The SGA experience

[ropjhk]

I don't like these types of foul calls. They should be taken out of the game. Too soft.

[zimpy27]

Incredibly long post that even contains spoilers. Get a hobby dude.

This is literally a hobby, and a fine hobby.

If you want short-form writing then go to twitter or the formulaic comment section of a reddit thread.

Long thoughtful posts are encouraged here, this is what the forum was built on.

[Texas Chuck]

Incredibly long post that even contains spoilers. Get a hobby dude.

This is literally a hobby, and a fine hobby.

If you want short-form writing then go to twitter or the formulaic comment section of a reddit thread.

Long thoughtful posts are encouraged here, this is what the forum was built on.

Yeah I disagree with the topics Dirk chooses from time to time and definitely don't like a complain about refs thread. But a Dirk thread is always high quality. And if you don't have the ability to read more than about 15 words that's cool, plenty of spots on the internet or even just on this board for that kind of post. I ignore most of the hot take threads because they aren't for me. That's the cool thing, we get to make choices.

[slick_watts]

drawing fouls is a skill in the nba and has been for decades. shai is talented at drawing fouls, as are a lot of players of his caliber over the years. shai is hyper-aggressive, knows how to get defenders off balance and lives in the paint. he rarely settles for pull-up threes. so he's going to get calls. his free throw rate is in-line with other players like him.

[sikma42]

Imo he gets a favorable whistle because they allow him to throw his body into people to “draw” fouls but don’t call when he throws his body into people and they “draw” charges. It’s easy to draw fouls when that same force can never draw a charge.


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[Wargreymon]

I mean the Luka experience is eerily similar…i think Luka went to the line 10 times and SGA got there 13 times. Not a huge discrepancy between them

[TacoLord]

Daddy, the big bad refs won't call as many fouls on our foul baiters!!!

[Patches Perry]

drawing fouls is a skill in the nba and has been for decades. shai is talented at drawing fouls, as are a lot of players of his caliber over the years. shai is hyper-aggressive, knows how to get defenders off balance and lives in the paint. he rarely settles for pull-up threes. so he's going to get calls. his free throw rate is in-line with other players like him.

In addition to this, and the thing that is rarely talked about, is that players like Shai are not elite athletes relative to their superstar status. They don't have the elite burst or rise of a Michael Jordan, Dwyane Wade, Anthony Edwards, Russell Westbrook, Derrick Rose, etc. Those kind of guys will go by you and you'll never recover as a defender. Shai is not like this. He isn't going to elite first step into a poster dunk. He is a guy who will use crafty footwork to gain an advantage and put the defender out of position, then use his body and positioning to keep them out of position.

If you put an elite athletic defender on Shai, he can gain an advantage, but without a mechanism to keep the advantage, defenders will recover. A lot of people use the cliche "putting them in jail" and I think that speaks to how guys like Shai, Luka, Harden of the past and now Jalen Brunson as well operate. They use their footwork and talent to gain an advantage over a defender, and then "put them in jail" to keep them out of position. The reason this results in so many fouls is defenders will try to force their way back into legal guarding position and will foul in the process.

It's possible for defenders to not get out of position so frequently. Herb Jones and Trey Murphy did a fantastic job of this in the first series. I imagine Jaden McDaniels would as well, but it takes a talented and disciplined defender to guard a talented and disciplined offensive talent like Shai.

[KembaWalker]

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[shi-woo]

This playoffs, what i've noticed is that the refs have literally no clue how to call the herky-jerky guard. It's not just Shai, Brunson and Mitchel get the same whistle.

All these dudes play a little differently, but the end result is the same, a whistle and some shots. I don't think the refs are trying to favor them so much, they just don't know how to call these guys nearly as well as slower players who don't combine move after move, constantly look for contact even 40 feet from the basket, and constantly put themselves in compromising positions. All while being the fastest and most athletic dudes on the court.

It gets annoying, especially when you watch Brunson and Mitchel who constantly initiate the contact and use moves for the sole intent of drafting a gimme foul. SHai from what i've seen does the same thing, but closer to the basket, while attempting the shot

Refs just need to stop calling the bumps and falling for the exaggeration. The game is faster these days, you cant call every slight touch on a drive especially when you're letting a ton of contact go from the offensive player who used their arms to keep defenders away and push off with the forarm every shot.

NBA refs just can't call these guys correctly right now, it's the opposite of the non calls for big men in this era.

If Brunson is the one initiating contact and using moves solely for the purpose of drawing the foul, why does he get so many And-1s and why are his defenders constantly running into him after he blows past them? If the refs called things by the book, Brunson would be drawing deadball fouls on every other possession

That's what i'm saying, Brunson is different from the other two in that he gets his guy on his hip and foul hunt that way. That move is no different than a pump fake and jumping into the defender in my opinion. Or are we really at the point where we think dudes just coming to a complete stop to have a defender run into them a good basketball play? It's not, it's hunting for fouls. His sole purpose is to initiate contact first, then shoot second, so idk what point you were trying to make there

Brunson's made a living off of that move in the playoffs.

[cgf]

This playoffs, what i've noticed is that the refs have literally no clue how to call the herky-jerky guard. It's not just Shai, Brunson and Mitchel get the same whistle.

All these dudes play a little differently, but the end result is the same, a whistle and some shots. I don't think the refs are trying to favor them so much, they just don't know how to call these guys nearly as well as slower players who don't combine move after move, constantly look for contact even 40 feet from the basket, and constantly put themselves in compromising positions. All while being the fastest and most athletic dudes on the court.

It gets annoying, especially when you watch Brunson and Mitchel who constantly initiate the contact and use moves for the sole intent of drafting a gimme foul. SHai from what i've seen does the same thing, but closer to the basket, while attempting the shot

Refs just need to stop calling the bumps and falling for the exaggeration. The game is faster these days, you cant call every slight touch on a drive especially when you're letting a ton of contact go from the offensive player who used their arms to keep defenders away and push off with the forarm every shot.

NBA refs just can't call these guys correctly right now, it's the opposite of the non calls for big men in this era.

If Brunson is the one initiating contact and using moves solely for the purpose of drawing the foul, why does he get so many And-1s and why are his defenders constantly running into him after he blows past them? If the refs called things by the book, Brunson would be drawing deadball fouls on every other possession

That's what i'm saying, Brunson is different from the other two in that he gets his guy on his hip and foul hunt that way. That move is no different than a pump fake and jumping into the defender in my opinion. Or are we really at the point where we think dudes just coming to a complete stop to have a defender run into them a good basketball play? It's not, it's hunting for fouls. His sole purpose is to initiate contact first, then shoot second, so idk what point you were trying to make there

Brunson's made a living off of that move in the playoffs.

That's certainly one way to describe guys fouling Brunson when he raises up to shoot after beating them off the dribble.

Granted, I totally forgot that hitting jumpshots inside the arc isn't a good basketball play anymore and something guys only do when they're hunting for fouls...

[Statlanta]

Gilgeous-Alexander gets the skinny boy privilege in that you bump him and send him off he will get free throws much like Durant(without Durant's rip through BS). Not Harden/Embiid levels but noteworthy enough that a neutral fan can see.

I wish Gilgeous-Alexander and Brunson got the Jamal Murray/Kyrie Irving level of whistle.

[cupcakesnake]

Incredibly long post that even contains spoilers. Get a hobby dude.

Comes to a site used as a hobby and tells people to get a hobby.

[cupcakesnake]

Gilgeous-Alexander gets the skinny boy privilege in that you bump him and send him off he will get free throws much like Durant(without Durant's rip through BS). Not Harden/Embiid levels but noteworthy enough that a neutral fan can see.

I wish Gilgeous-Alexander and Brunson got the Jamal Murray/Kyrie Irving level of whistle.

I think though the players you're using as an example highlight something. Shai and Brunson and relentless drivers who try to get into the paint on almost every possession. Jamal Murray is a pull up artist who's drives are usually set up by the threat of his pull up. Kyrie is a perimeter shooter with handles that occasionally attacks a matchup.

Shai: 24.6 drives per 36 minutes, 63%ts (17.4 in the playoffs, 54%ts)
Brunson: 19.8 drives per 36, 56.4%ts (21.8 in the playoffs, 53%ts)
Murray: 13.7 drives per 36, 50%ts (17 in the playoffs, 45.8%ts).
Kyrie 12.1 drives per 36, 59.2%ts (9.6 in the playoffs, 54%TS)

You have to drive and be a threat to score to draw a whistle. Jamal is not on the map in terms of scoring efficiency, and Kyrie just doesn't drive enough to even have a chance at a whistle.

[DwayneSchintzus]

this is so on-brand for the Mavs.

a week ago luka went 15-26 and had 35 points. now his knee hurts, or its the refs, or some other excuse.

no one feels sorry for you, like no one feels sorry for any other team. either win or don't win, but don't cry about it.

[ThunderBolt]

Duplicate

[Mamba Mentality]

Ant has shot 44 free throws to SGAs 46 this postseason. One guy is being compared to Jordan while the other is constantly criticized for being a foul merchant. Amazing…

[Chuck Everett]

Ant has shot 44 free throws to SGAs 46 this postseason. One guy is being compared to Jordan while the other is constantly criticized for being a foul merchant. Amazing…

Ant has played 6 games, while Shai has played 5.

[Joao Saraiva]

Have no problem with the calls. Shai attacks the rim and yeah he seeks contact sometimes. It doesn't mean it's not a foul.

He gets buckets with or without FTs, and OKC is running wild.

These playoffs have been a joy to watch. Ton of great teams.

[taikibansei]

this reminds me of the only fans crying about brunson

And it's hilarious--especially given how the complaining fans invariably have at least one player on their team's squad (e.g., Luka, Embiid, etc.) who does far, far worse than what they're posting to complain about.