Becky Hammon- traitor to USA Basketball team?

[berdy]

This is from ESPN's Outside the Lines:

http://sports.espn.go.com/broadband/vid ... 8&n8pe6c=2

[snaquille oatmeal]

I'm sorry, I don't think she's a "traitor" but you can't be an American and play in the Olympics for the f'cking Russians. Give me a break. It's inconceivable that a woman who grew up during the 80s would think this was no big deal. Forget the Kob to italy comparisons, can you imagine how Russians would react if Kirilenko decided to give it a go with Team USA? Or better yet, what if David Beckham was snubbed by English soccer again and decided he was going to play for France? If this International BS is supposed to have any meaning at all, you can't have players selling out to what passes for rivals for a fat contract. She isn't a traitor but this isn't a feel good, "good for her" type story either.

+1



if it is about fullfilling personal dreams and not about representing your country then why not make the Olympics about individuals instead of highlighting the importance of the athletes country.

[PhilipNelsonFan]

Becky Hammon's story really shows us two things:

1. How far we've come since the Cold War. 20 years ago, Becky Hammond would have been unapologetically crucified for playing for the Russians...and writerman is of the era where he sees this as a diplomatic insult. But on the flip side of the coin, the Russians would never have had the audacity to ask an American with dual citizenship (a rarity then and, presumably, now) to join their ranks without swearing off allegiance to her native country.

2. How utterly useless the Olympics have become. We know the men's basketball team doesn't care. The people who chastise Becky Hammon for her "lack of patriotism" inherently believe that there is a patriotic element to the Olympic Games, which has long since passed us by. Anymore, the Olympics are all spectacle, and we've already passed from disillusionment to numbness.

Read this for more about the Olympics' growing irrelevance.

I think you and that author both kind of miss the point. The Olympics historically aren't about country vs. country nationalism they're about putting that aside for a while and having the best athletes in the world compete, so yeah the USSR vs. USA stuff made it a little more exciting but

As far as China looking worse because of the Olympics or the Olympics becoming less popular, both of those are just wrong. China is in Olympic fever right now, and the world has pretty much already forgotten the whole Tibet thing.

The Olympics will stay strong so long as the athletes from every sport continue to love the competition, atmosphere and all being together in the same place. People love being part of the Olympics. Just because the author himself has lost interest recently doesn't mean it's a global trend.

If I'm not mistaken, you just directly contradicted yourself with the bolded part. But I see what you're getting at. Nevertheless, my point still stands; it's no longer halcyon. The Olympics are more nationalistic and patriotic than ever. If you consider that good, bad, right or wrong, that's entirely up to you, but you cannot ignore what is in effect already there. It's all about the medals and it always has been.

I won't touch on your second paragraph because that's Current Affairs jurisdiction, but you seem out of touch with how the world actually is. You can't honestly believe Tibet has been forgotten. Your last paragraph is pretty much on but I think you're neglecting the bigger picture.

[vwc228]

Anyone who has had to work and struggle in life to make a living should be able to fully understand her decision. She is getting paid very well to play for Russia. The US clearly did NOT want one of their own (best) players. what is she supposed to do? Stay at home and cry about it or take a very lucritave offer from another team that wants her?

For those who talk about patriotism and "love of country" etc etc etc...will patriotism come and pay her bills 5-10 years after she's done playing and finding it difficult to get another job (as most athletes do)? Will "love of nation" pay for her or her family's cancer treatment if (God forbid) they ever get sick? Will patriotism help her get back on her feet if she can't pay the mortgage on her house? I doubt it. In fact, no ONE will even ask about her once she's done (heck, it seems that even some of the coaching jobs in the WNBA are not even being givin to women and more men seem to be getting them).

Overlooking the fact that her country didn't want her, Becky did what any reasonable individual should do: she made a decision that will greatly help her and her family's financial well being. Good for her.

Another question: why are people like the Enron CEO, Martha Steward, and all the other people that lie and steal from the American public and actually do MUCH MORE harm to America not considered unpatriotic but someone like Becky who has done NO HARM to anyone in America is considered so? I think our moral compass is greatly skewed.

[6_Rings]

if she's a Russian citizen then by all means she should join their national team. nobody gave a hoot when she gave up her citizenship, and now when she becomes an asset to a foreign team that may affect the US team's chances, they call her a traitor. hypocrisy? false patriotism? take your pick.

[phd1969]

Must be some ballers on this forum for people giving her grief for playing for Russia and thus passing on $4 million.

[da.vid]

the USA coach should be investigated in this case and perhaps fired if in fact Becky is good enough to make the team...

How does being 2nd in MVP voting sound? Is that good enough for you to make the team?

highest american too, came 2nd behind lauren jackson (australian)

[OhMyBosh]

she is a Russian citizen only for the conveniece of travel because she plays in a Russian team in the off season and not because she loves Russia so much that she denounced her USA citicizenship, in fact she still a USA citizen as well.

Ever heard of dual-citizenship? Why would you only choose to be a citizen of one country if she has an opportunity to be of two. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. She spends a significant amount of her life in Russia so she can choose to play for them.

I have no idea why so many people are calling her out for this. It's the head coach that should be put to shame. Becky is a great player. You reject her offer and criticize her for choosing to play for another country that she's a citizen of? How can you call someone unpatriotic if they wanted to represent their country in the first place?

In fact, those who actually believes that she's selfish are selfish themselves. Not wanting a Russian citizen to play for their national team because she's also American, yet denyng her a spot on the USA Olympic roster. American patriotism? What about Russian patriotism?

when I said that she is a Russian citizen and a USA citizen, dual citizenship was implied so I don't know why you brought that up.

what I do call Becky on is the fact that the reason for her Russian citizenship is for traveling convinience and not patriotic allegiance to Russia. on that basis I see her decision to play for Russia as selfish and unpatriotic.
I am not saying she can't play for Russia. she can do whatever she wants, but I will say that she is making it about her and not about representing her country of patriotic allegiance.

so I will take the word of some previous posters and go with she is good enough for the USA team, then the coach should be investigated and hopefully fired.

How do you know she doesn't love the country as well? Do you think America is so great that she couldn't possibly like to live elsewhere except for the money? Give me a break. Russia is not the only other country that she can play basketball in. She's one of the greatest female basketball players in the world. She could played in Europe if she wanted to.

She's representing her country, so that's patriotic allegiance. Blame the coach for that country not being USA.

I don't really know why I'm spending so much time on this topic, but I just think it's a travesty that the media would be so ignorant and attack her actions only from an American point of view.

[snaquille oatmeal]

Anyone who has had to work and struggle in life to make a living should be able to fully understand her decision. She is getting paid very well to play for Russia. The US clearly did NOT want one of their own (best) players. what is she supposed to do? Stay at home and cry about it or take a very lucritave offer from another team that wants her?

Overlooking the fact that her country didn't want her, Becky did what any reasonable individual should do: she made a decision that will greatly help her and her family's financial well being. Good for her.

so she made her decision based on finacial gain rather than her patriotic allegiance and principals. I say that makes her at the very least a sell out.

For those who talk about patriotism and "love of country" etc etc etc...will patriotism come and pay her bills 5-10 years after she's done playing and finding it difficult to get another job (as most athletes do)? Will "love of nation" pay for her or her family's cancer treatment if (God forbid) they ever get sick? Will patriotism help her get back on her feet if she can't pay the mortgage on her house? I doubt it. In fact, no ONE will even ask about her once she's done (heck, it seems that even some of the coaching jobs in the WNBA are not even being givin to women and more men seem to be getting them).

maybe I am old fashioned, but I am one who beleives in personal sacrifises in the name of country and personal beleives.

one of those beleives is that when you participate in the Olympics you represent your country, the country that you hold dear and respect and are willing to sacrifice for. to me the Olympics are not just games for the sake of games. the Olympics represent a lot more than "it is just games".

the Olympic team represents the country that you pledge patriotic allegiance to and that is something that I personally would not sell out.

there have been many atheletes who have made those kind of gestures and commitments before. I am thinking of people like Joe Louis, Pat Tillman, Cassius Clay who sacrificed their primes for their beleifs, patriotism and principles.

I understand that not everybody has what it takes or even understands that type of loyalty to country in this era that it's required to make that huge of sacrifice. however if you are going for greatness in an iternational forum where country is more important than the athelete then it is not just about Dollars and Rubles.

if you would be content with winning a gold medal in the Olympics for a country that you don't have patriotic allegiance for because you got paid, then more power to you, but don't expect me to respect what you stand for.

Another question: why are people like the Enron CEO, Martha Steward, and all the other people that lie and steal from the American public and actually do MUCH MORE harm to America not considered unpatriotic but someone like Becky who has done NO HARM to anyone in America is considered so? I think our moral compass is greatly skewed.

it is a selfish, unpatriotic act to basically sell out your principles and play for a country in the Olympics that she does not have a patriotic allegiance for. like I said before I would not call her a traitor or even unpatriotic in the general sense, but the act itself is selfish and unpatriotic.

as far as the Enron CEO and Martha Steward goes they commited criminal acts and I look apon them as criminals.

now Karl Rove, Dick Chaney, Scooter Libby, W, and co in the Plame issue, that is a different story all together, but that is also a topic for the CA board.

if she's a Russian citizen then by all means she should join their national team. nobody gave a hoot when she gave up her citizenship, and now when she becomes an asset to a foreign team that may affect the US team's chances, they call her a traitor. hypocrisy? false patriotism? take your pick.
if she's a Russian citizen then by all means she should join their national team. nobody gave a hoot when she gave up her citizenship, and now when she becomes an asset to a foreign team that may affect the US team's chances, they call her a traitor. hypocrisy? false patriotism? take your pick.

she never gave up her US citizenship. she has duel citizenship. she has also stated that her patriotic allegiance is to the USA and that she accepted the Russian citezenship because it is more convinient for her to travel in Russia when her team plays road games all around Russia.

[Mr. E]

Based on the facts of the situation, I have no problem with the decision that she made. It does bring into light something that has always bothered me with International Competition, and that is the Dual Citizenship situation.

I don't want to see this rule exploited where someone is given citizenship of another country just so that they will represent them. It would be like Free Agency in international games, and I just don't want to see that.

I think that the IOC, FIBA or any other international sports organization should have a ground rule that if you play for one country in an international event, then you cannot play for another later on in that same event (with the exception being if they completely change citizenship).

"Traitor" is too harsh of a word to be associated with sports.

[Nashty]

You go girl!

[mickie]

it's funny how it's a big deal when a country like Russia offers a PRO athlete to play for them but no one says anything when US offers every good athlete around the world to play for them. *someone say double standard or just pure ignorance*


good for Becky for not giving up with her dreams. that coach is an idiot! now, i'll be cheering for Russia just to piss that coach off!

[Mr. E]

it's funny how it's a big deal when a country like Russia offers a PRO athlete to play for them but no one says anything when US offers every good athlete around the world to play for them. *someone say double standard or just pure ignorance*

Umm....who on any roster of our Olympic squads are from foreign countries?

[Nashty]

Umm....who on any roster of our Olympic squads are from foreign countries?

Tanith Belbin, originally a canadian who now holds dual citenzship.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanith_Belbin

Belbin and Agosto qualified for the 2002 Olympics by placing second at U.S. championships, but were not able to go because Belbin was not an American citizen. Because Belbin started the citizenship process before new rules went into effect, her citizenship would not have been completed before 2007. Belbin and Agosto, therefore, focused more on Nationals and Worlds, winning Nationals four times, and earning the silver at Worlds going into the Olympics.

Fans of Belbin and Agosto wrote letters and signed petitions asking for a special act of Congress to let Belbin become a citizen in time for her to compete at the 2006 Winter Olympics, where many believed they could medal. This was a controversial move. The mother of fellow American ice dancer David Mitchell believed that it was unfair to bend the rules for Belbin.[1] Supporters pointed out that the U.S. had three dance team spots at the Olympics only because Belbin and Agosto had earned the third spot by medalling at the 2005 World Championships. Had they not, the U.S. would have had only two spots. By this logic, Belbin and Agosto had earned their own spots. But the point was moot after Mitchell and his partner Loren Galler-Rabinowitz placed ninth at U.S. championships, nowhere near earning a spot on the World team.

However, by a special act of Congress on December 28, 2005, which President George W. Bush signed on December 31, 2005, Belbin became a naturalized citizen, making her able to compete for the United States at the 2006 Winter Olympics. In January 2006, the pair won their third consecutive national title and qualified for the Olympics. Maxim Zavozin, who is half of the 2005 Junior World Champion team of Matthews and Zavozin, also became a U.S. citizen through this special act.

[mickie]

it's funny how it's a big deal when a country like Russia offers a PRO athlete to play for them but no one says anything when US offers every good athlete around the world to play for them. *someone say double standard or just pure ignorance*

Umm....who on any roster of our Olympic squads are from foreign countries?

you're kiddin' me right?

[snaquille oatmeal]

it's funny how it's a big deal when a country like Russia offers a PRO athlete to play for them but no one says anything when US offers every good athlete around the world to play for them. *someone say double standard or just pure ignorance*


good for Becky for not giving up with her dreams. that coach is an idiot! now, i'll be cheering for Russia just to piss that coach off!

btw, was her dream to represent and win a gold medal for her country in the Olympics or to play for the Russians for money in the Olympics?

I said my peace about loyalty to country in the Olympics and that includes all athletes not just Becky.....you hear that Kaman! :shakes fist:


I would also like to add that I feel the same way about the Soccer World cup as I do about the Olympics.

[da.vid]

Umm....who on any roster of our Olympic squads are from foreign countries?

Tanith Belbin, originally a canadian who now holds dual citenzship.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanith_Belbin

Belbin and Agosto qualified for the 2002 Olympics by placing second at U.S. championships, but were not able to go because Belbin was not an American citizen. Because Belbin started the citizenship process before new rules went into effect, her citizenship would not have been completed before 2007. Belbin and Agosto, therefore, focused more on Nationals and Worlds, winning Nationals four times, and earning the silver at Worlds going into the Olympics.

Fans of Belbin and Agosto wrote letters and signed petitions asking for a special act of Congress to let Belbin become a citizen in time for her to compete at the 2006 Winter Olympics, where many believed they could medal. This was a controversial move. The mother of fellow American ice dancer David Mitchell believed that it was unfair to bend the rules for Belbin.[1] Supporters pointed out that the U.S. had three dance team spots at the Olympics only because Belbin and Agosto had earned the third spot by medalling at the 2005 World Championships. Had they not, the U.S. would have had only two spots. By this logic, Belbin and Agosto had earned their own spots. But the point was moot after Mitchell and his partner Loren Galler-Rabinowitz placed ninth at U.S. championships, nowhere near earning a spot on the World team.

However, by a special act of Congress on December 28, 2005, which President George W. Bush signed on December 31, 2005, Belbin became a naturalized citizen, making her able to compete for the United States at the 2006 Winter Olympics. In January 2006, the pair won their third consecutive national title and qualified for the Olympics. Maxim Zavozin, who is half of the 2005 Junior World Champion team of Matthews and Zavozin, also became a U.S. citizen through this special act.

yeah i was just about to bring this up

[Mr. E]

it's funny how it's a big deal when a country like Russia offers a PRO athlete to play for them but no one says anything when US offers every good athlete around the world to play for them. *someone say double standard or just pure ignorance*

Umm....who on any roster of our Olympic squads are from foreign countries?

you're kiddin' me right?

No, I'm not.

I think that you're mixing arguments right now.

When discussing Becky Hammon, the "traitor" argument comes from the fact that she is playing for a country that is not the US in an international competition. That is a point of contention with some people, it seems. I think that you are mixing in the aspect of professional athletes playing in foreign countries, whereas the two simply are not connected. They are two different arguments.

Now again, if you are saying that the US is going out and getting athletes from France, Nigeria, New Zealand or Malaysia to compete for us in the Olympics then I would have to say that you're wrong. That's what is being discussed here.

If you are saying that foreing players like Yao Ming, Dirk Nowitski or Tony Parker are being paid millions to play in the US, then you are correct, but that has absolutely nothing to do with what people are talking about here. It is an entirely different issue.

[Mr. E]

Umm....who on any roster of our Olympic squads are from foreign countries?

Tanith Belbin, originally a canadian who now holds dual citenzship.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanith_Belbin

Wow...I did not know that. I guess that shows just how little attention I pay to the Snowy Games!

[Realm_G]

http://209.63.75.178//multimedia/images/IMG_5642.jpg

Dum, dum dum!

I for one think politics is for idiots and she should just go have fun.

American patriotism pffft. It's like saying your mother doesn't love you anymore because you dye your hair purple (I couldn't think of an example that wouldn't offend). The mother may not like it, but they both still love each other.