neglecting the big man..why is it happening?

HarlemHeat37 · Post #1 » by **HarlemHeat37** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 3:04 am

I've noticed this trend, and it shouldn't be happening so much..

for my Spurs, Duncan doesn't take as many shots as he should, partly due to unselfishness, but also partly due to some of the occasional ballhogging from others..even as great as he is, the best PF of all-time, he still gets ignored occasionally in the regular season..

that isn't the main example though..

I've noticed complaining on many of the boards here on RealGm..the biggest example being Dwight Howard as of late..last season he went through it as well..I also noticed it today on the ABC game..why would the most powerful/explosive big man in the NBA get ignored so often by lesser players? it can't all be from the other team fronting him well..

on the Suns board, I've seen many complaints about Stoudemire not touching the ball as much as he should, despite being an all-NBA 1st teamer last year..

on the Bucks board, there is constant complaining about Bogut not getting enough touches..and even about Bogut not being the #1 option instead of the ballhogging Michael Redd..

I've heard many Bobcats fans complain about Okafor not getting nearly enough touches..

so what's up with the trend of good/great big men being ignored TOO MUCH at times by their teams? it isn't all from "good D" as I've seen on many occasions..change of style? ballhogging players? what is the main reason behind this?..

jzmagik · Post #2 » by **jzmagik** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 3:06 am

HarlemHeat37 wrote:I've noticed this trend, and it shouldn't be happening so much..

for my Spurs, Duncan doesn't take as many shots as he should, partly due to unselfishness, but also partly due to some of the occasional ballhogging from others..even as great as he is, the best PF of all-time, he still gets ignored occasionally in the regular season..

that isn't the main example though..

I've noticed complaining on many of the boards here on RealGm..the biggest example being Dwight Howard as of late..last season he went through it as well..I also noticed it today on the ABC game..why would the most powerful/explosive big man in the NBA get ignored so often by lesser players? it can't all be from the other team fronting him well..

on the Suns board, I've seen many complaints about Stoudemire not touching the ball as much as he should, despite being an all-NBA 1st teamer last year..

on the Bucks board, there is constant complaining about Bogut not getting enough touches..and even about Bogut not being the #1 option instead of the ballhogging Michael Redd..

I've heard many Bobcats fans complain about Okafor not getting nearly enough touches..

so what's up with the trend of good/great big men being ignored TOO MUCH at times by their teams? it isn't all from "good D" as I've seen on many occasions..change of style? ballhogging players? what is the main reason behind this?..

I know this will upset a lot of Orlando fans, but the short answer is Dwight cannot carry his team offensively yet.

Cevap · Post #3 » by **Cevap** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 3:08 am

i personally blame lebron and his nike contract

j-ragg · Post #4 » by **j-ragg** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 3:09 am

Dwight is the #1 option on the team.

Would you rather have Dwight getting the ball or Arroyo turning it over?

andyhop · Post #5 » by **andyhop** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 3:12 am

The thing I don't like with teams with good big men is that as soon as the team falls behind by a few points even with lots of time left in the game,everyone forgets about feeding the big guy and starts chucking up 3's from everywhere as though that is the only way back into the game.

magicfan4life05 · Post #6 » by **magicfan4life05** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 3:15 am

I think it's a more perimeter oriented game, and with that the ball is in the hands of the guards much more and they are the ones making the decision of where it goes on the floor...consequently, there's more dribbling than passing and it affects most bigs imo...

LiquidFire · Post #7 » by **LiquidFire** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 3:21 am

Cevap wrote:i personally blame lebron and his nike contract

lol

GJense4181 · Post #8 » by **GJense4181** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 3:26 am

There are three perimeter players as opposed to two big men. Two dominant post players will interfere with each other (Zach Randolph and Eddy Curry) unless they can play high-low and the offense feeds through both of them (Tim Duncan/David Robinson).
Throw an increasing percentage of *scoring* pointguards and more frequent *point-forwards* and the ball/shot attempts are more little-guy-friendly.

Post #9 » by **INKtastic** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 3:28 am

perhaps because we have a generation of wing players who grew up watching the Jordan Bulls, who didn't pound the ball inside the way teams in the past did.

perhaps because zone defenses make it harder to work the ball inside as the inside player can be more easily double teamed.

Blame Rasho · Post #10 » by **Blame Rasho** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 3:34 am

The thing is that with post players you have to feed them the ball. Wing players can effectively create their own shot sense they are ball handlers. It is much easier for a player like Barbosa or Ginobili to get their shot off even if there are more efficient options in the post.

It also doesn't help that you can get killed in the paint and no foul is called but if you check someone out in the perimeter you get called for the foul.

HarlemHeat37 · Post #11 » by **HarlemHeat37** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 3:43 am

Cevap wrote:i personally blame lebron and his nike contract

it's cute that Cavs fans love me so much..they can never defend Lebron against what I say about him, but they always bring it up anyways..

Bobbcats · Post #12 » by **Bobbcats** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 3:52 am

I don't know I think the criticism's a little exaggerated with Howard. From what I saw today (not a big sample and I am probably wrong but...) Howard got the ball when he got good position. The announcers talk about how he should be getting the ball when he's not even open for a pass. Though I can see though that at this point with that kind of potential they should give him the ball even without position and let him practice creating shots from nothing.

durden_tyler · Post #13 » by **durden_tyler** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 4:16 am

Blame the pseudo zone.

i mean, defensively the primary strategy is to force the other team to take bad/low percentage shots, of course i will double and help inside (dominant big man or not) and take my chances on the perimeter players..

The Letter J · Post #14 » by **The Letter J** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 4:27 am

jzmagik wrote:I know this will upset a lot of Orlando fans, but the short answer is Dwight cannot carry his team offensively yet.

I wouldn't disagree with that. However, there are plenty of times when giving the ball to Dwight is a better option than what we go with. Dwight should be getting more shots in the 2nd half of games than he is now, but he's not ready to get the ball every time down like the great Cs of all-time have.

CupcakeNoFillin · Post #15 » by **CupcakeNoFillin** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 4:37 am

Patrick O'Bryant and Brandan Wright need more playing time for the Warriors.

djtruebeliever · Post #16 » by **djtruebeliever** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 4:39 am

I think a lot of it has to do with the foul-calling on the perimeter during the regular season. you can practically sneeze on a guy and get called for a foul on the outside during the regular season, so teams try to exploit that by running plays outside more during the rs. when those calls dry up a little during the playoffs you go back to the tried and true.
some of it probably has to do with resting your big guys a little as well. they will obviously get tired more quickly if they are bumping around in the post on offense all game long.

wolves_fan_82au · Post #17 » by **wolves_fan_82au** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 4:45 am

to many combo guards and not enough actual PG's ?? maybe???

i dunno but one thing i have notice about the wolves latley is the ammount of shots Jefferson has taken is doubled and we are winning from it

wezbo · Post #18 » by **wezbo** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 6:37 am

same thing with bynum only avg 7 shots a game

asdfgh · Post #19 » by **asdfgh** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 6:45 am

I think it's also because of that rule that doesn't let players (especially defenders) stay in the paint for more than a few seconds. I think big men began to become ineffective after that.

sacking123 · Post #20 » by **sacking123** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 10:39 am

IMO it has a lot to do with young players not being taught the fundamentals about TEAM basketball.
It seems every kids nowadays is just working on his jumpshot, thus more score first PGs for starters.
Perimeter players also get looked after a lot more as well.

Have a look at the league FG% leaders
1. Bynum (8.4 attempts per game)
2. Biedrans (7)
3. Chandler (8.1)
4. Howard (12.3)
5. Amare (14.2)
6. Shaq (9.9)

Some others mentioned are:
Bogut (10.

Curry (10.1)
Okafor (10.25)
Duncan (15.0)
Ilgauskas (11.5)
How many of these guys are actually getting enough shots per game?
Not many I would say, especially considering some would be getting 1-2 putbacks per game.
Maybe their teams fans could say how they are getting their shots etc.

Comparing to the top 6 scorers in the league:
Lebron (22.2 attempts per game)
Kobe (20.

Iverson (19.5)
Wade (18.6)
Carmelo (20)
K. Martin (15.5)
It is certainly a perimeter dominated league, but IMO the NBA is going through a pretty rich time in terms of big men, but they just aren't being used as much as in the past.
All in all though isn't it up to the coaches to utilise the big fellas.
IMO the Lakers have got it right.
Bynum is learning all of the time and his fgs have gone up and you have to give props to Kareem, Phil Jackson and certainly Kobe for utilising his talents.
Bynums attempts will go up a lot more next season as well.
Some of these other coaches and their staff need to get with the program because it isn't coincidence that the Lakers surge into the elite happened the same year Bynum showed so much improvement.