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How good are the Celts without Ray
Posted: Sun Jan 6, 2008 12:24 am
by narsox10
Of the big three it is generally seen that Garnett and Pierce are better in this stage of their careers. But how good are the Celts if they didn't have him. He was basically a no show, actually hurting the team against Memphis, and the Celts still won convincingly. And the games he missed the Celts cruised along just fine. Personally I feel during the regular season he will not be appreciated as much as when playoffs come. I think that when the Celts are blowing teams away his game is overlooked, but in close games his shooting is going to come up huge, like in the Toronto game at the end.
Posted: Sun Jan 6, 2008 1:23 am
by LiquidFire
hes won them 3 games with 1 shot, so.... i dunno
Posted: Sun Jan 6, 2008 1:27 am
by Anticon
This is what makes the team so scary. You have two guys demanding double teams, and then Ray.
When Ray Allen is your third option, you're going to win big. They'd still be good without him, but they wouldn't be at this elite level.
Posted: Sun Jan 6, 2008 1:27 am
by jeremy1215
I think he is the second most important of the three, you all know the first.
Posted: Sun Jan 6, 2008 1:31 am
by bballcool34
Not nearly as good.
Simply having Ray on the floor stretches out the opponent's defense because whether he's having a good night or not, you have to respect his jumper. Plus, he makes it so that the Celts almost always have one of the Big Three in the game. With the weakness of the Celts at the point guard position, Ray can handle the ball fairly well for a shooting guard. And his style of play perfectly complements Garnett and Pierce.
And besides those intangibles, he's one of the best shooters in the league, and amazingly clutch.
So, yeah I'd say Allen is not just important- he's essential to the Celtic's success
Posted: Sun Jan 6, 2008 1:32 am
by elephunk
jeremy1215 wrote:I think he is the second most important of the three, you all know the first.
Disagree. Life went on as usual for the Celts when Ray was hurt. The same can't be said if it were any of the other two in his place.
The pecking order definitely goes like this...
1. KG
2. Pierce
3. Ray
Posted: Sun Jan 6, 2008 1:46 am
by ChocolateThundr
If you adjusts stats by taking Ray Allen out, you may not see that much of a difference. (I dont mean just subtract Ray Allen's numbers from Celtics' stats)
By I think he has a considerable prescence. Its a psycological thing because even if he is not shooting or whatever, the other team has to keep a watch for him because he's a serious 3 point threat and also a good slasher.
Posted: Sun Jan 6, 2008 2:29 am
by Pats19andO
jeremy1215 wrote:I think he is the second most important of the three, you all know the first.
haha funny thats like saying ben gordon is the bulls most important player
BG is the assasin of the bulls chance to get to the finals
Posted: Sun Jan 6, 2008 3:42 am
by hermes
bballcool34 wrote:Not nearly as good.
Simply having Ray on the floor stretches out the opponent's defense because whether he's having a good night or not, you have to respect his jumper. Plus, he makes it so that the Celts almost always have one of the Big Three in the game. With the weakness of the Celts at the point guard position, Ray can handle the ball fairly well for a shooting guard. And his style of play perfectly complements Garnett and Pierce.
And besides those intangibles, he's one of the best shooters in the league, and amazingly clutch.
So, yeah I'd say Allen is not just important- he's essential to the Celtic's success
Posted: Sun Jan 6, 2008 3:44 am
by meatball sub
I think we'd have 6 or 7 losses without him.
Posted: Sun Jan 6, 2008 3:50 am
by wetsthebed
The Celtics don't seem to be much worse when he doesn't play, but they do lose a lot of clutch 4th quarter shots without him. All three are important, he's just less important than KG and Pierce. I'd hate to be without Ray in the playoffs.
Posted: Sun Jan 6, 2008 3:50 am
by MagicFan3
Pats19andO wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
haha funny thats like saying ben gordon is the bulls most important player
BG is the assasin of the bulls chance to get to the finals
That made absolutely no sense. Ben Gordon pretty much
is Chicago's most important player...
Posted: Sun Jan 6, 2008 4:21 am
by corona
subtract Ray totally...
or substitute him with Wally, Green & West?
Posted: Sun Jan 6, 2008 8:00 am
by P2
We played 2 games so far this season without Ray, and we beat Milwaukee by 22 and Toronto by 13.
Posted: Sun Jan 6, 2008 8:59 am
by LAKESHOW
when we had magic, kareem and worthy. uhhh, no bad example.
he is a solid player and hits the big shots for the team when needed. he is valuable without a doubt. no success without him.
Posted: Sun Jan 6, 2008 9:05 am
by yunggunz
Even when his shots arent going in, Ray changes the dimension of a game with his reputation as the best shooter in the league. Teams cant play zone with him on the floor and he stretches the D, making it essentially impossible to double KG or Pierce.
Even in the mentioned Memphis game where he really hurt the Celtics, he had a +5 compared to -4 for Pierce.
Posted: Sun Jan 6, 2008 4:39 pm
by humblebum
Let me just say, for the record, that Ray Allen is a very, very underrated defensive player. He's had good defensive nights against the likes of Kobe Bryant and Chauncey Billups. I think he's real solid on that end and like others have said the dude stretches the D regardless of if he's hitting or not. His impact is harder to see when the shot's not falling but he's definitely putting in work one way or the other.
Posted: Sun Jan 6, 2008 5:05 pm
by BobbySura
well, ray allen has been playing terribly for ray allen so take that into account when you realize they are still wining games. Imagine if this guy can get his fg% up a few more percentage.
Not to mention all the clutch shots he takes, and the fact that defenses can't lay off the guy even if he's having a 1-9 night. He's the kind of player who can not hit a shot for 3 1/2 quarters then drop three three pointers in a few minutes. Just having a guy like that on the floor makes it tons easier for EVERYONE else on the team because there isn't a big chance for anyone to get double teamed.
Posted: Sun Jan 6, 2008 5:31 pm
by risktaker91
I was thinking this exact thing yesterday, but I guess Ray Allen is important for the Celtics Success. He takes away the double team on Pierce or KG, and he is so damn clutch. The Raptors almost had that win if it wasn't for Ray Allen's OT outburst.
Posted: Sun Jan 6, 2008 8:36 pm
by narsox10
I also think that its important to not underestimate his ability to open up the court. Pierce and Rondo are able to drive more to the hoop because they cant cheat off Ray to defend.