Ant vs Kobe vs Jordan athleticism (age 22)

[BarryLird]

MJ had all time great body control. Ant himself has incredible body control, but the things MJ was doing in the air were downright ridiculous.

What MJ gives up in strength to edwards, he more than makes up for in body control, speed, and quickness.

Body control isn't really athleticism, it's more cognitive ability.

The other truth is Jordan is 6"6 and Ant is 6"4

Jordan has gigantic hands that allows him to do things others can't.

Here's another question, if Jordan was 6"4 without the hands but still had the same athleticism how good would he be?

Still quicker, faster, more explosive, higher vert and superior footwork.

This isn't about how good he'd be, it's about athleticism.

Jordan is more athletic. End of.

[Vampirate]

MJ had all time great body control. Ant himself has incredible body control, but the things MJ was doing in the air were downright ridiculous.

What MJ gives up in strength to edwards, he more than makes up for in body control, speed, and quickness.

Body control isn't really athleticism, it's more cognitive ability.

The other truth is Jordan is 6"6 and Ant is 6"4

Jordan has gigantic hands that allows him to do things others can't.

Here's another question, if Jordan was 6"4 without the hands but still had the same athleticism how good would he be?

Still quicker, faster, more explosive, higher vert and superior footwork.

This isn't about how good he'd be, it's about athleticism.

Jordan is more athletic. End of.

Not in terms of player, but if this is just athleticism I wonder how peak Westbrook compares to peak Jordan.

Also, footwork is a skill, not athleticism.

Tbh though I do think people will brush off comparing anything to Jordan or any other great because the comparison seems stupid, because of the rings.

The simple truth is there will eventually be a player that is more athletic than Jordan but when he comes into the NBA, people will brush him off straight away because of Jordan's (overall greatness).


I think it all depends on just how you view athleticism (does strength count?)

How does Wilt, Lebron compare with Jordan?

What do you qualify as athleticism?

[Lalouie]

they're the same

prove me otherwise

[Hornet Mania]

MJ
Ant

Kobe

Kobe got the most out of his athleticism, he had some awesome poster dunks, but he wasn't even the most athletic wing in the league during his athletic peak.

[ballzboyee]

MJ
Ant

Kobe

Kobe got the most out of his athleticism, he had some awesome poster dunks, but he wasn't even the most athletic wing in the league during his athletic peak.

Ant is not a better athlete than Vince Carter or Tracy McGrady either.

[IG2]

Anyone who thinks Anthony Edwards is close or better than Jordan athletically is a casual. Watch Jordan highlights from 1984-1989 when he was in his young, athletic prime. It’s not even close. He’s quicker, faster, jumps higher, hangs longer and could do things with his body that you still don’t see today.

Why does every Jordan comparison have to end with "and it's not even close". That sounds more casual than anything else.

Ant is about 90% the athlete MJ was. I actually think he's the better leaper. Certainly more explosive off the ground. MJ's noticeable edge is obviously his quickness/agility.

[akula1488]

Does it matter? Ant man has better 3 point shots than either Kobe or MJ.

[ballzboyee]

Anyone who thinks Anthony Edwards is close or better than Jordan athletically is a casual. Watch Jordan highlights from 1984-1989 when he was in his young, athletic prime. It’s not even close. He’s quicker, faster, jumps higher, hangs longer and could do things with his body that you still don’t see today.

Why does every Jordan comparison have to end with "and it's not even close". That sounds more casual than anything else.

Ant is about 90% the athlete MJ was. I actually think he's the better leaper. Certainly more explosive off the ground. MJ's noticeable edge is obviously his quickness/agility.

It's the combination of size, speed, agility, and fundamentals along with the fact that Jordan basically invented the ball skills, style of play, and brand of basketball that all modern wings emulated after him, including Kobe and Ant. Jordan's athleticism and physical kinetics became the blueprint for all modern basketball cultural technology. You can't say there is an artist who is superior at Cubism than Picasso. Ant is similar to Jordan in athleticism, but Jordan is the prototype like he was built in a lab. That's why people are saying it is not close because nobody is quite like Jordan. Nobody had ever seen anything really like Jordan, and everybody that came after Jordan played like Jordan. How do you actually qualify that? Jordan basically invented the modern style of basketball and still to this day Jordan did things on a basketball court that we have never seen another person do. That's why people say it is not really close.

[D.Brasco]

MJ
Ant

Kobe

Kobe got the most out of his athleticism, he had some awesome poster dunks, but he wasn't even the most athletic wing in the league during his athletic peak.

Kobe was an overall elite athlete but he never wowed people with his pure athleticism the way his contemporaries VC and T-mac did.

[IG2]

It's the combination of size, speed, agility, and fundamentals

MJ was a couple of inches taller but Ant's a good 30 pounds heavier than pre-1991 MJ, which explains the difference in speed/agility. I don't know what fundamentals have to do with athleticism. The rest of your post is a cringe ode to MJ's playing style and not really relevant to what we're comparing here.

Overall I'd say there's about a 10% difference between them. MJ's got the edge on the ground while Ant strikes me as the more explosive leaper. And he's only 22. We won't see his absolute apex athletically until he hits 24-25.

[Jables]

MJ is at the level where it's pointless to compare his physical attributes because it's hard to tell where his athleticism ends and his skill begins. Like the body control thing, idk man I think he's just really good at getting the ball in the basket. What the hell is the float mid-air and shoot better than everyone else gene and why hasn't anyone else ever had it quite like him?

What I don't agree with is the narrative around Kobe, that Kobe wasn't close to Wade as an athlete and he was just very good, it's part of Kobe's myth that he just worked harder than everyone else when he was just as ahead of most athletes as Jordan was. Yeah Wade's physical attributes helped him more when it came to flashy defense or slashing, tell me with a straight face Kobe wasn't damn close to the perfect all around package. Or what, was Wade **** useless when it came to skills and that's why Kobe averaged 35 and Wade never came close despite being a FT darling? But only near the end of Kobe's career do we pretend people weren't comparing Kobe as an athlete to MJ, and Wade was actually the heir apparent physically.

Very similar to the Hakeem thing, dude is obviously one of the most skilled players ever, full stop, but he had a handful of moves, same as everyone else no matter how fluid and you'd think he had a huge bag of tricks. People imply he was doing stuff other bigs just couldn't, it's part of his myth.

[ballzboyee]

It's the combination of size, speed, agility, and fundamentals

MJ was a couple of inches taller but Ant's a good 30 pounds heavier than pre-1991 MJ, which explains the difference in speed/agility. I don't know what fundamentals have to do with athleticism.

Overall I'd say there's about a 10% difference between them. MJ's got the edge on the ground while Ant strikes me as the more explosive leaper. And he's only 22. We won't see his absolute apex athletically until he hits 24-25.

All I am saying is that during the 1980's the greatest toy in the world was an Optimus Prime transformer. Every little kid had one. LIke Jordan, Optimus Prime first entered the collective consciousness of the world in 1984. The problem became that since every kid had an Optimus Prime, then it became increasingly difficult to move product. In order to continue making money Hasbro came up with the brilliant idea to kill off Optimus Prime and the first generation Autubots and Decepticons and then release a new generation of the Prime. To prepare to the public for this Hasbro produced Transformers the Movie in which the plot called for the slaughter and death of many of America's favorite action figures. It was in this movie that the character Rodimus Prime was born officially. Unfortunately, Optimus Prime was the perfect toy, and Rodimus was a commerical failure. Not to mention the fact that the Transformers movie traumatized many little kids seeing their favorite action heroes murdered unexpectedly. Hasbro teased the film as lighthearted animated cinema, and a lot of kids walked into the movie theater not prepared to see animated version of Apocalypse Now. Long story short, every player in today's league is Rodimus Prime. Jordan is Optimus.

Watch on YouTube

[michaelm]

So basketball is the only sport on the entire earth where the best athlete in 1984 is more athletic than the best athlete in 2024? Very interesting. I wonder why this is.

I don't know about it being the only sport, but yes this is correct. There's no conspiracy or whatever the hell you're getting at.

Sent from my Pixel 6a using RealGM mobile app

Name any other sport, any other example where the best athletes of the 1980s are superior to the ones of the 2020s.

Not 40 years, but the 100 metre dash record set in 2009 by Usain Bolt who was born in 1986 and started his professional career in 2004 is still looking pretty good 15 years on, and everyone everywhere runs, with many places in the world having sophisticated training methods as well.

[Fantastik_Goat]

So basketball is the only sport on the entire earth where the best athlete in 1984 is more athletic than the best athlete in 2024? Very interesting. I wonder why this is.

I don't know about it being the only sport, but yes this is correct. There's no conspiracy or whatever the hell you're getting at.

Sent from my Pixel 6a using RealGM mobile app

Name any other sport, any other example where the best athletes of the 1980s are superior to the ones of the 2020s.

Long Jump

[Hornet Mania]

MJ
Ant

Kobe

Kobe got the most out of his athleticism, he had some awesome poster dunks, but he wasn't even the most athletic wing in the league during his athletic peak.

Ant is not a better athlete than Vince Carter or Tracy McGrady either.

I would agree with VC, not quite sure about T-Mac. It's thin margins either way.

[remiga007]

So basketball is the only sport on the entire earth where the best athlete in 1984 is more athletic than the best athlete in 2024? Very interesting. I wonder why this is.

I counted 31 current world records in athletics, which were set before year 2000. Good chunk (definitely more than 20) set in 1980s. Running, discus, long jump, high jump, road relay, walk, heptathlon, you name it.

P.s. don't tell anyone but scientists say men from several thousand years ago were at least comparable to today's Olympic athletes. And here we are discussing 40 years gap.

[remiga007]

I don't know about it being the only sport, but yes this is correct. There's no conspiracy or whatever the hell you're getting at.

Sent from my Pixel 6a using RealGM mobile app

Name any other sport, any other example where the best athletes of the 1980s are superior to the ones of the 2020s.

Not 40 years, but the 100 metre dash record set in 2009 by Usain Bolt who was born in 1986 and started his professional career in 2004 is still looking pretty good 15 years on, and everyone everywhere runs, with many places in the world having sophisticated training methods as well.

Better yet, all of women's running records under 1000m were set even before 1990.

[rapstarter]

An average athlete today is undoubtedly more athletic than an average athlete in the 80s thanks to advancement in training, rebab, techniques, etc., but we are talking about THE outliers here. If you just looked at the top centers, 90s would look more athletic than the current.

[michaelm]

Name any other sport, any other example where the best athletes of the 1980s are superior to the ones of the 2020s.

Not 40 years, but the 100 metre dash record set in 2009 by Usain Bolt who was born in 1986 and started his professional career in 2004 is still looking pretty good 15 years on, and everyone everywhere runs, with many places in the world having sophisticated training methods as well.

Better yet, all of women's running records under 1000m were set even before 1990.

Absolutely, saw that someone else posted that as well and should have thought of her first.

I tend to dismiss her records somewhat, but nothing was ever proven, and in this context we don’t know exactly how far the superior training methods employed by modern basketball players go either.

I went to Bolt because he was excellent/exceptional going a long way/the whole way back to when he was a junior athlete, and my theory has been that he was exceptionally/freakishly coordinated for his height, highly elite 6’5 100 metre runners being uncommon. I guess Flojo could similarly have been genetically freakish and deserves the benefit of the doubt that she was as well.

[nikster]

So basketball is the only sport on the entire earth where the best athlete is 1984 is more athletic than the best athlete in 2024? Very interesting. I wonder why this is.

This is not how the human body works though. Humans aren’t more athletic in 2024 than they were in 1984 we didn’t just evolve. Someone from 1850 could have been the most athletic person ever. These people are once in a lifetime type athletes.

What you can say is basketball has more exposure than ever and the talent pool is much larger. So overall the role player on every team is much much much better in 2024 than 1984. But you can’t do that with athleticism that’s just now how it works from a genetic and biological standpoint.

Tier 1
In my lifetime the 3 perfect athletes i’ve ever seen in basketball are:

Pre baseball Michael Jordan
Cleveland Lebron
Orlando Shaq

They were perfect 10 athletes. They had absolutely no flaw and their combination of power, speed, quickness, agility etc is unmatched.

After that there is tier 2 and tier 3. And those are all very debatable as to who fits where. Is Wades quickness better or Ants explosive westbrook type finishing? Is Vince dunking and air agility more important or Blake’s power thru contact.

Yeah, it's like they think biological evolution happens over the span of 40-50 years. Always get a laugh from that.

How on earth can you think anybody here has ever argued that it's biological evolution? You're laughing at strawmen