Honest Question: How will History view Shaq?

Jules Winnfield · Post #1 » by **Jules Winnfield** » Thu Feb 7, 2008 1:21 am

Ok, you got Shaq. 4 rings. 1 league MVP. 3 finals MVP. He dominated the league at the center position for about 12 years and is easily a top 10 player of all time. That's not the debate.

The debate seems to me is that every franchise Shaq goes to, he finds a way to destroy it for at least some period of time. Can't get along with Penny. Can't get along with Kobe, Mitch and Jerry Buss. D-wade calls him out and doesn't get along with Pat Riley. Orlando is just now recovering from losing Shaq. LA didn't reach its potential because of his "company time" healing and had a number of years of rebuilding. We don't know if Miami will recover.

Is Shaq despite his considerable impact, a franchise cancer? Is that a fair assessment? And who will he scapegoat this time if things don't go well in Phoenix?

Puertorique · Post #2 » by **Puertorique** » Thu Feb 7, 2008 1:25 am

For most of his career he has been in the NBA finals or Confrence Finals, pretty much the journey to hoisting a NBA championship ran through him and TD in this era. He hoisted a title 4 times. While winning 1 season MVP he won 3 NBA Finals MVP's. If history is to remember Shaq for anything less then a proven winner time and time again then history is only kidding it's self.

Number34 · Post #3 » by **Number34** » Thu Feb 7, 2008 1:27 am

Jules Winnfield wrote:Ok, you got Shaq. 4 rings. 1 league MVP. 3 finals MVP. He dominated the league at the center position for about 12 years and is easily a top 10 player of all time. That's not the debate.

The debate seems to me is that every franchise Shaq goes to, he finds a way to destroy it for at least some period of time. Can't get along with Penny. Can't get along with Kobe, Mitch and Jerry Buss. D-wade calls him out and doesn't get along with Pat Riley. Orlando is just now recovering from losing Shaq. LA didn't reach its potential because of his "company time" healing and had a number of years of rebuilding. We don't know if Miami will recover.

Is Shaq despite his considerable impact, a franchise cancer? Is that a fair assessment? And who will he scapegoat this time if things don't go well in Phoenix?

Look mate, we know you don't like shaq. But when has Dwade called him out and where does it say that he didn't get along with pat? Pat had nothing but good things to say about him recently.

Puertorique's post sums up how I think he will be remembered

Heat3 · Post #4 » by **Heat3** » Thu Feb 7, 2008 1:27 am

WTF? Shaq's only problem in Miami is he's old. He is certainly not leaving Miami like he left LA. Not in my view anyway. I don't even want him to go.

Why will Miami not recover? Trading him away just cleared $20M we can use to sign free agents.

magicfan4life05 · Post #5 » by **magicfan4life05** » Thu Feb 7, 2008 1:29 am

Here are my thoughts: He's been one of the most dominant player the past decade, a top five center of all time, and and one of the 50 GREATEST to play the game. He's been to five nba finals appearances with 3 different teams. He is a 4 time nba world champ and is a 3 time Finals MVP as well as a regular season MVP. He had a streak of 14 straight allstar appearances and wouldve had an all time mark with another one. besides the accomplishments, hes has one of the best on/off court personalities in the game and is a joy to watch.

i believe he'll be back THIS year and possibly with solid numbers. His hip is bothering his game more than his age, hopefully if hes healthy, he'll be back for 1 more run. He's put up solid 20/10 games for a short stretch earlier this year so maybe this trade can revitalize him one more time

btw "a franchise cancer?" wtf he helped bring 3 different teams to the nba finals lol, also excluding this year, his winning percentage has been amazing

much props to the diesel...

Nate505 · Post #6 » by **Nate505** » Thu Feb 7, 2008 1:36 am

I think he'll be viewed as one of the most dominant players in the game when he wanted to be. However, I also believed that he lacked the will (and most players do) and work ethic that Jordan had. Otherwise I do believe he'd have a couple more rings at least.

GIVE_WADE_THE_MAX · Post #7 » by **GIVE_WADE_THE_MAX** » Thu Feb 7, 2008 1:39 am

2 parts

1) Shaq will be remembered as the most genetically blessed basketball player in history. People will remember his prime(early 90's-mid 2000's) as one of the most dominant primes in nba history. Shaq was a machine that no team could guard straight up. Once he united with Pjax he became a 3 time champion. All in all he's still one of the best centers to ever play the game.

2) Although Shaq was so physically gifted he could've accomplished much more. If he dedicated hismelf to basketball year in and year out he would be top 7 ALL TIME. A lot of his critics will point to his lack of conditioning, ego , and his money-motivated mindset as keys to his downfall from top whatever status. Others will also point out to his inability to adapt to the NBA when his mobility decreased. Many other legends are revered for switching styles when their movement became less then ideal. Basically Shaq would have to go a long way in helping the Suns to avoid the 'ring chaser' logo.

jefe · Post #8 » by **jefe** » Thu Feb 7, 2008 1:49 am

Jules Winnfield wrote:Ok, you got Shaq. 4 rings. 1 league MVP. 3 finals MVP. He dominated the league at the center position for about 12 years and is easily a top 10 player of all time. That's not the debate.

The debate seems to me is that every franchise Shaq goes to, he finds a way to destroy it for at least some period of time. Can't get along with Penny. Can't get along with Kobe, Mitch and Jerry Buss. D-wade calls him out and doesn't get along with Pat Riley. Orlando is just now recovering from losing Shaq. LA didn't reach its potential because of his "company time" healing and had a number of years of rebuilding. We don't know if Miami will recover.

Is Shaq despite his considerable impact, a franchise cancer? Is that a fair assessment? And who will he scapegoat this time if things don't go well in Phoenix?

Wow, you're really grasping for straws IMO. As other posters have said, to win a championship from 99 until ...?..., with the exception of the Pistons, you've had to have Duncan or Shaq on your team. That's his legacy in a nutshell - not the myopic, carping criticism of those with axes to grind.

The Letter J · Post #9 » by **The Letter J** » Thu Feb 7, 2008 2:00 am

Any player that is a deciding factor on a championship team is not a cancer.

BROWN · Post #10 » by **BROWN** » Thu Feb 7, 2008 2:04 am

He'll still be considered one of the greatest centers to ever play the game

Post #11 » by **BBallFreak** » Thu Feb 7, 2008 2:25 am

A franchise cancer?

Was Jordan a franchise Cancer because the Bulls haven't gotten back to the Finals? Team haven't recovered from losing Shaq because HE'S THAT GOOD!

The Dolphins haven't recovered from the loss of Marino not because he was bad for the franchise, but because he's irreplaceable. Same goes for Shaq.

The OP really is someone with an axe to grind...

hsb · Post #12 » by **hsb** » Thu Feb 7, 2008 2:27 am

brownwarriors wrote:He'll still be considered one of the greatest centers to ever play the game

Basically, you cant really make any other story out of Shaq's career. He's a legend, one of the most dominant players to ever play.

CITYOFANGELSX3 · Post #13 » by **CITYOFANGELSX3** » Thu Feb 7, 2008 2:29 am

Ill remember shaq for those 3 titles in LA. But ill also remember the "i got hurt on company time, ill rehab on company time". Ill remember the Zero rebounding titles. Ill remember how it took for him to be traded to Miami to get motivated. Ill remember how he dunked then cursed at Owner Jerry Buss who was in the front row "PAY ME NOW". When he wanted an extention for 30 million per season.

Shaq was great, easily one of the greatest. But could of been a top 3 no doubt if he would of had the worth ethic of the all time greats.

Post #14 » by **tsherkin** » Thu Feb 7, 2008 2:36 am

GIVE_WADE_THE_MAX wrote: Basically Shaq would have to go a long way in helping the Suns to avoid the 'ring chaser' logo.

No way; when you took a team to the Finals as The Man and then won three consecutive titles with ANOTHER team as The Man and then were the second guy on ANOTHER title team, if you are moved to another franchise that has a shot at the title, you are not a 'ring chaser.'

Mitch Richmond was a ring-chaser; Karl Malone was a ring chaser (much as I still respect him, it's true). Gary Payton? Ring-chaser. Michael Finley? Ring-chaser.

Lots of guys were but Shaq's not a ring-chaser, he's been the guy who people come to in order to GET a ring, so what has happened here will never label him that way except by incredibly odd people.

realball · Post #15 » by **realball** » Thu Feb 7, 2008 2:42 am

He's a cancer if he's ruined the team while he's been there. This has never been the case for Shaq---it's always been after he left. If you're going to blame the downfall of your team in a post-Shaq era, blame your GM for making the wrong trades for him.

Parasight · Post #16 » by **Parasight** » Thu Feb 7, 2008 2:48 am

Shaq as a player: Outstanding
Shaq as a person: Absolutely outstanding

That's something not a lot of athletes can claim. Not much to hate about the guy, in my opinion. Sure he's not your Tim Duncan, a man devoted to his team and coach 100%. But other than his little rivalry with Kobe and I suppose with Penny as well, it's hard to argue that Shaq has been nothing but a big benefit to the league a whole. He defined a decade of basketball. His legacy will go untainted, as long as nothing too major happens in the future.

tha_rock220 · Post #17 » by **tha_rock220** » Thu Feb 7, 2008 2:48 am

You're right, he's ruined teams. It isn't like he got Orlando through the best years in their history, it isn't like he was the most irreplacable player while leading them to 3 championships(something they hadn't done for 12 years), and he certainly didn't go to Miami and make good on a promise to bring the city a title within two years.

How about during his prime he made every team with the good fortune of having him into instand contenders who were guaranteed to get into the 2nd round. Do you think Pat Riley for a minute regrets the lean times he's experiencing now so much he'd part with his latest ring to end them??? I can't stand Shaq at all, but he was great for teams, and anybody who says otherwise a dumbass.

andyhop · Post #18 » by **andyhop** » Thu Feb 7, 2008 2:49 am

I'll remember him as one of the greatest centres of all time, the most dominant force in the game for an extended period of years, and as someone who despite all of his achievements and awards is an underachiever due to his failure to keep himself in shape through his career.

That in my mind is the only honest way to remember him.

kooldude · Post #19 » by **kooldude** » Thu Feb 7, 2008 3:38 am

a tremendous player who could have been even better

writerman · Post #20 » by **writerman** » Thu Feb 7, 2008 3:44 am

Parasight wrote:Shaq as a player: Outstanding
Shaq as a person: Absolutely outstanding

That's something not a lot of athletes can claim. Not much to hate about the guy, in my opinion. Sure he's not your Tim Duncan, a man devoted to his team and coach 100%. But other than his little rivalry with Kobe and I suppose with Penny as well, it's hard to argue that Shaq has been nothing but a big benefit to the league a whole. He defined a decade of basketball. His legacy will go untainted, as long as nothing too major happens in the future.

there's no doubt Shaq was very physically gifted, if (IMO) not the top-tier athlete some seem to see him as having been. He's a big and enormously strong guy posessed of decent athleticism who in his most successful years was playing against overall maybe the most pathetic group of fives in league history.

However, as a person I always thought of him as an ignorant, arrogant buffoon, with Charles Barkley's outspokeness without Barkley's brains to make what he said insightful and interesting--just the bluster of a guy who knows he's the biggest SOB in the house and no-one is going to disagree with him because of that.