Serious question - can you lower your shoulder and uproot a set defender?

Laimbeer · Post #1 » by **Laimbeer** » Mon May 13, 2024 5:28 pm

Seeing Joker do this last night, it made me wonder - can you lower your shoulder and uproot a set defender? I thought that was no longer legal. To be clear, he isn't the only one who is or has done it these playoffs.

Rainwater · Post #2 » by **Rainwater** » Mon May 13, 2024 5:36 pm

I always thought that driving into the defender using your shoulder to create space should be an offensive foul but it is never called.

kodo · Post #3 » by **kodo** » Mon May 13, 2024 5:54 pm

Section II—By Dribbler

A dribbler shall not (1) charge into an opponent who has established a legal guarding position, or (2) attempt to dribble between two opponents, or (3) attempt to dribble between an opponent and a boundary, where sufficient space is not available for illegal contact to be avoided.

If a defender is able to establish a legal position in the straight line path of the dribbler, the dribbler must avoid contact by changing direction or ending his dribble.

Statlanta · Post #4 » by **Statlanta** » Mon May 13, 2024 5:55 pm

Shaq vs. Mutombo was when I learned the offensive player can do murder as long as it leads to highlights.

ChipotleWest · Post #5 » by **ChipotleWest** » Mon May 13, 2024 5:56 pm

Joker uses his shoulder and SGA uses elbows. They both get rewarded for such acts.

CIN-C-STAR · Post #6 » by **CIN-C-STAR** » Mon May 13, 2024 6:00 pm

In the NBA you can.

You can also clear out a defender with your off arm when going up for a dunk.

You can also elbow people in the face while dribbling. This was upheld as a defensive foul after review:
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HotelVitale · Post #7 » by **HotelVitale** » Mon May 13, 2024 6:01 pm

No but you're probably talking about the gray area of backing people down. The rule is that it's okay to knock a defender back a little as you dribble side to side and back down, but you can't wind up and bullrush a defender who's standing stationary. In practice those things bleed into one another and it's often the ref guessing about how set the defender was and how much 'plowing' vs grinding down is in a particular move.

dhsilv2 · Post #8 » by **dhsilv2** » Mon May 13, 2024 6:05 pm

The league has been allowing this forever. The league in general swallows whistled to post players, both the offensive and defensive player. I'm not sure the league has ever been more "basketball physical" in the post than the last decade. It's honestly why we don't see a bit more post play. That generally protects the defense...but Jokic is Jokic.

JRoy · Post #9 » by **JRoy** » Mon May 13, 2024 6:08 pm

Shaq made a career out of it

Post #10 » by **bisme37** » Mon May 13, 2024 6:13 pm

Kinda seems like it depends on whether the defender falls over or not.

BmanInBigD · Post #11 » by **BmanInBigD** » Mon May 13, 2024 6:15 pm

JRoy wrote:Shaq made a career out of it

Yeah, if they called this as it was supposed to be called, Shaq never would have made it past the first quarter.

JRoy · Post #12 » by **JRoy** » Mon May 13, 2024 6:15 pm

BmanInBigD wrote:
JRoy wrote:Shaq made a career out of it

Yeah, if they called this as it was supposed to be called, Shaq never would have made it past the first quarter.

True.

Or any of his defenders either.

KembaWalker · Post #13 » by **KembaWalker** » Mon May 13, 2024 6:17 pm

bisme37 wrote:Kinda seems like it depends on whether the defender falls over or not.

Depends on the name(s) on your jersey

p0peye · Post #14 » by **p0peye** » Mon May 13, 2024 6:18 pm

JRoy wrote:Shaq made a career out of it

This.

Niko23 · Post #15 » by **Niko23** » Mon May 13, 2024 7:13 pm

It is probably called less today because of all the flopping that happens. Plus its playoffs.

Fencer reregistered · Post #16 » by **Fencer reregistered** » Mon May 13, 2024 7:14 pm

Statlanta wrote:Shaq vs. Mutombo was when I learned the offensive player can do murder as long as it leads to highlights.

I used to think Shaq wouldn't be nearly as dominant today because that's not allowed any more.

Perhaps I was wrong.

shi-woo · Post #17 » by **shi-woo** » Mon May 13, 2024 7:21 pm

kodo wrote:
Section II—By Dribbler

A dribbler shall not (1) charge into an opponent who has established a legal guarding position, or (2) attempt to dribble between two opponents, or (3) attempt to dribble between an opponent and a boundary, where sufficient space is not available for illegal contact to be avoided.

If a defender is able to establish a legal position in the straight line path of the dribbler, the dribbler must avoid contact by changing direction or ending his dribble.

Jesus, reading that and you know the rule was for the Bob Cousey era of dribbling, or the college game in the 80's.

If palming, dbl dribbles, carrying, and travels were actually a real rule in the NBA, this might be legit.

"Legal guarding position" in todays game is laughable

ChipotleWest · Post #18 » by **ChipotleWest** » Mon May 13, 2024 7:26 pm

It's all bs anyway if I'm SGA I know it's the playoffs there's no way they're going to foul me out of the game with offensive fouls. So why not initiate the contact on the defender using my elbow giving me an advantage if the defender does nothing I either get a 3 point play or go to the line. It's a win win. It makes me glad he didn't get MVP though and I hope he never does he's a free throw merchant.

theforumblue · Post #19 » by **theforumblue** » Mon May 13, 2024 7:35 pm

correct answer is "it depends".

Biff · Post #20 » by **Biff** » Mon May 13, 2024 9:12 pm

Superstars get away with everything.