The SGA experience

[Dirk]

Amazing shot maker, some incredible shots made. And ironically killed the Mavs with back to back 3 pointers.

But obviously, "the experience", relates to what many many NBA fans experienced yesterday in the first half.

I was reading up the playoffs series thread and it jumped out how so many users were shocked by the calls this guy gets. Then I quickly looked up elsewhere (twitter, reddit) and the same sort of feedback:

SGA is certainly talented and one of the best players in the game. That being said, his game is borderline unwatchable. Literally everytime he attempts a drive or a shot, he is trying to draw a foul. The calls he's been getting here are so stupid. He's like a skinny James Harden, only worse.

Would've been 150 FTs in our game if that kind of contact was a foul. League needs to get it's **** together and call things consistently.

-Wolves fan

The first half of the Thunder/Mavs game 1 was an absolutely absolutely atrocious experience as a fan (not only for the ones of the opposing team, but NBA fans in general).

Literally seeing people disgusted with the ruined game experience.

Spoiler:

An interesting pattern was how he initiated contact (and got calls) and also pushed off a couple of times (never called). It's wildly confusing... the best of both worlds. You can push guys off and you can fabricate fouls yourself.

We all watched the Wolves/Nuggets and how the Wolves are super physical and obviously get away with contact (good! If it's for the both teams). Then we tune in and we see this guy get fouls over any contact (that he actually initiates).

How long do you think that being in the spotlight will nudge him towards that Embiid/Harden type rep?

And if you see OKC/Wolves in the WCF, do you think the Wolves will be able to avoid the phantom calls and what will Edwards be saying about SGA getting fouls for other guys simply existing and having bodies?

Wolves fans are already worried.



Is this type of "foul baiting" really sustainable even in the playoffs? Or it will fade out as attention is paid to this? It certainly did look like this player randomly was getting regular season (and made up fouls) out of the blue, particularly in the first half --- he had 10 free throws in the first half.

This topic is mostly to vent that we spend the time watching the game and then get frustrated with the game being randomly interrupted by the refs... and obviously if this were to continue to happen... then we may as well check out because it's a waste of time to watch this kind of basketball.

These are among many other posts, guess it highlights it wasn't just me being a fan on the other end of the ridiculous calls that happened all first half.

Spoiler:

Elite foul merchant. Prime Hardeneseque.

Refs are making this nearly unwatchable.

Dallas has to complain about these SGA calls


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

Yeah SGA is disgusting to watch lol 6'6 Joel Embiid

These SGA foul calls are wild. I thought we were in the playoffs now

I hate how the officiating makes a neutral fan feel like I have to pull for one team.

Free throw fest in the first half. Terrible basketball.

SGA with more FTAs than FGAs at the moment.

Uhhh OKC is getting some serious home cooking from the refs right now...

Before the inevitable "Mavs fans crying". Do note that all those users and more are not Mavs fans at all. Also, on a personal level, the series/season is/was already lost the second I heard Jason Kidd was extended. Even if the Mavs beat OKC, it'd still be a miserable end to the season (yes, not much chance of winning it all, given Luka is hurt/playing poorly).

Topic is mostly based on the general NBA fan experience from G1 of the game yesterday and mostly looking forward to the possible WCF where SGA will meet the 85 Bears --- the Wolves can press you full court, but SGA can just lean in to the defender and draw the fouls. Will be an interesting dynamic to watch.

[BDM22]

The irony in this thread knowing that Shai and Luka each averaged exactly 8.7 Free Throw Attempts per game this season. How about "the Luka experience"?!

There is a conversation to be had about foul baiting, but to make it about one guy and ignore the guy on your own team that does the same stuff comes off as a little bit salty.

[MoneyTalks41890]

SGA leads the league in drives at 23.3 per game. Luka drives 30 percent less at 17.8 drives per game.

SGA attempts 8.7 FTs per game.
Luka attempts 8.7 FTs per game.

SGA has never in any season had more FT attempts than Luka.

[cgf]

SGA definitely gets a good whistle...but he earns most of his calls and I feel like most of the time he's trying to get the bucket, not just playing for the foul. So SGA doesn't bother me anywhere near as much as someone like Embiid.

[zimpy27]

SGA forces contact on drives. It's extremely hard to stop this guy because he's quick, isn't afraid of contact and is elite at finishing.

He's not really foul baiting either, he's forcing defenders in to illegal position by being quick and forceful to the rim.

If he does push off then refs should call it

[Rubio9Guy]

SGA definitely gets a good whistle...but he earns most of his calls and I feel like most of the time he's trying to get the bucket, not just playing for the foul. So SGA doesn't bother me anywhere near as much as someone like Embiid.

SGA plays exactly like Embiid in that way

[DaGawd]

this reminds me of the philly fans crying about brunson

[shi-woo]

This playoffs, what i've noticed is that the refs have literally no clue how to call the herky-jerky guard. It's not just Shai, Brunson and Mitchel get the same whistle.

All these dudes play a little differently, but the end result is the same, a whistle and some shots. I don't think the refs are trying to favor them so much, they just don't know how to call these guys nearly as well as slower players who don't combine move after move, constantly look for contact even 40 feet from the basket, and constantly put themselves in compromising positions. All while being the fastest and most athletic dudes on the court.

It gets annoying, especially when you watch Brunson and Mitchel who constantly initiate the contact and use moves for the sole intent of drafting a gimme foul. SHai from what i've seen does the same thing, but closer to the basket, while attempting the shot

Refs just need to stop calling the bumps and falling for the exaggeration. The game is faster these days, you cant call every slight touch on a drive especially when you're letting a ton of contact go from the offensive player who used their arms to keep defenders away and push off with the forarm every shot.

NBA refs just can't call these guys correctly right now, it's the opposite of the non calls for big men in this era.

[kingr]

Could be true, but he's going up against luka who constantly pushes off or dips his shoulder into the defender to create space. So meh

[Bergmaniac]

Only 3 clips this time? You are slacking off, man, your previous whining threads had a lot more visual aids.

[mr570]

Incredibly long post that even contains spoilers. Get a hobby dude.

[cgf]

SGA definitely gets a good whistle...but he earns most of his calls and I feel like most of the time he's trying to get the bucket, not just playing for the foul. So SGA doesn't bother me anywhere near as much as someone like Embiid.

SGA plays exactly like Embiid in that way

I dunno. May totally be an exposure thing, but a lot more of Embiid's fouls feel like him just tossing the ball into the air to get the call. With Shai it feels a lot more like he's trying to score when he gets his calls. But I admit that may just be a question of sample size...as I do watch a lot more eastern conference ball.

[dhsilv2]

It's certainly weird seeing the wolves nuggets than watching this series. It very much feels like different sets of rules. That said I'm not sure I see a bias or anything, just two series being reffed very differently which as a fan doesn't seem right. That said...it's always been like this.

[cgf]

This playoffs, what i've noticed is that the refs have literally no clue how to call the herky-jerky guard. It's not just Shai, Brunson and Mitchel get the same whistle.

All these dudes play a little differently, but the end result is the same, a whistle and some shots. I don't think the refs are trying to favor them so much, they just don't know how to call these guys nearly as well as slower players who don't combine move after move, constantly look for contact even 40 feet from the basket, and constantly put themselves in compromising positions. All while being the fastest and most athletic dudes on the court.

It gets annoying, especially when you watch Brunson and Mitchel who constantly initiate the contact and use moves for the sole intent of drafting a gimme foul. SHai from what i've seen does the same thing, but closer to the basket, while attempting the shot

Refs just need to stop calling the bumps and falling for the exaggeration. The game is faster these days, you cant call every slight touch on a drive especially when you're letting a ton of contact go from the offensive player who used their arms to keep defenders away and push off with the forarm every shot.

NBA refs just can't call these guys correctly right now, it's the opposite of the non calls for big men in this era.

If Brunson is the one initiating contact and using moves solely for the purpose of drawing the foul, why does he get so many And-1s and why are his defenders constantly running into him after he blows past them? If the refs called things by the book, Brunson would be drawing deadball fouls on every other possession

[Chuck Everett]

Guy is a foul grifter. Has been all season. Makes him really hard to stop. It's why Herb Jones' performance against him is so underrated and why Herb may be a top 5 defender in the world. Obviously, you're gonna foul him but you have to stay disciplined and not bite on the head fakes/snapbacks. More importantly, you have to go at him on the defensive end.

The problem with all the grifting is that it makes defenders tentative, which then gives him space to make shots. Jalen Williams, Dort and Chet draw more legit fouls than he does.

Mitchell and Brunson been getting the same nonsense calls in these playoffs as well.

[EmpireFalls]

I want to say I enjoy watching him, Luka, Brunson, Mitchell, and Embiid play due to their talent and high level shotmaking. But the truth is it’s tough, despite being in awe of their attacking mindset and skill level — there’s so much foul grifting it’s really hard to watch.

We talk about players’ influence on the NBA: I keep coming back to how James Harden is the avatar for all of those guys. As time goes on, the James Harden Houston offensive template only grows and grows in stature imo. That is his real legacy. Breeding an entire generation of foul grifting guards who run spread PnR and 5 out.

[Metin91]

In regards to how Edwards will react this was him postgame after the last matchup where he attempted 4 fts whereas SGA attempted 16 which was more than the entire wolves team.

Read on Twitter

?t=Qrc-YuC7JkJxl5mKezx52w&s=19

[Chuck Everett]

In regards to how Edwards will react this was him postgame after the last matchup where he attempted 4 fts whereas SGA attempted 16 which was more than the entire wolves team.

Read on Twitter

?t=Qrc-YuC7JkJxl5mKezx52w&s=19

In the same game he had a breakaway dunk that sealed it where SGA got all "arm" and no call. Clear as day, missed by three blind mice.

[Quattro]

NBA refs are bad. No need to keep debating it

[The Servant]

SGA leads the league in drives at 23.3 per game. Luka drives 30 percent less at 17.8 drives per game.

SGA attempts 8.7 FTs per game.
Luka attempts 8.7 FTs per game.

SGA has never in any season had more FT attempts than Luka.

So 23 drives to the hole and he gets fouled 4-5 times so maybe once every 4 or 5 drives. I guess if he was fouled one single time less a game he'd average like 6.7 FT attempts and everyone would be happy.