Can it be said that Portland messed up taking Oden now?

[Flash3]

Didn't this JordansBulls guy post this last off season too ?

Anyway to answer the question...........the answer is NO. Why on earth would they take Durant when they had Roy ? Roy is already an All Star, Durant isn't. Roy has been the main cog in the turn around of the Blazers and has gotten his team to the playoffs, Durant hasn't.

As far as Oden, Portland needed in the worst way a big. A big who given by all the projection could be an All Star for many years. Portland has Durant's position filled 3 deep anyway, with Webster, Outlaw and Roy.

Oden is in the perfect situation in Portland, he won't be counted on to win games that's Roy's job. While Durant is counted on to help OKC win games, but his years will be wasted because it'll be a while before they win like Portland.

So. you're saying that Roy/Durant + Def/Rebounding C isn't better than Roy and The potential of Oden?

[Cro_Ruption]

Durant is a better “player” right now, but he isn’t enough of one to take a team with a lot of talent like OKC and lead them to non-horribleness. That makes him not as good as Roy, who did more with less talent.

But, Durant is a terrific scorer and very young, so he won’t get blamed for his team’s woes.

Oden, in limited minutes, was more effective at creating wins in my opinion. He had a TON of problems though, and was very awkward and couldn’t get out of his own way with fouls. His conditioning was bad. The year away from basketball did him no favors with improving his offensive game, or working on his coordination.

Despite all of that, he averaged 9/7 in 20 minutes. That is pretty damn good in a super young, extremely raw-as-cookie-dough big man.

But is it as good as 25/6 in a perimeter player the same age? I can’t blame someone for thinking the 25/6 is worth more.

I’m a guy who argued for Durant before that draft, and has since been disappointed by how he has developed thus far. Despite his scoring, he’s an overall bad offensive player. I think his defense will improve, so I don’t worry as much about that as I do his offensive court awareness and playmaking ability.

I am a big Oden believer though, and I think the sky is the limit for him. Only time will tell who is “better”, but even with Oden’s awkward rookie year and Durant’s prodigious scoring ability, I am pretty sure Oden is the better choice. We simply don’t need someone of Durant’s skillset next to Roy.

And Roy is clearly the better player… clearly. Many tiers above Durant. Durant has amazing percentages and is a very versatile scorer, and it has resulted in 2 points a game more than the non-future-scoring-champ Roy. I don’t expect that to last, but Roy will continue to score 23 PPG and at least 5 assists. Durant will score 30 points and average 2 assists and 3 turnovers. Even with the better percentages and versatile scoring ability, which is better? I think it is obvious.

You simply can’t blame others for not turning to Oden’s per-36 numbers, his PER, his WoW, etc, to compare him to Durant. Right now, Oden fouls a lot and is a 9/7/1 dude. Durant is 25/6. I can’t blame someone for thinking Durant matters more.

ANY DEBATE though, has to wait, because both are extremely young, coupled with extenuating circumstances and raw-ness for Oden and playing on a bad team for Durant. No matter one’s opinion, I don’t think there is much profit to be had to get really into this sort of debate.

via mortimer from bedge

[slick_watts]

They would take Kevin Durant 100 times out of 100. KD's numbers speak for themselves, the people here using OKC's win totals the last two seasons as some kind of evidence that Durant's production does not lead to wins are misguided. Comparing the team to Portland is also ridiculous, since Portland (and Brandon Roy) has a lot more to work with than OKC does. I've broken down the rosters several times in previous threads of this nature and it becomes painfully obvious how bad OKC was aside from KD. The argument that the team was better in the eight game stretch Durant was out is silly as well - they won against mostly weak competition and it's a pretty small sample size to be making any kind of conclusions.

Durant's ability to score efficiently, his potential in other areas that haven't even been realized yet (defense, passing).. you take Durant here if Portland has to make the decision again right now. Oden's a big question mark with a lot of 'ifs'. There's a possibility he might figure it out, but Durant's already top five at his position and will probably be top 3 very soon.

[slick_watts]

I’m a guy who argued for Durant before that draft, and has since been disappointed by how he has developed thus far. Despite his scoring, he’s an overall bad offensive player. I think his defense will improve, so I don’t worry as much about that as I do his offensive court awareness and playmaking ability.

Can you elaborate on this? Have you seen him play? He plays a very aware, in control type of basketball...

[D-31]

Durant has definitely not done everything right, if he did, he'd have a championship.

Can you elaborate on this?

I think it's pretty simple, no reason to.

You can't say Portland screwed up until Durant makes the playoffs.

Right now Durant is nothing more than a ballhog who can't win anything.

Well coincidentally what is Oden? He wasn't any factor, or much I should say in his team getting there. He's got a great team around him with an even better coach.

Durant's team in OKC is only now coming together.

Oden is a player whose team plays better with him then without him +2.4 on/off court. 40-21, 65.6 Win % for his career when he plays. 55-48, 53.4 win % when he doesn't play.

Now lets look at Durant:
37-117 win percentage of 24% when Durant plays. 6-4, 60% when he doesn't play. On/Off -8.9 He can't even get his team to play better OFFENSIVELY when he's on the court because of his ball hogging.

Now that I've proven Oden was worth it, the question should now be whether or not Seattle/OKC would have been better off if Durant had to receive microfracture surgery. The answer would most likely be yes.

[DEEP3CL]

So. you're saying that Roy/Durant + Def/Rebounding C isn't better than Roy and The potential of Oden?

OK let me simplify this, why would they draft a guy when they had the position filled with Roy ? Durant is a 3 but got away with running at the 2. But primarily he played the 2 his first couple of season's. No doubt that Roy and Durant would've been a hell'va combo, but you draft sometimes for a position of need. Portland needed a big period no matter how you cut it.

Let's see how good KD will be at his natural position of SF now that they have James Harden running at the 2.

As far as Oden, everybody knew he had "potential". Thing is he's just caught some bad breaks as far as injuries. I don't think Portland was banking on forming a elite dual. They were banking on building a complete and dominate team and Oden was just a piece of the puzzle.

Let's say the Blazers drafted Durant, can anybody say they'd be in the position there in now ?

It's no guarantee they would've been better, looking at the rest of the teams with bigs in the west Portland had to draft Oden period. You have to project long term.

The thing that makes the Blazers so good is their depth, probably the deepest team in this league. Drafting Durant means they would've had to eventually part with Webster or Outlaw, because somebody was going to play period.

[Dedicated_76ers_fan]

Durant is a supremely better ball player then Outlaw/Webster. If that's your argument -_-

[AZ BLAZER]

They would take Kevin Durant 100 times out of 100. KD's numbers speak for themselves, the people here using OKC's win totals the last two seasons as some kind of evidence that Durant's production does not lead to wins are misguided. Comparing the team to Portland is also ridiculous, since Portland (and Brandon Roy) has a lot more to work with than OKC does. I've broken down the rosters several times in previous threads of this nature and it becomes painfully obvious how bad OKC was aside from KD. The argument that the team was better in the eight game stretch Durant was out is silly as well - they won against mostly weak competition and it's a pretty small sample size to be making any kind of conclusions.

Durant's ability to score efficiently, his potential in other areas that haven't even been realized yet (defense, passing).. you take Durant here if Portland has to make the decision again right now. Oden's a big question mark with a lot of 'ifs'. There's a possibility he might figure it out, but Durant's already top five at his position and will probably be top 3 very soon.

Keep telling yourself this stuff. If you repeat it three times and click your ruby slippers together it just may come true. Just accept the fact that Portland did not need Durant, they need a franchise center, and they got one that was derailed for a year.

For those that say Durant would be Roy's Pippen, that is laughable. Pippen was a lockdown defender, point forward, very good offense 50 greatest players of all time. Which of those accolades does Durant fullfill? Durant can not guard a chair, but gets credit on RealGM as having the "ability" to develop that skill because he is long and quick. Big deal, so Durant can improve his defense but Oden can not improve anything according to RealGM? Thanks, now I get it. RealGM is the land of double standards.

[Visirale]

LOL. Durant would be the much better choice no matter how you look at it.

If him and Roy didn't mesh, they could trade the lesser of the two for a much more proven center than Oden and be in a much better position now. Brandon Roy or Kevin Durant would be able to draw a very good center form somewhere... there's really not such a thing as having too much talent.

[HMFFL]

Kevin Durant has heart and the will to win. Greg Oden lacks both of those and at some point it would be nice to see him have more passion for the game. Give him another couple years and he can possibly prove the doubters wrong. It's not like he's making 12.5 million like Andrew Bynum, so give Greg more time while he's still on his rookie contract.

lol yeah Durant's awesome will to win helped him a lot as he was sitting home watching Oden and Ohio State march through the NCAA tournament. It amazes me how many people would question this kid's heart when all he does in win where ever he has been, and he plays hurt. You don't know Greg Oden, you don't know about his will to win. I wonder why you would sound so absolute when you don't know the person.

Ohio State was clearly the better team. You're comparing a team instead of comparing the individuals which is exactly what this thread is about. Kevin has more emotion and plays with it and the same cannot be said for Greg Oden. Have you actually ever watched the two of them play?

I'm not knocking Greg at all. I believe he's going to live up to his potential, but I personally believe Kevin has more passion for the game, and Greg is more laid back.

[BlazertheGreek]

I wonder if picking Durant, would Roy be the player he is today? With Durant you have another player who demands shots in order to be effective. Taking shots away from Roy and Aldridge would have hampered them. I think Durant is the better player and maybe would have been the better pick, but I think Roy's career wouldn't be where it is if we had picked KD. IMHO of course.

[Ito]

I am sure they would have played well together, Roy and Durant are very unselfish players, they would get their points regardless

[BlazerFanDan]

I wonder if picking Durant, would Roy be the player he is today? With Durant you have another player who demands shots in order to be effective. Taking shots away from Roy and Aldridge would have hampered them. I think Durant is the better player and maybe would have been the better pick, but I think Roy's career wouldn't be where it is if we had picked KD. IMHO of course.

Also, why would you assume Durant would be on the level he is on OKC if he were in Portland? Durant probably wouldn't be utilized here like he is there and wouldn't be an as effective offensive weapon. Also, i'm sure all of us Blazer fans would just love Pryz to be grooming Steven Hill to be the center of the future, or maybe HA!

[D-31]

Ohio State was clearly the better team. You're comparing a team instead of comparing the individuals which is exactly what this thread is about. Kevin has more emotion and plays with it and the same cannot be said for Greg Oden. Have you actually ever watched the two of them play?

I'm not knocking Greg at all. I believe he's going to live up to his potential, but I personally believe Kevin has more passion for the game, and Greg is more laid back.

The problem is that Durant has underperformed with his team while Oden has over-performed.

I also think you're getting too caught up in a players emotions. Tim Duncan doesn't show emotion on the court but some people love/loved Iverson's attitude a "love" for the game.

Duncan is a winner.
AI is a loser.

Emotion has nothing to do with it.

[Mumbles]

Kevin Durant has heart and the will to win. Greg Oden lacks both of those and at some point it would be nice to see him have more passion for the game. Give him another couple years and he can possibly prove the doubters wrong. It's not like he's making 12.5 million like Andrew Bynum, so give Greg more time while he's still on his rookie contract.

lol yeah Durant's awesome will to win helped him a lot as he was sitting home watching Oden and Ohio State march through the NCAA tournament. It amazes me how many people would question this kid's heart when all he does in win where ever he has been, and he plays hurt. You don't know Greg Oden, you don't know about his will to win. I wonder why you would sound so absolute when you don't know the person.

Ohio State was clearly the better team. You're comparing a team instead of comparing the individuals which is exactly what this thread is about.


(I used Ohio State as an example because part of what got them to the final four was Greg Oden's WILL TO WIN, something that you falsely accused him to lack.)

Kevin has more emotion and plays with it and the same cannot be said for Greg Oden. Have you actually ever watched the two of them play?

(lol, Sasha Vujacic plays with more emotion than Greg Oden. Does that mean Oden lacks the will to win? Don't mistake an introverted personality & calm demeanor as not having any passion. I'll give you a pass though because many criticize him for that,. I've been watching Oden play since his junior year of high school, and he's shown emotion plenty of times.)


I'm not knocking Greg at all. I believe he's going to live up to his potential, but I personally believe Kevin has more passion for the game, and Greg is more laid back.

(HMFFL, you have no heart whatsover, now I'm not knocking you. Maybe you can buy a heart at the store which will allow you to have more will to be a better poster, but i'm not knocking you at all)

[b](We respectfully disagreee sir, I've watched more Oden games than you. If you did not see much emotion from Oden last season, it was because he was not comfortable, however that doesn't mean he doesn't have any passion or a heart for the game. You are incorrect with your assertion)
[/b]

[BlazertheGreek]

I wonder if picking Durant, would Roy be the player he is today? With Durant you have another player who demands shots in order to be effective. Taking shots away from Roy and Aldridge would have hampered them. I think Durant is the better player and maybe would have been the better pick, but I think Roy's career wouldn't be where it is if we had picked KD. IMHO of course.

Also, why would you assume Durant would be on the level he is on OKC if he were in Portland? Durant probably wouldn't be utilized here like he is there and wouldn't be an as effective offensive weapon. Also, i'm sure all of us Blazer fans would just love Pryz to be grooming Steven Hill to be the center of the future, or maybe HA!

Ha is a dominant force! What were we thinking when we let him go. Ha and Kevin Durant would have been a dominant force for years to come.

[slick_watts]

They would take Kevin Durant 100 times out of 100. KD's numbers speak for themselves, the people here using OKC's win totals the last two seasons as some kind of evidence that Durant's production does not lead to wins are misguided. Comparing the team to Portland is also ridiculous, since Portland (and Brandon Roy) has a lot more to work with than OKC does. I've broken down the rosters several times in previous threads of this nature and it becomes painfully obvious how bad OKC was aside from KD. The argument that the team was better in the eight game stretch Durant was out is silly as well - they won against mostly weak competition and it's a pretty small sample size to be making any kind of conclusions.

Durant's ability to score efficiently, his potential in other areas that haven't even been realized yet (defense, passing).. you take Durant here if Portland has to make the decision again right now. Oden's a big question mark with a lot of 'ifs'. There's a possibility he might figure it out, but Durant's already top five at his position and will probably be top 3 very soon.

Keep telling yourself this stuff. If you repeat it three times and click your ruby slippers together it just may come true. Just accept the fact that Portland did not need Durant, they need a franchise center, and they got one that was derailed for a year.

For those that say Durant would be Roy's Pippen, that is laughable. Pippen was a lockdown defender, point forward, very good offense 50 greatest players of all time. Which of those accolades does Durant fullfill? Durant can not guard a chair, but gets credit on RealGM as having the "ability" to develop that skill because he is long and quick. Big deal, so Durant can improve his defense but Oden can not improve anything according to RealGM? Thanks, now I get it. RealGM is the land of double standards.

I think the point is that KD is already an elite player at his position, Greg Oden has to change a lot of things about his game and his health to even get to where Durant is currently. Which speaks nothing to the fact that Durant will probably continue to get better. It's not a double standard at all, both players will certainly continue to improve, but Durant obviously has a head start on things with fewer question marks.

Many Blazer fans are describing what Oden has experienced as a temporary set back, but there's no certainty at all that he'll get through his problems and remain healthy. Durant's status as an elite player (at a position of need for the Blazers as well, no less) would make him more appealing to Portland if they had to make the choice again with the knowledge of events up to this point. Would they risk a guaranteed All-Star / Top 3 small forward for today's Greg Oden? I'm not sure they would.

[Ito]

You can't say Portland screwed up until Durant makes the playoffs.

Right now Durant is nothing more than a ballhog who can't win anything.

Why the hate? Durant have done everything right so far, and is showing everybody that he is going to be better than we thought... You can't expect a young team like that to make the playoffs in the West right away.. but I think they will make the playoffs sooner than we think...

Uh why not? Portland was, I believe, the second youngest team in the league last year behind Golden State and even if I am mixing up my facts, they are still very young and were able to make it in the playoffs. Why can't OKC? This is kind of why I laugh at people claiming Durant is better then Roy NOW. Maybe in the future he will be (most likely), but not now.

Anyway, Durant is better then Oden, but no one can say Portland has messed up yet without at least seeing Oden this year and see what he produces.

Portland is young, but they are build to make the playoffs already. Thunder have alot of potential, and should be in the playoffs soon... but they are still in need of a solid big man

oh and I think Durant is better than Roy right now. I think most of you don't realize just how good Durant is, and how great he can end up being...

[sabi]

They would take Kevin Durant 100 times out of 100. KD's numbers speak for themselves, the people here using OKC's win totals the last two seasons as some kind of evidence that Durant's production does not lead to wins are misguided. Comparing the team to Portland is also ridiculous, since Portland (and Brandon Roy) has a lot more to work with than OKC does. I've broken down the rosters several times in previous threads of this nature and it becomes painfully obvious how bad OKC was aside from KD. The argument that the team was better in the eight game stretch Durant was out is silly as well - they won against mostly weak competition and it's a pretty small sample size to be making any kind of conclusions.

Durant's ability to score efficiently, his potential in other areas that haven't even been realized yet (defense, passing).. you take Durant here if Portland has to make the decision again right now. Oden's a big question mark with a lot of 'ifs'. There's a possibility he might figure it out, but Durant's already top five at his position and will probably be top 3 very soon.

Keep telling yourself this stuff. If you repeat it three times and click your ruby slippers together it just may come true. Just accept the fact that Portland did not need Durant, they need a franchise center, and they got one that was derailed for a year.

For those that say Durant would be Roy's Pippen, that is laughable. Pippen was a lockdown defender, point forward, very good offense 50 greatest players of all time. Which of those accolades does Durant fullfill? Durant can not guard a chair, but gets credit on RealGM as having the "ability" to develop that skill because he is long and quick. Big deal, so Durant can improve his defense but Oden can not improve anything according to RealGM? Thanks, now I get it. RealGM is the land of double standards.

I think the point is that KD is already an elite player at his position, Greg Oden has to change a lot of things about his game and his health to even get to where Durant is currently. Which speaks nothing to the fact that Durant will probably continue to get better. It's not a double standard at all, both players will certainly continue to improve, but Durant obviously has a head start on things with fewer question marks.

Many Blazer fans are describing what Oden has experienced as a temporary set back, but there's no certainty at all that he'll get through his problems and remain healthy. Durant's status as an elite player (at a position of need for the Blazers as well, no less) would make him more appealing to Portland if they had to make the choice again with the knowledge of events up to this point. Would they risk a guaranteed All-Star / Top 3 small forward for today's Greg Oden? I'm not sure they would.

What injuries did Oden suffer last season that would make you worry about his health?

[HMFFL]

The problem is that Durant has underperformed with his team while Oden has over-performed.

I also think you're getting too caught up in a players emotions. Tim Duncan doesn't show emotion on the court but some people love/loved Iverson's attitude a "love" for the game.

Duncan is a winner.
AI is a loser.

Emotion has nothing to do with it.

Greg Oden has over performed? How so?

Kevin Durant already being young has had all the weight on his shoulders and just last year OKC acquired a decent big in Nenad Krstic to take some pressure (I say that lightly) off the frontcourt. Greg Oden on the other hand is playing on a team full of veterans and the pressure he has be dealing with is due to the lack of impact he's made on the court.

Greg will be fine with time and will prove the doubters wrong like I said already.

Tim Duncan shows plenty of emotion on the court. Just becaue he's not beating his chest and crawling on the floor like Kevin Garnett doesn't mean he's not playing with emotion.