Why is there still a GOAT debate when the NBA itself named the MVP award after Michael Jordan?

PassMeTheBall · Post #1 » by **PassMeTheBall** » Mon May 6, 2024 8:42 pm

The league itself essentially already has said Jordan is the greatest player ever by naming the MVP award after him yet there's still nonsense going on that there's still even a debate. If Lebron or another player was greater they would have either waited to name the award or given it to someone else.

KembaWalker · Post #2 » by **KembaWalker** » Mon May 6, 2024 8:48 pm

There isn’t

That doesn’t mean that people don’t try. We still have people arguing the earth is flat

dygaction · Post #3 » by **dygaction** » Mon May 6, 2024 8:52 pm

PassMeTheBall wrote:The league itself essentially already has said Jordan is the greatest player ever by naming the MVP award after him yet there's still nonsense going on that there's still even a debate. If Lebron or another player was greater they would have either waited to name the award or given it to someone else.

By this logic, I would think the player they used to name Finals MVP is GOATer.

One_and_Done · Post #4 » by **One_and_Done** » Mon May 6, 2024 9:00 pm

They weren't going to name it after a guy still playing. Plus those awards are about legacy, not talent, why do you think Mikan has one. Mikan would be nothing in today's league.

Jables · Post #5 » by **Jables** » Mon May 6, 2024 9:09 pm

There is no actual debate, Kobe was in "the GOAT debate" and everyone in the media acted like that was never a thing the second he retired. It's purely media driven. It will literally never end.

PassMeTheBall · Post #6 » by **PassMeTheBall** » Mon May 6, 2024 9:17 pm

dygaction wrote:
PassMeTheBall wrote:The league itself essentially already has said Jordan is the greatest player ever by naming the MVP award after him yet there's still nonsense going on that there's still even a debate. If Lebron or another player was greater they would have either waited to name the award or given it to someone else.

By this logic, I would think the player they used to name Finals MVP is GOATer.

Finals is just one series, it doesn't mean you're even the greatest player on your own team. Cedric Maxwell got it over Bird in 1981 or Magic over Worthy in 1988. It doesn't mean they're better players than them.

NyKnicks1714 · Post #7 » by **NyKnicks1714** » Mon May 6, 2024 9:22 pm

PassMeTheBall wrote:
dygaction wrote:
PassMeTheBall wrote:The league itself essentially already has said Jordan is the greatest player ever by naming the MVP award after him yet there's still nonsense going on that there's still even a debate. If Lebron or another player was greater they would have either waited to name the award or given it to someone else.

By this logic, I would think the player they used to name Finals MVP is GOATer.

Finals is just one series, it doesn't mean you're even the greatest player on your own team. Cedric Maxwell got it over Bird in 1981 or Magic over Worthy in 1988. It doesn't mean they're better players than them.

So we're all in agreement that Russell, not Jordan, is the guy you want in the Finals and Larry Bird, not Jordan, is the guy you want in the Eastern Conference Finals. Jordan is the guy you want in the regular season.

Sadly we don't know who the best 1st and 2nd round players are. We'll have to wait until the NBA creates awards for those and see who they name them after.

PassMeTheBall · Post #8 » by **PassMeTheBall** » Mon May 6, 2024 9:23 pm

One_and_Done wrote:They weren't going to name it after a guy still playing. Plus those awards are about legacy, not talent, why do you think Mikan has one. Mikan would be nothing in today's league.

They could've easily waited until Lebron retired if they wanted to give it to him. Mikan got the most improved player award named after him. And legacy is a huge part of greatness. Talent itself doesn't move you ahead of others. I can confidently say Luka is more talented than Dirk but he's not greater yet since he has no MVPs or rings.

Special_Puppy · Post #9 » by **Special_Puppy** » Mon May 6, 2024 9:25 pm

They only named the awards after former players so LeBron wasn't eligible

Mr B · Post #10 » by **Mr B** » Mon May 6, 2024 9:28 pm

Everyone knows Kareem is the real GOAT.

One_and_Done · Post #11 » by **One_and_Done** » Mon May 6, 2024 9:30 pm

PassMeTheBall wrote:
One_and_Done wrote:They weren't going to name it after a guy still playing. Plus those awards are about legacy, not talent, why do you think Mikan has one. Mikan would be nothing in today's league.

They could've easily waited until Lebron retired if they wanted to give it to him. Mikan got the most improved player award named after him. And legacy is a huge part of greatness. Talent itself doesn't move you ahead of others. I can confidently say Luka is more talented than Dirk but he's not greater yet since he has no MVPs or rings.

I only care who was more impactful at bball. I don't care about stories.

PassMeTheBall · Post #12 » by **PassMeTheBall** » Mon May 6, 2024 9:31 pm

NyKnicks1714 wrote:
PassMeTheBall wrote:
dygaction wrote:
By this logic, I would think the player they used to name Finals MVP is GOATer.

Finals is just one series, it doesn't mean you're even the greatest player on your own team. Cedric Maxwell got it over Bird in 1981 or Magic over Worthy in 1988. It doesn't mean they're better players than them.

So we're all in agreement that Kareem, not Jordan, is the guy you want in the Finals and Larry Bird, not Jordan, is the guy you want in the Eastern Conference Finals. Jordan is the guy you want in the regular season.

Sadly we don't know who the best 1st and 2nd round players are. We'll have to wait until the NBA creates awards for those and see who they name them after.

I never said FMVP isn't a great award but it's not greater than winning an MVP. MVP is an award over your play over an entire season compared to the rest of the entire league. FMVP is a series award against 1 team. An MVP definitely means more for your resume than a FMVP.

Jordan is still greater than Kareem since he was the clear #1 for all 6 of his championships where it's not even close. He had 2 different 3-peats as the clear best on the team. Kareem was older for his last 2 & it's debatable if him or Magic was the best in 82 & 85. There's a reason they gave the MVP award to Jordan & not Kareem. Kareem imo is the 2nd greatest player ever but Jordan is just greater.

NZB2323 · Post #13 » by **NZB2323** » Mon May 6, 2024 9:31 pm

NyKnicks1714 wrote:
PassMeTheBall wrote:
dygaction wrote:
By this logic, I would think the player they used to name Finals MVP is GOATer.

Finals is just one series, it doesn't mean you're even the greatest player on your own team. Cedric Maxwell got it over Bird in 1981 or Magic over Worthy in 1988. It doesn't mean they're better players than them.

So we're all in agreement that Kareem, not Jordan, is the guy you want in the Finals and Larry Bird, not Jordan, is the guy you want in the Eastern Conference Finals. Jordan is the guy you want in the regular season.

Sadly we don't know who the best 1st and 2nd round players are. We'll have to wait until the NBA creates awards for those and see who they name them after.

The Finals MVP is named after Bill Russell, not Kareem.

NyKnicks1714 · Post #14 » by **NyKnicks1714** » Mon May 6, 2024 9:33 pm

NZB2323 wrote:
NyKnicks1714 wrote:
PassMeTheBall wrote:
Finals is just one series, it doesn't mean you're even the greatest player on your own team. Cedric Maxwell got it over Bird in 1981 or Magic over Worthy in 1988. It doesn't mean they're better players than them.

So we're all in agreement that Kareem, not Jordan, is the guy you want in the Finals and Larry Bird, not Jordan, is the guy you want in the Eastern Conference Finals. Jordan is the guy you want in the regular season.

Sadly we don't know who the best 1st and 2nd round players are. We'll have to wait until the NBA creates awards for those and see who they name them after.

The Finals MVP is named after Bill Russell, not Kareem.

Yeah caught the error.

NyKnicks1714 · Post #15 » by **NyKnicks1714** » Mon May 6, 2024 9:37 pm

PassMeTheBall wrote:
NyKnicks1714 wrote:
PassMeTheBall wrote:
Finals is just one series, it doesn't mean you're even the greatest player on your own team. Cedric Maxwell got it over Bird in 1981 or Magic over Worthy in 1988. It doesn't mean they're better players than them.

So we're all in agreement that Kareem, not Jordan, is the guy you want in the Finals and Larry Bird, not Jordan, is the guy you want in the Eastern Conference Finals. Jordan is the guy you want in the regular season.

Sadly we don't know who the best 1st and 2nd round players are. We'll have to wait until the NBA creates awards for those and see who they name them after.

I never said FMVP isn't a great award but it's not greater than winning an MVP. MVP is an award over your play over an entire season compared to the rest of the entire league. FMVP is a series award against 1 team. An MVP definitely means more for your resume than a FMVP.

Jordan is still greater than Kareem since he was the clear #1 for all 6 of his championships where it's not even close. He had 2 different 3-peats as the clear best on the team. Kareem was older for his last 2 & it's debatable if him or Magic was the best in 82 & 85. There's a reason they gave the MVP award to Jordan & not Kareem. Kareem imo is the 2nd greatest player ever but Jordan is just greater.

Bill Russell is the greatest Finals player ever. Larry Bird is the greatest Eastern Conference Finals player ever. Jordan tops them both in the regular season. Sorry but the NBA proved this by giving them those respective awards.

Got my wires crossed with Kareem. Sadly he doesn't have a basketball award named for him, but he's the greatest NBA social justice champion ever.

PassMeTheBall · Post #16 » by **PassMeTheBall** » Mon May 6, 2024 9:44 pm

NyKnicks1714 wrote:
PassMeTheBall wrote:
NyKnicks1714 wrote:
So we're all in agreement that Kareem, not Jordan, is the guy you want in the Finals and Larry Bird, not Jordan, is the guy you want in the Eastern Conference Finals. Jordan is the guy you want in the regular season.

Sadly we don't know who the best 1st and 2nd round players are. We'll have to wait until the NBA creates awards for those and see who they name them after.

I never said FMVP isn't a great award but it's not greater than winning an MVP. MVP is an award over your play over an entire season compared to the rest of the entire league. FMVP is a series award against 1 team. An MVP definitely means more for your resume than a FMVP.

Jordan is still greater than Kareem since he was the clear #1 for all 6 of his championships where it's not even close. He had 2 different 3-peats as the clear best on the team. Kareem was older for his last 2 & it's debatable if him or Magic was the best in 82 & 85. There's a reason they gave the MVP award to Jordan & not Kareem. Kareem imo is the 2nd greatest player ever but Jordan is just greater.

Kareem is the greatest champion ever. Bill Russell is the greatest Finals player ever. Larry Bird is the greatest Eastern Conference Finals player ever. Jordan tops them all in the regular season.

If you factor in Kareem's college years than he is but not in the NBA. Jordan played a way bigger role for all 6 of his championships than Kareem did for his 6. Kareem was the 3rd & 4th option for his last 2 championships. He also only won 1 ring in the 70s & didn't win his next one until he had Magic as a teammate. What hurts Russell's case as the GOAT is he wasn't elite on offense & he also had a team full of really good players. If he averaged 25ppg or more every year, still the same on defense & still won 11 rings than he would be the greatest.

Myth · Post #17 » by **Myth** » Mon May 6, 2024 9:50 pm

Special_Puppy wrote:They only named the awards after former players so LeBron wasn't eligible

They’ll eventually name Executive of the Year after him.

NyKnicks1714 · Post #18 » by **NyKnicks1714** » Mon May 6, 2024 9:54 pm

PassMeTheBall wrote:
NyKnicks1714 wrote:
PassMeTheBall wrote:
I never said FMVP isn't a great award but it's not greater than winning an MVP. MVP is an award over your play over an entire season compared to the rest of the entire league. FMVP is a series award against 1 team. An MVP definitely means more for your resume than a FMVP.

Jordan is still greater than Kareem since he was the clear #1 for all 6 of his championships where it's not even close. He had 2 different 3-peats as the clear best on the team. Kareem was older for his last 2 & it's debatable if him or Magic was the best in 82 & 85. There's a reason they gave the MVP award to Jordan & not Kareem. Kareem imo is the 2nd greatest player ever but Jordan is just greater.

Kareem is the greatest champion ever. Bill Russell is the greatest Finals player ever. Larry Bird is the greatest Eastern Conference Finals player ever. Jordan tops them all in the regular season.

If you factor in Kareem's college years than he is but not in the NBA. Jordan played a way bigger role for all 6 of his championships than Kareem did for his 6. Kareem was the 3rd & 4th option for his last 2 championships. He also only won 1 ring in the 70s & didn't win his next one until he had Magic as a teammate. What hurts Russell's case as the GOAT is he wasn't elite on offense & he also had a team full of really good players. If he averaged 25ppg or more every year, still the same on defense & still won 11 rings than he would be the greatest.

See my fixed post, ignore what I said about Kareem there. Russell is the best Finals player ever. Bird is the best ECF player ever, Magic is the best WCF player. Jordan has the regular season. If these things weren't true then the NBA wouldn't have named the awards the way they did.

PistolPeteJR · Post #19 » by **PistolPeteJR** » Mon May 6, 2024 9:57 pm

You're right, not sure why this discussion exists given the image of the league itself is the GOAT, Jerry West.

prophet_of_rage · Post #20 » by **prophet_of_rage** » Mon May 6, 2024 9:58 pm

PassMeTheBall wrote:
dygaction wrote:
PassMeTheBall wrote:The league itself essentially already has said Jordan is the greatest player ever by naming the MVP award after him yet there's still nonsense going on that there's still even a debate. If Lebron or another player was greater they would have either waited to name the award or given it to someone else.

By this logic, I would think the player they used to name Finals MVP is GOATer.

Finals is just one series, it doesn't mean you're even the greatest player on your own team. Cedric Maxwell got it over Bird in 1981 or Magic over Worthy in 1988. It doesn't mean they're better players than them.

So then neither does the MVp or the na.ing of said trophy.

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