"Immediate Contender" vs "Team Growing Together"

[ropjhk]

Tough call. Great teams that grow together tend to dominate for longer stretches of time (Spurs, First iteration of Jordan Bulls, Webber era Kings), yet teams who make trades to become an immediate contender seem to have the best shot of winning a title in any given year (Heat, .

Most teams are somewhere in between the two philosophies, like Detroit in 2003-2004. The earlier trade for Rip Hamilton, and the signing of Chauncey Billups in previous seasons were moves to build a core for the future along with Memet Okur, Ben Wallace, Prince and Darko (Detroit could have easily traded the #2 pick for a star player to make an immediate push). As the season went on, I think Dumars realized that his team was closer to a championship than he realized. Thus the trade for Rasheed Wallace, a win now move.

In the end, no matter what path you take, you need good management at the helm to guide the organization. Here are some examples of failures:

Indiana Pacers - Were going to grow with Jermaine O'Neal, Ron Artest, Jamall Tinsley, Stephen Jackson... They were talented and had lots of potential as a team, until Ron Artest blew things up.

Sixers - Were trying desperately to become contenders when they paired up AI with Chris Webber... Unfortunately for them Webber's knees were already destroyed by the time he arrived.

Clippers - Had an excellent core of Andre Miller, Brand, Magette, Odom, Q Rich and more... But like with all things Clippers, Sterling wouldn't open up the pocketbook to keep Odom from fleeing to Miami.

Knicks - Traded draft picks and promising young players during the Isaiah Thomas era to aquire McDysse, Marbury, Francis, Curry, Randolph... And despite aquiring the better talents in all these trades, Thomas proved how talent cannot overcome a lack of team chemistry.

[Kefa461]

Seen it done both ways....it depends what boat you are in......just win....whichever way gets you the ring faster......

[microfib4thewin]

Spurs hasn't done anything with the draft since Tony Parker. Their 3 man core did stay together, but most of the team was built via underpaid veterans who can shoot and play defense.

[celticfan42487]

Come to think of it are the Spurs the only team to pick up a core from free agency aside from DET?

Or was Manu and unkown who was drafted?

[richboy]

The days of waiting for young players to grow and take baby steps to a title are over. Everyone thinks this is the 80s. That you work your way to the top like the Pistons and Bulls did. The CBA ended those days. Now its possible to go from the lottery to the championship. If your busy letting young players grow your likely to get jumped.


In the past you would look at the old Celtics and Pistons and think the young Bulls would jump them soon. In today's NBA thats not the case. With the value of expiring contracts you can make lopsided trades that can turn a mediocre team into a championship contender quickly. Orlando or Cleveland were perhaps the third best team in the East this year. Toronto makes 1 lopsided trade they could jump both those teams. Miami was horrible last year. They make the right trade they could be in the finals next year.

In todays NBA you get young players. You figure out which ones you want to build around. Then you trade the others for better players. The problem with young teams is they are usually bad and the saying someone has to score and rebound applies. What would Josh Smith average if he played on the Spurs. Look at Jeff Green. I hear fans saying whatever team he plays for now is building around him and Durant. Look at his numbers though. Horrible production and efficiency. He averaged 10 points per game on a bad team and the team is talking about him as the future. He played enough he should have gotten 10 points per game. He gets 40 DNps on a good team and doesn't crack 15 mpg. A good gm needs to find out who is the real deal and who is fake.

Letting a young team play is fine. You just better be sure you have the group that can get the job done in the future. I think you may have that in Portland. A team like the Hawks who have yet to make a trade with any of there young pieces is laughable since they have yet to even play 500 ball.

If you look at the recent past, there are really only 2 teams that won a championship after a trade.

That was the Heat and the Celtics

Every other team has had to "grow" together. Bulls, Lakers,Spurs,Pistons, all had starting lineups that remained basically intact for 3-5 years, suffer through conference finals and semi-finals defeats and first round losses.

Personally i think that no team is in a better position than Portland. Any GM that says he'd rather have his team than Portland's is lying. Maybe with the exception of the Lakers with a reasonably young mega-star in Kobe and a young improving core outside of him.

The Spurs didn't grow together. They drafted Tim Duncan and they were a champion shortly after.

The Pistons didn't grow together. The year they won the title they had 2 new starters from the previous year in Prince and Rasheed Wallace.

Did the Bulls really grow together on there second 3-peat? Outside of Jordan and Pippen pretty much the entire roster was different from even a couple of years earlier.

The Spurs have won more than 1 title. The core of Bowen, Ginobli, Parker, and Duncan have grown together. You can't deny that. After Robinson retired the Spurs ASSEMBLED a team through the draft around Duncan whom they also drafted. The Spurs and Lakers are excellent examples of teams growing together.

Outside the 3 peat? The 3 peat isn't a good enough example of growing together? I'm not saying I wouldn't want an immediate contender, but I'm not sure that was the question.

Lets be real. Were talking about a team that had Duncan on it and was already a championship contender. How can they be considered a team that grew together. Parker first year they won 58 games. They year before he was there they won 58 games. The next year they won 60. That was Manu rookie year. They won the NBA title.

Outside of the first 3 peat? The Bulls 72 win team and past was not a team that grew together. Kukoc, Longley, Kerr, Harper, Rodman, Wennington, etc were all brought there within a year or two.

[ropjhk]

Come to think of it are the Spurs the only team to pick up a core from free agency aside from DET?

Or was Manu and unkown who was drafted?

Manu was an unknown who was drafted in the second round in 1999, and didn't play for the Spurs until 2002.

[Alex_De_Large]

If you are in the East. Its pretty clear for me:

Immediate Contender

[Odonism]

I see the value in both approaches.

If your a young team like the C's in 2007 that didnt have a developing star or two that was going to be able to get you to a championship level it makes sense to go out and aquire the talent to compete in the short run. Had the Celtics gotten the opportunity to draft Greg Oden they likely would have considered going in a different direction and building for a dynasty. As it is they have three years to compete and then start over. It was well worth it in this case. But the opportunity cost of lossing Oden could have been 10 titles.

I see a team like Clevelend that has a young talented player in LeBron that would have a title by now if he had some guys like Roy and LMA next to him but he doesnt. He has a bunch of overpaid veteran scrubs. What do they do? They have vets that everyone associates with winning but they seem to be regressing now.

I think Chicago is a great example of a team that needs to liquidate some talent for stars and make a run for it. I dont see Rose as a superstar that can win titles in Chicago even if that team develops. However they could have made a run at Brand, O'neil, Zach, VC, TMac, and dont forget they had a chance at kobe. Hinrich, Deng, and Gordon could still bring in a star to team with Rose and allow that team to compete.

Portland is the only young team that is truly set up for a Dynasty through growth. The core of LMA and Roy will be going into there third seasons together and have developed that chemistry. The outer core of Webster, TLaw, and Pryz have also been around for the past 3 seasons. So this team has developed chemistry and has proven talent that is young and can still grow together. They understand each others strengths and weaknesses already.

Add Greg Oden to that and you have something that could be special for a long time. Of course its still about potential. So it will be important to recognize what players outside the big three need to be moved to get the star player to put them over the top if things dont work out. But as it stands now they have a great mix of skills, young talented skills, cap space in 09, and an expiring contract that could get them the peice they need to be contender this season without sacraficing any of the core young talent.