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Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 3:37 am
by JoshB914
The funny thing is Phx would have been better off letting JJ go for free. Instead they ended up with an overpaid, out of shape, piece of crap who is taking up $9M of cap space.
I want to cheer for Phoenix because they play such a great style. But having to listen to their fans cry all the time has made me change my mind.
Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 3:44 am
by b-ball forever
NDaATL wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
3 edits? Damn I must really be gettin under that skin tonight.
Uh, no. Don't get ur hopes up. It's all good fun, smack talk always comes along with being a sports fan. U guys shud be used to it by now
I censor myself at times just cuz I know that there's always some sissies out there that will cry over jacksquat. Don't wanna send any weak hearts into any sorta fits.
Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 3:47 am
by JoshB914
I don't come to come here to "talk smack." I am a grown man and I want to have a good discussion about basketball with other fans. Good luck against the Spurs.
Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 4:13 am
by b-ball forever
JoshB914 wrote:The funny thing is Phx would have been better off letting JJ go for free. Instead they ended up with an overpaid, out of shape, piece of crap who is taking up $9M of cap space.
b-ball forever wrote:On the Joe Johnson trade :
It was AWESOME. If ur management was smarter U guys cuda picked him for free thru the free agency since he was a RFA and the Suns weren't gonna give him the big bucks, nor the bigger role he wanted.
Instead we got a couple first rounders and Diaw for Nothing (JJ was gonna be a gonner no matter what). Even if we traded away Rondo and overpaid Diaw after that what we did get was still lots better then nothing.
As for Diaw, he won MIP, was our go-to guy on the team that led us to the frikin WCF in 2006, and totally saved our season that year, all on a rookie contract. Just for that alone the trade was worth it.
That's WAY more then Joe Johnson ever did for u guys on his HUGE contract, or ever wuda done for the Suns as a 4th option. Wake me up when he lets you into the ECF as the number 1 option.
Diaw's also been doin pretty well lately, so while he is overpaid there are worse contracts out there. Unlike sum utha teams, the Suns ARE championship contenders, so I can live with that.
Making the east conf 8th seed on a .451 record is cute, but u guys still have a LONGGG ways to go before u even start thinkin bout playin "my di*k is bigger then yours" with us
Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 5:09 am
by ilikecb4
this will be a clean sweep. The hawks might be able to pull 1 game out, maybe..and thats a big maybe
Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 11:49 am
by Mad Mike
b-ball forever wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
are you **** stupid? doris is lazy woman slob. If it wasn't for doris big ol contract the suns probably could have drafted a player in the last 5 years. You can't even talk about management because sarver or whatever is probably the worst owner right now. Camon 2 freaking first round picks and kurt thomas for bag of beans? Back to doris, i mean this guy had one good year which was his contract year and suns somehow think they won the jj trade. I got news for you buddy, your owner probably won't be keeping atlanta pick this year either...probably is gonna be traded for a future second round pick or something.
Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 2:26 pm
by b-ball forever
Mad Mike wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
are you **** stupid? doris is lazy woman slob. If it wasn't for doris big ol contract the suns probably could have drafted a player in the last 5 years. You can't even talk about management because sarver or whatever is probably the worst owner right now. Camon 2 freaking first round picks and kurt thomas for bag of beans? Back to doris, i mean this guy had one good year which was his contract year and suns somehow think they won the jj trade. I got news for you buddy, your owner probably won't be keeping atlanta pick this year either...probably is gonna be traded for a future second round pick or something.
And yet at the end of the day the Suns are still championship contenders and are still a hell lot better then ur team, and Doris still had a far more successful playoff run then JJ ever did.
Nitpicking at the Suns management's moves comes across as flat out (Please Use More Appropriate Word) when u look at all the brilliant moves and success the Hawks have had doesn't it?
As for draft moves u guys passed up on CP3 and D.Williams for Marvin Williams, fuggin AY!
So before u think bout hating on a team of the Suns caliber just take a good long look in mirror. "Mad Mike", correct choice of username for the according team
Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 2:49 pm
by NDaATL
b-ball forever wrote:And yet at the end of the day the Suns are still championship contenders and are still a hell lot better then ur team, and Doris still had a far more successful playoff run then JJ ever did.
Which has nothing to do with the Hawks raping the Suns on that trade.
Great choice with the Marvin over Paul selection, never heard that before.
Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 2:57 pm
by b-ball forever
NDaATL wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
Which has nothing to do with the Hawks raping the Suns on that trade.
Great choice with the Marvin over Paul selection, never heard that before.
It comes up frequently for a good reason, duh.
And since keep on wanting to go there... U guys were the ones who got ur butts abused in that trade, u cuda picked up JJ for free and kept those first rounders.
We got a guy who saved our 2006 season and won MIP, as well as 2 very nice picks for jacksquat, hows that for rapage?
Again wake me up when JJ leads u into the ECF as the go-to guy.
Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 3:04 pm
by jourdy
Why the hell are people arguing about the Suns and the Hawks in a Boston-Hawks series?
For a while there I thought I went in a wrong thread.
Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 3:11 pm
by b-ball forever
Yeah, lets get back on track... Celts sweeping the Hawks
Celts will prolly get all the garbage time they need to rest their starters and head fresh as into the 2nd round.
At least J-Smoove vs KG will make the series a fun watch.
This is where we'll see exactly how good Rondo is, see if he's the type that step's it up in the playoffs and all...
Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 3:57 pm
by Atlanta Hawk Fan
There is a real question whether Atlanta needed to include picks to get Joe Johnson from Phoenix, but that is just a question as to how sweet the deal is for Atlanta. Even with the picks, Atlanta lost a player who had one good year and then went back to being a passive waste space with a huge contract; lost a pick they could have used in 2006 (although when we take Shelden at #5 you have to question if we get the right person at #23); and lost the 15th pick in this draft. In exchange for that we have a 26 year old two-time all-star who is clearly a foundational player for a team that had almost nothing when he joined. The trade is a clear positive for Atlanta and the question of whether it could have been an even bigger positive isn't really worth debating 3 years later. Atlanta didn't give up Al Horford for the pick so what was lost just doesn't compare to having JJ.
The trade was fine for the Suns as well and actually looks better than it is for the Hawks because the Suns were in an insane GM mode where they gave away Luol Deng and Rajon Rondo for cash while signing Diaw and Banks to overly pricey contracts. I don't think second guessing the Suns on this amounts to much either because they have been a fantastic franchise that still had 3 HUGE building blocks after getting rid of JJ in Nash, Amare and Marion. If they truly would not have resigned JJ, getting Diaw and 2 protected first round picks is a nice addition to the team.
On the actual subject of the thread, Boston is too elite a defensive team to let Atlanta do much in this series, IMO. The team is committed to D, has offensive talent, and is committed to the success of the team. Their only challenge coming out of the East is going to come from Detroit -- not Atlanta. I hope the Hawks can steal a game or two but that is a longshot in and of itself. It is more likely that the Hawks get beat solidly/big for a few games and play the Celtics closely for a few games (like they played the Celtics starters last game) and then lose those closer games in the end by virtue of better clutch play from the Celtics down the stretch.
Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 4:18 pm
by celticfan42487
I disagree with your assestment on what it lost and cost the Suns. The suns weren't going to re-sign Joe, so therefore they should got nothing. Wether they re-signed Diaw or traded away two firsts or used the 6 million dollar excpetion is not material.
I hear the ends justify the means argument a lot of the Boston boards for Ainge and it's as much bull for forgiving someone's moves as it is for codemening them.
In the end ATL gave away two firsts and a player when they should of not given away those assets.
Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 4:34 pm
by Relentless88
Sweep, sorry ATL fans, this ain't going to be pretty.
Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 4:36 pm
by Atlanta Hawk Fan
celticfan42487 wrote:I disagree with your assestment on what it lost and cost the Suns. The suns weren't going to re-sign Joe, so therefore they should got nothing. Wether they re-signed Diaw or traded away two firsts or used the 6 million dollar excpetion is not material.
I hear the ends justify the means argument a lot of the Boston boards for Ainge and it's as much bull for forgiving someone's moves as it is for codemening them.
In the end ATL gave away two firsts and a player when they should of not given away those assets.
I said the trade was good for the Suns and you disagree. Mmmkay. You can second guess what the Suns did with the assets they acquired (too much for Diaw? Gave away Rondo? Who knows with this pick.) but that is splitting hairs because the bottomline is they got valuable assets for JJ - likely more valuable than they would have gotten from anyone else in a S&T. Good for them.
Re Atlanta, what the Hawks gave up was clearly less valuable than what they got. The question comes down to whether the Suns would have kept JJ or matched and subsequently dealt him if the Hawks refused to kick in one or both of the picks. (Losing Diaw was a positive given his play in Atlanta so that is not a real loss). As Raptor's GM, Jerry Colangelo said the Suns would have matched had Atlanta not kicked in the picks. Also, remember, that Amare was still on his rookie contract at the time so the Suns could have kept JJ shortterm and then dumped him for cap relief/picks if they chose to do so without incurring the luxury tax for more than a season. Even if it is likely that the Suns would not match, however, is that a risk worth taking?
If the Suns matched, Atlanta loses the only multiple All-Star it has had over the last decade and certainly the only big-time free agent it could have gotten who was young enough to grow with this core. JJ is 26 years old which is not the case for a lot of big FA acquisitions 3 years into their FA contract. So it was worth it to give up something in my mind to get certainty that you acquire JJ.
I have always contended that we gave up more than we had to but I think that Diaw and a first round pick (more protected if Atlanta's own) would have been fine. The real risk with the deal Atlanta made was if they didn't get a top 3 pick in 2007 (they did) or if they failed to make they playoffs in 2008 (they didn't). You can very credibly argue that it was too much, but the most the Hawks are really losing in this deal is a mid-round first and that isn't that huge a deal for this team (they don't need more youngsters given that they are the youngest team in the league as it is and will be bringing over David Anderson next season). The bottomline result is clearly positive for Atlanta and if they overpaid they didn't give up so much that it is worth fussing about 3 years down the line, IMO.
Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 4:54 pm
by TonyMontana
Wait isn't this the Celtics / Hawks thread ?
b-ball forever wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
And yet at the end of the day the Suns are still championship contenders
Contenders .... You guys have been contenders for the past 40 years since you came in the league ........
Good luck with the Spurs .
Suns fans always
, bitching and trying to convince everyone that they are contenders when year after year they fail to make it past the 1st or 2nd round .
Then they blame everybody from Stern to the reffs to the stock market crashing to Robert Horry ...........
Anyhow back to the thread .
Celtics in 5 .
Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 5:56 pm
by meatball sub
Shaq won't be able to fix Tony Parker destroying Steve Nash for the fourth year in a row.
Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 6:37 pm
by enigmatics
Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 6:52 pm
by arrpy
LMAO at the poll... 'Atlanta in 8'
Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 7:41 pm
by NDaATL
JJ isn't responsible for Billy Knights ridiculous draft day decisions. Otherwise we would be a legit team by now.
But I'm sick of arguing about PHX, please let's get back on topic.