Why is there still a GOAT debate when the NBA itself named the MVP award after Michael Jordan?

[prophet_of_rage]

Everyone knows Kareem is the real GOAT.

Plus 1000000

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[PassMeTheBall]

Kareem is the greatest champion ever. Bill Russell is the greatest Finals player ever. Larry Bird is the greatest Eastern Conference Finals player ever. Jordan tops them all in the regular season.

If you factor in Kareem's college years than he is but not in the NBA. Jordan played a way bigger role for all 6 of his championships than Kareem did for his 6. Kareem was the 3rd & 4th option for his last 2 championships. He also only won 1 ring in the 70s & didn't win his next one until he had Magic as a teammate. What hurts Russell's case as the GOAT is he wasn't elite on offense & he also had a team full of really good players. If he averaged 25ppg or more every year, still the same on defense & still won 11 rings than he would be the greatest.

See my fixed post, ignore what I said about Kareem there. Russell is the best Finals player ever. Bird is the best ECF player ever, Magic is the best WCF player. Jordan has the regular season. If these things weren't true then the NBA wouldn't have named the awards the way they did.

Yes, but MVP is more important legacy wise than the other awards. The other ones are just for a single playoff series, the other is a player's individual play over an entire season against the entire league. It's pretty telling they gave it to Jordan over Kareem even though Kareem has more MVPs since they know Jordan is the greatest ever. Even on MJ's official NBA profile they say Jordan is the greatest ever by acclamation.

[NyKnicks1714]

If you factor in Kareem's college years than he is but not in the NBA. Jordan played a way bigger role for all 6 of his championships than Kareem did for his 6. Kareem was the 3rd & 4th option for his last 2 championships. He also only won 1 ring in the 70s & didn't win his next one until he had Magic as a teammate. What hurts Russell's case as the GOAT is he wasn't elite on offense & he also had a team full of really good players. If he averaged 25ppg or more every year, still the same on defense & still won 11 rings than he would be the greatest.

See my fixed post, ignore what I said about Kareem there. Russell is the best Finals player ever. Bird is the best ECF player ever, Magic is the best WCF player. Jordan has the regular season. If these things weren't true then the NBA wouldn't have named the awards the way they did.

Yes, but MVP is more important legacy wise than the other awards. The other ones are just for a single playoff series, the other is a player's individual play over an entire season against the entire league. It's pretty telling they gave it to Jordan over Kareem even though Kareem has more MVPs since they know Jordan is the greatest ever. Even on MJ's official NBA profile they say Jordan is the greatest ever by acclamation.

Hey man, I don't make the rules. If you're in the Eastern Conference Finals you take Bird over Jordan every time.

[dk1115]

I'm actually wondering how many people had that GOAT debate when Jordan was the LeBron, and there was another consensus GOAT at the time.

[Doctor MJ]

The league itself essentially already has said Jordan is the greatest player ever by naming the MVP award after him yet there's still nonsense going on that there's still even a debate. If Lebron or another player was greater they would have either waited to name the award or given it to someone else.

"Why do basketball fans still debate the greatest basketball player when the lawyers who run the NBA decided to rebrand an award after the guy who sold the most shoes?"

I dunno man. It's a mystery.

[Myth]

I'm actually wondering how many people had that GOAT debate when Jordan was the LeBron, and there was another consensus GOAT at the time.

Jordan was being frequently called the GOAT by his active peers before he ever won a ring. But it wasn’t hotly debated or made a big deal like now. I think ESPN and the internet really shifted things to more debate than appreciation. That said, the 2 I remember named most outside of Jordan were Wilt and Kareem, with some people being all about Bird or Magic. I think Wilt fell out of the conversation for 2 reasons: Too much time has passed placing few witnesses to his career left in the conversation and the go to defense for Jordan becoming his rings despite him not needing them to initially be in the conversation.

[PassMeTheBall]

See my fixed post, ignore what I said about Kareem there. Russell is the best Finals player ever. Bird is the best ECF player ever, Magic is the best WCF player. Jordan has the regular season. If these things weren't true then the NBA wouldn't have named the awards the way they did.

Yes, but MVP is more important legacy wise than the other awards. The other ones are just for a single playoff series, the other is a player's individual play over an entire season against the entire league. It's pretty telling they gave it to Jordan over Kareem even though Kareem has more MVPs since they know Jordan is the greatest ever. Even on MJ's official NBA profile they say Jordan is the greatest ever by acclamation.

Hey man, I don't make the rules. If you're in the Eastern Conference Finals you take Bird over Jordan every time.

They couldn't name more than 1 thing after Jordan so they had to give someone else that award. Jordan got the award that views him as the greatest.

[Doctor MJ]

Yes, but MVP is more important legacy wise than the other awards. The other ones are just for a single playoff series, the other is a player's individual play over an entire season against the entire league. It's pretty telling they gave it to Jordan over Kareem even though Kareem has more MVPs since they know Jordan is the greatest ever. Even on MJ's official NBA profile they say Jordan is the greatest ever by acclamation.

Hey man, I don't make the rules. If you're in the Eastern Conference Finals you take Bird over Jordan every time.

They couldn't name more than 1 thing after Jordan so they had to give someone else that award. Jordan got the award that views him as the greatest.

They named the Bill Russell Finals MVP after Jordan? Man, that's confusing.

[The4thHorseman]

There isn’t

That doesn’t mean that people don’t try. We still have people arguing the earth is flat

Says the guy who defends MJ and **** on LeBron in every thread that even remotely compares the two.

[PassMeTheBall]

Hey man, I don't make the rules. If you're in the Eastern Conference Finals you take Bird over Jordan every time.

They couldn't name more than 1 thing after Jordan so they had to give someone else that award. Jordan got the award that views him as the greatest.

They named the Bill Russell Finals MVP after Jordan? Man, that's confusing.

Again, Finals MVP is just 1 series, MVP is over an entire season competing against the entire league for that award. Not sure why that's confusing. Was Cedric Maxell greater than Bird in 1981? Was Worthy a better player than Magic for the 1988 Lakers? Was Iguodala better than Curry in 2015? Bird, Magic & Curry were the Batman of the team those years. Kareem has 1 more MVP than Jordan yet they still gave it to Jordan since they know he's the greatest ever when you factor in everything.

[tsherkin]

The league itself essentially already has said Jordan is the greatest player ever by naming the MVP award after him yet there's still nonsense going on that there's still even a debate. If Lebron or another player was greater they would have either waited to name the award or given it to someone else.

This... is in no way a legitimate argument. This is a dreadful take.

[Jaqua92]

There isn't a GOAT debate.

There's just Lebron's media team and reactionary fans calling the sky green.

People can have LeBron is their goat. But there isn't really a debate because Michael's status as the GOAT isn't in question.

LeBron is the second greatest player ever.

Let's move on. MJ is the goat until someone speaks higher and wins 8fmvps.

That's not Lebron.

[NyKnicks1714]

There isn’t

That doesn’t mean that people don’t try. We still have people arguing the earth is flat

Says the guy who defends MJ and **** on LeBron in every thread that even remotely compares the two.

"There's no debate!"

*Frequently participates in said debate*

[Jaqua92]

I'm actually wondering how many people had that GOAT debate when Jordan was the LeBron, and there was another consensus GOAT at the time.

There wasn't a debate.

[ChipotleWest]

They weren't going to name it after a guy still playing. Plus those awards are about legacy, not talent, why do you think Mikan has one. Mikan would be nothing in today's league.

Why would they name it after Lebron when he has less MVPs than Jordan? And less championships too. Makes about as much sense as calling him the GOAT.

[NZB2323]

I'm actually wondering how many people had that GOAT debate when Jordan was the LeBron, and there was another consensus GOAT at the time.

Kareem wasn’t very popular back then and a lot of people had Bird or Magic as the GOAT.

[tsherkin]

Hey man, I don't make the rules. If you're in the Eastern Conference Finals you take Bird over Jordan every time.

Why?

It certainly isn't based on individual performance... and it isn't based on wins, either. Jordan was 6/8 in ECFs and Bird was 5/8.

Jordan lost a 6-game series against the 89 Pistons and a 7-game against the 90 Pistons, both of whom obviously went on to win the title. In the first, he posted 29.7 ppg on +2.2% rTS, with 5.5 rpg and 6.5 apg. In the second, he gave them 32.1 ppg on +2.4% rTS with 7.1 rpg and 6.3 apg. He just didn't have any support. The Bulls weren't any kind of good around him until 1991, when he started winning rings.

So what's this "rule" which makes one take Bird?

[NyKnicks1714]

Hey man, I don't make the rules. If you're in the Eastern Conference Finals you take Bird over Jordan every time.

Why?

It certainly isn't based on individual performance... and it isn't based on wins, either. Jordan was 6/8 in ECFs and Bird was 5/8.

Jordan lost a 6-game series against the 89 Pistons and a 7-game against the 90 Pistons, both of whom obviously went on to win the title. In the first, he posted 29.7 ppg on +2.2% rTS, with 5.5 rpg and 6.5 apg. In the second, he gave them 32.1 ppg on +2.4% rTS with 7.1 rpg and 6.3 apg. He just didn't have any support. The Bulls weren't any kind of good around him until 1991, when he started winning rings.

So what's this "rule" which makes one take Bird?

Might wanna look through my other posts in this thread

[PassMeTheBall]

Hey man, I don't make the rules. If you're in the Eastern Conference Finals you take Bird over Jordan every time.

Why?

It certainly isn't based on individual performance... and it isn't based on wins, either. Jordan was 6/8 in ECFs and Bird was 5/8.

Jordan lost a 6-game series against the 89 Pistons and a 7-game against the 90 Pistons, both of whom obviously went on to win the title. In the first, he posted 29.7 ppg on +2.2% rTS, with 5.5 rpg and 6.5 apg. In the second, he gave them 32.1 ppg on +2.4% rTS with 7.1 rpg and 6.3 apg. He just didn't have any support. The Bulls weren't any kind of good around him until 1991, when he started winning rings.

So what's this "rule" which makes one take Bird?

They were just saying that since they officially named the Eastern Conference Finals award after Bird. Jordan would have that one too if they could name more than 1 award after him.

[Doctor MJ]

They couldn't name more than 1 thing after Jordan so they had to give someone else that award. Jordan got the award that views him as the greatest.

They named the Bill Russell Finals MVP after Jordan? Man, that's confusing.

Again, Finals MVP is just 1 series, MVP is over an entire season competing against the entire league for that award. Not sure why that's confusing. Was Cedric Maxell greater than Bird in 1981? Was Worthy a better player than Magic for the 1988 Lakers? Was Iguodala better than Curry in 2015? Bird, Magic & Curry were the Batman of the team those years. Kareem has 1 more MVP than Jordan yet they still gave it to Jordan since they know he's the greatest ever when you factor in everything.

The greatest regular season player ever is what Jordan is known for? Really?