Arvydas Sabonis vs Jokic

[LaLover11]

Who's the better player in thier Prime?

[UcanUwill]

Jokic has proven at the very highest level, so the answer is clearly him. He is evolution of Sabonis. Altho Sabonis had amazing awareness, hands and vision, Jokic's playmaking is on another level. Maybe we could have ran insane offense through Arvydas, but I highly doubt it is as good as Jokic. Jokics court awareness, precision and dicision making is easily in GOAT conversations.

I have mentioned this before, Sabonis absolutely dominated Euroleague at age 40. And that shown his great skill, but I think it might also shown how good of a fit he was to play lesser competition. 40 year old Sabonis was not NBA player anymore. So, was he ever trully NBA superstar material, or was he just the guy born to dominate 80s and 90s Euro ball?

[HMFFL]

I would take Jokic and I don't believe it's close.
Jokic's just not fools gold because he's having a bad series or he's not like last year's Jokic.

Sent from my SM-N975U using RealGM Forums mobile app

[FreeBird23]

How many people have seen Sabonis's peak ? Because it was not in the NBA.

Sabonis was an athletic freak for his size and a better defender for sure.

I would take Jokic on offense, he is a better shooter and passer (but Sabonis was a good one too).

[UcanUwill]

How many people have seen Sabonis's peak ? Because it was not in the NBA.

Sabonis was an athletic freak for his size and a better defender for sure.

I would take Jokic on offense, he is a better shooter and passer (but Sabonis was a good one too).

I have seen it cause I am from Lithuania and an Euro ball fan first and foremost. Arvydas was definitely much better than Divac, and he outpaced Tkachenko pretty quick. That said, he was injuries guy, what was even his prime? Obviously his young Zalgiris days is the answer, but he never really was a freak freak. He was good rim protector and he was posterizing guys, but Arvydas was 7'3 and long, dude barely needed to jump to put guys in a poster. And altho he famously killed Admiral just in one half of a game, but over the long season and different type of match ups, guy like Robinson had different things to offer, he was way faster and bouncier than Sabonis. Sabonis definitely played in an era he was suited for, would he be better today is up for a debate. I think on one hand, coaches would lean more to idea of running offense entirely through him, but on the other hand, other offenses would make it harder for him on defense.

[Warriorfan]

Sabonis played an Era of the big men. Jokic is in his prime when younger ones are coming on

[AIfan3]

NBA Sabonis was well past his prime and injuries had taken its toll. Still good, but nowhere as good as Jokic.

Now, peak USSR Sabonis is a whole different animal.

[SpreeS]

Watch on YouTube

I could call it elite passing for center in 80ies.

[Sealab2024]

So you want me to pick either Bill Walton in his prime with a better outside shot or a dude who moves like Sabonis after the knee injuries? Give me Arvydas.

[Johnny Firpo]

No one ever saw Sabas' prime, since he tore his achilles like at 21.

[Special_Puppy]

Are we sure that Jokić is better than James Wiseman

[BelgradeNugget]

How many people have seen Sabonis's peak ? Because it was not in the NBA.

Sabonis was an athletic freak for his size and a better defender for sure.

I would take Jokic on offense, he is a better shooter and passer (but Sabonis was a good one too).

I have seen it cause I am from Lithuania and an Euro ball fan first and foremost. Arvydas was definitely much better than Divac, and he outpaced Tkachenko pretty quick. That said, he was injuries guy, what was even his prime? Obviously his young Zalgiris days is the answer, but he never really was a freak freak. He was good rim protector and he was posterizing guys, but Arvydas was 7'3 and long, dude barely needed to jump to put guys in a poster. And altho he famously killed Admiral just in one half of a game, but over the long season and different type of match ups, guy like Robinson had different things to offer, he was way faster and bouncier than Sabonis. Sabonis definitely played in an era he was suited for, would he be better today is up for a debate. I think on one hand, coaches would lean more to idea of running offense entirely through him, but on the other hand, other offenses would make it harder for him on defense.

This is problem with all the people here talking about Sabonis's peak. There are 2 peaks for him. His athletics peak was as he was young and not so good as overal player. It ended when he was 22-23 years old with Achilles' tendon and other injuries.

Then there was his basketball peak when he was imobbile but dominated with skill and BBIQ. And that is pretty much Portland Sabonis.

Unfortunatelly those 2 peaks never overlaped.

[FluLikeSymptoms]

Young Sabonis was like a Walton and Shaq mashup, I don’t know what you do with that.

[UcanUwill]

How many people have seen Sabonis's peak ? Because it was not in the NBA.

Sabonis was an athletic freak for his size and a better defender for sure.

I would take Jokic on offense, he is a better shooter and passer (but Sabonis was a good one too).

I have seen it cause I am from Lithuania and an Euro ball fan first and foremost. Arvydas was definitely much better than Divac, and he outpaced Tkachenko pretty quick. That said, he was injuries guy, what was even his prime? Obviously his young Zalgiris days is the answer, but he never really was a freak freak. He was good rim protector and he was posterizing guys, but Arvydas was 7'3 and long, dude barely needed to jump to put guys in a poster. And altho he famously killed Admiral just in one half of a game, but over the long season and different type of match ups, guy like Robinson had different things to offer, he was way faster and bouncier than Sabonis. Sabonis definitely played in an era he was suited for, would he be better today is up for a debate. I think on one hand, coaches would lean more to idea of running offense entirely through him, but on the other hand, other offenses would make it harder for him on defense.

This is problem with all the people here talking about Sabonis's peak. There are 2 peaks for him. His athletics peak was as he was young and not so good as overal player. It ended when he was 22-23 years old with Achilles' tendon and other injuries.

Then there was his basketball peak when he was imobbile but dominated with skill and BBIQ. And that is pretty much Portland Sabonis.

Unfortunatelly those 2 peaks never overlaped.

It is true, tho Sabonis was a wonderkind and was polished already even before first major injury. He probably was biggest soviet basketball star before turning 20, thats when he probably was the best. If not injuries, he could have been one of the true greats, he was European great, but when we compare him to 3 time NBA MVPs, if you pick Sabonis in that debate you are just being a pretentious hipster.

But Sabonis was very good right from the jump, I have seen people say similar thing to yours, but more in a way that make it sound that athletic Sabonis didnt yet had skill, and its a lie. He was passing, shooting, skyhooking menace even at age 19, but yeah, his prime was vague and short lived. He looked like the guy who will not last long, but because of hus size and skill, he ended up playing 20 years more even after achilles and severe knee injuries, but I do question how he would have looked in the NBA. He always would have been good, but some act like he was guarantee to win MVPs and stuff. That is quite silly and example where the legend outgrew the man himself.

Because of different times and different political climate, there were trully good basketball players who never played in the NBA back then, but when bringing these things, even 15 year olds bring Arvydas and mainly only him. Loving Arvydas Sabonis became a cool hipster thing to do IMO.

[UcanUwill]

Young Sabonis was like a Walton and Shaq mashup, I don’t know what you do with that.

Even peak athlete Sabas was not a Shaq mashup, come on guys. He was strong, so maybe taller leaner Steven Adams like, but Shaq like he was not. Shaq is one of the greatest athletic freaks this sport has ever seen, and if you pick him #1 in that category, I wouldn't veto on that.

[FluLikeSymptoms]

Young Sabonis was like a Walton and Shaq mashup, I don’t know what you do with that.

Even peak athlete Sabas was not a Shaq mashup, come on guys. He was strong, so maybe taller leaner Steven Adams like, but Shaq like he was not. Shaq is one of the greatest athletic freaks this sport has ever seen, and if you pick him #1 in that category, I wouldn't veto on that.

Mashup is not full Shaq. Yes Shaq is perhaps the most impressive athlete I’ve seen along with LBJ because I wasn’t around for Wilt. Sabonis looks super explosive compared to his height/mass, is all, and a whole lot different than older Sabonis.

[BelgradeNugget]

I have seen it cause I am from Lithuania and an Euro ball fan first and foremost. Arvydas was definitely much better than Divac, and he outpaced Tkachenko pretty quick. That said, he was injuries guy, what was even his prime? Obviously his young Zalgiris days is the answer, but he never really was a freak freak. He was good rim protector and he was posterizing guys, but Arvydas was 7'3 and long, dude barely needed to jump to put guys in a poster. And altho he famously killed Admiral just in one half of a game, but over the long season and different type of match ups, guy like Robinson had different things to offer, he was way faster and bouncier than Sabonis. Sabonis definitely played in an era he was suited for, would he be better today is up for a debate. I think on one hand, coaches would lean more to idea of running offense entirely through him, but on the other hand, other offenses would make it harder for him on defense.

This is problem with all the people here talking about Sabonis's peak. There are 2 peaks for him. His athletics peak was as he was young and not so good as overal player. It ended when he was 22-23 years old with Achilles' tendon and other injuries.

Then there was his basketball peak when he was imobbile but dominated with skill and BBIQ. And that is pretty much Portland Sabonis.

Unfortunatelly those 2 peaks never overlaped.

It is true, tho Sabonis was a wonderkind and was polished already even before first major injury. He probably was biggest soviet basketball star before turning 20, thats when he probably was the best. If not injuries, he could have been one of the true greats, he was European great, but when we compare him to 3 time NBA MVPs, if you pick Sabonis in that debate you are just being a pretentious hipster.

But Sabonis was very good right from the jump, I have seen people say similar thing to yours, but more in a way that make it sound that athletic Sabonis didnt yet had skill, and its a lie. He was passing, shooting, skyhooking menace even at age 19, but yeah, his prime was vague and short lived. He looked like the guy who will not last long, but because of hus size and skill, he ended up playing 20 years more even after achilles and severe knee injuries, but I do question how he would have looked in the NBA. He always would have been good, but some act like he was guarantee to win MVPs and stuff. That is quite silly and example where the legend outgrew the man himself.

Because of different times and different political climate, there were trully good basketball players who never played in the NBA back then, but when bringing these things, even 15 year olds bring Arvydas and mainly only him. Loving Arvydas Sabonis became a cool hipster thing to do IMO.

I didn't say he didn't have skills. I said skill and BBIQ. Jordan had skills and athleticism, same as LeBron from young age, but it took some time for them to learn how to use it to win. That is why players usualy peak at the age of 26-27 and for some it could last even as their athletic ability start to decline.

Sabonis had the same skills in Valadolid, but IMO his peak sterted in Real Madrid when he learned how to dominate game with what he had. Jokic could shoot and pass from his 2nd season in the NBA but it took time to reach the level of MVP.

[UcanUwill]

This is problem with all the people here talking about Sabonis's peak. There are 2 peaks for him. His athletics peak was as he was young and not so good as overal player. It ended when he was 22-23 years old with Achilles' tendon and other injuries.

Then there was his basketball peak when he was imobbile but dominated with skill and BBIQ. And that is pretty much Portland Sabonis.

Unfortunatelly those 2 peaks never overlaped.

It is true, tho Sabonis was a wonderkind and was polished already even before first major injury. He probably was biggest soviet basketball star before turning 20, thats when he probably was the best. If not injuries, he could have been one of the true greats, he was European great, but when we compare him to 3 time NBA MVPs, if you pick Sabonis in that debate you are just being a pretentious hipster.

But Sabonis was very good right from the jump, I have seen people say similar thing to yours, but more in a way that make it sound that athletic Sabonis didnt yet had skill, and its a lie. He was passing, shooting, skyhooking menace even at age 19, but yeah, his prime was vague and short lived. He looked like the guy who will not last long, but because of hus size and skill, he ended up playing 20 years more even after achilles and severe knee injuries, but I do question how he would have looked in the NBA. He always would have been good, but some act like he was guarantee to win MVPs and stuff. That is quite silly and example where the legend outgrew the man himself.

Because of different times and different political climate, there were trully good basketball players who never played in the NBA back then, but when bringing these things, even 15 year olds bring Arvydas and mainly only him. Loving Arvydas Sabonis became a cool hipster thing to do IMO.

I didn't say he didn't have skills. I said skill and BBIQ. Jordan had skills and athleticism, same as LeBron from young age, but it took some time for them to learn how to use it to win. That is why players usualy peak at the age of 26-27 and for some it could last even as their athletic ability start to decline.

Sabonis had the same skills in Valadolid, but IMO his peak sterted in Real Madrid when he learned how to dominate game with what he had. Jokic could shoot and pass from his 2nd season in the NBA but it took time to reach the level of MVP.

No, I agree with you, I didn't meant to say that you claim he had no skill, but I have meant that there were people in the past who said he was very raw early on, using your basic narattive, but using it badly, implying like he learned the game only after injuries and that Portland Sabas was his prime. While that is debatable, I think 20 year old Sabonis trully was his best form, and it is a shame he was not durable, because yes, he probably would have ultimately peaked as 27-29 year old veteran, like most players. Altho he rebounded his career well and maintained high level, all passed 1987 was kind off on damage control. Good player, greater legend and what if story. Not only that he debuted in the NBA while already in his 30s, but also because he never had a chance to reach his prime.

[KrAzY3]

Arvydas Sabonis is basically a mythical figure at this point. Due to injuries it's hard to tell how could he really could have been, so he's in that Len Bias category somewhat in terms of he's as good as you want to think he could be.

But the reality it what he did on the court was nowhere near the level of the greatest big men of all time, so it's all hypothetical.

[Duke4life831]

Arvydas Sabonis is basically a mythical figure at this point. Due to injuries it's hard to tell how could he really could have been, so he's in that Len Bias category somewhat in terms of he's as good as you want to think he could be.

But the reality it what he did on the court was nowhere near the level of the greatest big men of all time, so it's all hypothetical.

Haha yup. Over the years on here of having this discussion. I think I may have watched every video available online to watch of Sabonis by now. Because I kept hearing of this mythical beast.

7’3, but more athletic than prime David Robinson, stronger than prime Shaq, better defender than Hakeem. Then on offense he was a better passer and more skilled than Jokic, to go with the physical dominance of Shaq.

Yet I’ve yet to see a single video of this mythical beast. Don’t get me wrong, the videos of younger Sabonis are impressive, but I’ve yet to see this mythical beast who is arguably the greatest at every aspect of being a 5.