control. Ant himself has incredible body control, but the things MJ was doing in the air were downright ridiculous.

What MJ gives up in strength to edwards, he more than makes up for in body control, speed, and quickness.

[SlimShady83]

All the wolves threads popping up so much better then the Jokic Denver threads

Let's Go Wolves!

[moderndarwin]

So basketball is the only sport on the entire earth where the best athlete is 1984 is more athletic than the best athlete in 2024? Very interesting. I wonder why this is.

This is not how the human body works though. Humans aren’t more athletic in 2024 than they were in 1984 we didn’t just evolve. Someone from 1850 could have been the most athletic person ever. These people are once in a lifetime type athletes.

What you can say is basketball has more exposure than ever and the talent pool is much larger. So overall the role player on every team is much much much better in 2024 than 1984. But you can’t do that with athleticism that’s just now how it works from a genetic and biological standpoint.

Tier 1
In my lifetime the 3 perfect athletes i’ve ever seen in basketball are:

Pre baseball Michael Jordan
Cleveland Lebron
Orlando Shaq

They were perfect 10 athletes. They had absolutely no flaw and their combination of power, speed, quickness, agility etc is unmatched.

After that there is tier 2 and tier 3. And those are all very debatable as to who fits where. Is Wades quickness better or Ants explosive westbrook type finishing? Is Vince dunking and air agility more important or Blake’s power thru contact.

[D.Brasco]

So basketball is the only sport on the entire earth where the best athlete is 1984 is more athletic than the best athlete in 2024? Very interesting. I wonder why this is.

This is not how the human body works though. Humans aren’t more athletic in 2024 than they were in 1984 we didn’t just evolve. Someone from 1850 could have been the most athletic person ever. These people are once in a lifetime type athletes.

We're talking athletes not average humans no? The impact modern sports science has had over the last 40 years can't be understated at all. When MJ was drafted basketball players were still discouraged from weight training, something most High School program now implement for their athletes.

MJs personal athleticism does transcend eras but the average players he faced in 1984 were nowhere near as athletic as the league average now.

[moderndarwin]

So basketball is the only sport on the entire earth where the best athlete is 1984 is more athletic than the best athlete in 2024? Very interesting. I wonder why this is.

This is not how the human body works though. Humans aren’t more athletic in 2024 than they were in 1984 we didn’t just evolve. Someone from 1850 could have been the most athletic person ever. These people are once in a lifetime type athletes.

We're talking athletes not average humans no? The impact modern sports science has had over the last 40 years can't be understated at all. When MJ was drafted basketball players were still discouraged from weight training, something most High School program now implement for their athletes.

MJs personal athleticism does transcend eras but the average players he faced in 1984 were nowhere near as athletic as the league average now.

Right that’s what i said. I’m sure the average athlete in the nba is much better because the pool of athletes and players is much bigger. But when you consider anomalies in data these sort of averages don’t really matter. The human body hasn’t changed or evolved. The training, diet, fitness represents a tiny percentage of the impact the genetics and innate athleticism is way more important. Like take Dwight Howard who was an exceptional athlete he was eating 12 lbs of candy a day. Even Kobe was eating Mickey Ds all the time. Like food, exercise etc matter but it’s not as big a thing as you’d think. And Michael was in phenomenal shape. Just being heavier or lifting weights doesn’t make you more athletic. Like Ant is naturally genetically athletic it wasn’t any training that did it.

[Hair Jordan]

Ant is close to Jordan athletically like JJ Barea is close to Shaq physically.

[Ein Sof]

Better question IMO is Dinwiddie vs Jordan. They're both 6'6" with a 40.

[michaelm]

While MJ is clearly the quickest, you leave out the fact that Ant has a pretty significant weight and subsequent strength advantage over both of them. He has at least 20 pounds on young MJ, who was a skinny beanpole coming out of Carolina.

So it’s a different kind of athleticism. Jordan was quicker but Ant is a lot stronger. He’s got the best power and strength of the three.

I think Jordan was the best athlete relative to era and the athletes he was facing. But on an absolute level I genuinely think Ant is the best athlete of the three given modern recovery techniques, diet, and shoes. 40 years is a very long time. A very long time. No other sport had their athleticism peak in the 80s, every other one has continued to advance decade by decade. While Jordan was a freakish athlete, it would be highly out of the ordinary for the best athlete in 1984 to be better than the best athlete in 2024. I can’t think of any other sport where that’s true so why should it be true for basketball?

And that’s no hate to MJ as much as it is a comment on how far equipment and technology has come since then.

Plus, have you ever tried to hoop in actual Jordan 1s? I’m confident Ant is moving more explosively and using more torque in his jumps and cuts than either of the other two. All of the surrounding stuff allows him to.

Sure the average level goes up, and the best athlete is more likely to turn up when basketball is a much bigger sport with a wider talent pool to choose from, but some guys at the very top can be statistical anomalies. The best cricket batsman ever probably starting playing in the 1920s, and it has been estimated by statisticians that it would take another 10,000 years for another such outlier to turn up. Babe Ruth from that time was I am told pretty good. Wilt Chamberlain started playing in the 60s and no one like him has really come along since, with Shaq who was also an absolute generic freak probably the nearest thing to him. There might be guys in Africa who never get anywhere near a basketball court, but guys like them have not really been seen regularly despite the expansion of the talent pool.

[SelfishPlayer]

While MJ is clearly the quickest, you leave out the fact that Ant has a pretty significant weight and subsequent strength advantage over both of them. He has at least 20 pounds on young MJ, who was a skinny beanpole coming out of Carolina.

So it’s a different kind of athleticism. Jordan was quicker but Ant is a lot stronger. He’s got the best power and strength of the three.

I think Jordan was the best athlete relative to era and the athletes he was facing. But on an absolute level I genuinely think Ant is the best athlete of the three given modern recovery techniques, diet, and shoes. 40 years is a very long time. A very long time. No other sport had their athleticism peak in the 80s, every other one has continued to advance decade by decade. While Jordan was a freakish athlete, it would be highly out of the ordinary for the best athlete in 1984 to be better than the best athlete in 2024. I can’t think of any other sport where that’s true so why should it be true for basketball?

And that’s no hate to MJ as much as it is a comment on how far equipment and technology has come since then.

Plus, have you ever tried to hoop in actual Jordan 1s? I’m confident Ant is moving more explosively and using more torque in his jumps and cuts than either of the other two. All of the surrounding stuff allows him to.

Deion Sanders and Bo Jackson...

[threethehardway]

If you let internet basketball nerds tell it:

Human beings have evolved since the 1960s and there are superhumans among us.

Athletes don't get more athletic, they get better training methods, rules and etc. to produce better numbers because it's beneficial for the sport.

The idea that Anthony Edwards is a significantly better athlete than Michael Jordan is absurd.

And the reason why is because...Anthony Edwards have better shoes and 20 pounds on MJ at the same age lol.

People are getting ridiculous. Athletes aren't computer chips, they don't linearly get better each year.

MJ is the GOAT basketball athlete and nobody is better than him lol.

[lambchop]

All the wolves threads popping up so much better then the Jokic Denver threads

Let's Go Wolves!

Yep, I'm already preparing the "is Anthony Edwards better than LeBron ever was?" threads, if Minnesota advances.

[LakerLegend]

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

[LakerLegend]

While MJ is clearly the quickest, you leave out the fact that Ant has a pretty significant weight and subsequent strength advantage over both of them. He has at least 20 pounds on young MJ, who was a skinny beanpole coming out of Carolina.

So it’s a different kind of athleticism. Jordan was quicker but Ant is a lot stronger. He’s got the best power and strength of the three.

I think Jordan was the best athlete relative to era and the athletes he was facing. But on an absolute level I genuinely think Ant is the best athlete of the three given modern recovery techniques, diet, and shoes. 40 years is a very long time. A very long time. No other sport had their athleticism peak in the 80s, every other one has continued to advance decade by decade. While Jordan was a freakish athlete, it would be highly out of the ordinary for the best athlete in 1984 to be better than the best athlete in 2024. I can’t think of any other sport where that’s true so why should it be true for basketball?

And that’s no hate to MJ as much as it is a comment on how far equipment and technology has come since then.

Plus, have you ever tried to hoop in actual Jordan 1s? I’m confident Ant is moving more explosively and using more torque in his jumps and cuts than either of the other two. All of the surrounding stuff allows him to.

Sure the average level goes up, and the best athlete is more likely to turn up when basketball is a much bigger sport with a wider talent pool to choose from, but some guys at the very top can be statistical anomalies. The best cricket batsman ever probably starting playing in the 1920s, and it has been estimated by statisticians that it would take another 10,000 years for another such outlier to turn up. Babe Ruth from that time was I am told pretty good. Wilt Chamberlain started playing in the 60s and no one like him has really come along since, with Shaq who was also an absolute generic freak probably the nearest thing to him. There might be guys in Africa who never get anywhere near a basketball court, but guys like them have not really been seen regularly despite the expansion of the talent pool.

It's not just the talent pool, not to the extent your saying.

It's the widespread knowledge of good athletic training and more attention paid to nutrition (like you said).

Most people didn't know what the heck something like plyometrics were back in the day. Now? Elementary school kids know what that is.

Back in the day teams didn't have these huge athletic training staffs, nutritionists etc.

Nor did we have things like youtube to discover knowledge of training methods etc.

But also, the lack of defense and physicality, the lax dribbling rules etc. make it easier for guys to look athletic as well.