RealGM

writerman wrote:

Guy986 wrote:Yes because Oden will never catch up to Durant.

No.

And comparing any small to an elite big is stupid. An elite big gives a team so many more things that no small, however good, can match.

Not saying Oden is an elite big, but unless all the scouts were wrong, barring injury the potential is there. If Oden stays healthy and becomes even an considerably above average big, he's more valuable than Durant or any guard or wing currently playing. So the jury is still out on Oden.

Take Kobe for instance. Hate him, but he's a great player. Still, all other things being equal, if you're a GM and have a choice between building your team around a Kobe prime or a Shaq prime, if you take Kobe you're an idiot. Basketball is a vertical game. Every generation produces a lot of really good wings, though maybe not as good as Kobe, Jordan, Baylor, etc. But a Wilt or a Kareem or a Shaq (when his lazy ass is motivated) come along very infrequently, and are worth more than any Kobe, Jordan, or Baylor.

yet, we're in no way comparing kobe to shaq or anything close to that.

so in this case durant definitely > oden.

Yes. Oden has glass for knees. It doesn't take a few more seasons for anything to confirm that.

Flash3 wrote:

D-31 wrote:You can't say Portland screwed up until Durant makes the playoffs.

Right now Durant is nothing more than a ballhog who can't win anything.

Well coincidentally what is Oden? He wasn't any factor, or much I should say in his team getting there. He's got a great team around him with an even better coach.

Durant's team in OKC is only now coming together.

Portland went from one of the worst defensive teams to one in the top half of the league, and their rebounding numbers skyrockted from the season he sat out.

HMFFL wrote:Kevin Durant has heart and the will to win. Greg Oden lacks both of those and at some point it would be nice to see him have more passion for the game. Give him another couple years and he can possibly prove the doubters wrong. It's not like he's making 12.5 million like Andrew Bynum, so give Greg more time while he's still on his rookie contract.

lol yeah Durant's awesome will to win helped him a lot as he was sitting home watching Oden and Ohio State march through the NCAA tournament. It amazes me how many people would question this kid's heart when all he does in win where ever he has been, and he plays hurt. You don't know Greg Oden, you don't know about his will to win. I wonder why you would sound so absolute when you don't know the person.

Visirale wrote:Yes. Oden has glass for knees. It doesn't take a few more seasons for anything to confirm that.

By your definition of glass knees, I guess that Kidd, Randolph and Amare have glass knees as well. They seem to have played well since having the same surgery Oden had, although Odens surgery was performed on a non-weight bearing area of his knee, and at a far younger age than those other players leading one to believe is ability to heal/recover are far better than an older player. But then you know this and are just a hater or have an agenda like anyone else that posts that Oden has bad knees. Provide a link or some form of proof. The fact that he has had the same surgery that older players have recovered spectacularly from and you insist he has glass knees should highly embarrass you. Of course it won't because you either are a hater or have your agenda.

Oden is old before his time. I mean, just look at him! His real age might be in the twenties but his body age is in the thirties.

Bskey wrote:Lets let Oden play another season or two why don't we.

Technically "Not play" would make more sense considering he's spent more time on the bench or on his couch than on the court.

HMFFL wrote:Kevin Durant has heart and the will to win. Greg Oden lacks both of those and at some point it would be nice to see him have more passion for the game. Give him another couple years and he can possibly prove the doubters wrong. It's not like he's making 12.5 million like Andrew Bynum, so give Greg more time while he's still on his rookie contract.

no offense, but that part I highlighted sure seems like malarkey to me

I mean, just how have you been able to determine the character of those 2 players? It sure hasn't been from results.

Durant's heart and will to win has propelled OKC to a total of 20 wins his first season and 23 his second. 43 wins over two NBA seasons isn't much in the way of positive evidence of heart and will.

Maybe you're going by facial expressions...you're reading "heart" by how they clench their jaws on the sidelines when things aren't going well?

farzi wrote:

Flash3 wrote:

D-31 wrote:You can't say Portland screwed up until Durant makes the playoffs.

Right now Durant is nothing more than a ballhog who can't win anything.

Well coincidentally what is Oden? He wasn't any factor, or much I should say in his team getting there. He's got a great team around him with an even better coach.

Durant's team in OKC is only now coming together.

Portland went from one of the worst defensive teams to one in the top half of the league, and their rebounding numbers skyrockted from the season he sat out.

So, what are you arguing? He sat out (not in game) as you stated, and their numbers went up. OK and?

Flash3 wrote:

Kosta wrote:If they had a chance to redo it, they'd take Durant, so yes, they did in that sense. But Oden could still end up being great, just the odds of him being what he was hyped up to be, has been greatly reduced.

Agreed.

Durant right now (had he progressed and develop the same way) would fill one of their major needs a SF, but then again they'd need a big man.

Aldridge.

Flash3 wrote:

writerman wrote:

Guy986 wrote:Yes because Oden will never catch up to Durant.

No.

And comparing any small to an elite big is stupid. An elite big gives a team so many more things that no small, however good, can match.

Not saying Oden is an elite big, but unless all the scouts were wrong, barring injury the potential is there. If Oden stays healthy and becomes even an considerably above average big, he's more valuable than Durant or any guard or wing currently playing. So the jury is still out on Oden.

Take Kobe for instance. Hate him, but he's a great player. Still, all other things being equal, if you're a GM and have a choice between building your team around a Kobe prime or a Shaq prime, if you take Kobe you're an idiot. Basketball is a vertical game. Every generation produces a lot of really good wings, though maybe not as good as Kobe, Jordan, Baylor, etc. But a Wilt or a Kareem or a Shaq (when his lazy ass is motivated) come along very infrequently, and are worth more than any Kobe, Jordan, or Baylor.

yet, we're in no way comparing kobe to shaq or anything close to that.

so in this case durant definitely > oden.

I love how a player is defined when they are so young.

I would have loved to have said "Look at Durant at 20, and look at this Dwyane Wade guy at 20!! This is stupid, Wade can never be that good!"

It's **** stupid, and everyone just wants to say they were right, when it's far from conclusive.

Part of this debate seems motivated by a belief that Oden has had little positive impact on the Blazers while Durant's impact on OKC has been huge.

Durant's impact on OKC has been such that the team went from a 32 win season to a 20 win season in his first year. And in the following season, supposedly Durant's breakout season, OKC climbed all the way up to 23 wins from 20. A 3 win increase, and still 9 less then before he arrived.

Now, I know it's not all on Durant that OKC still sucked last season, but if he's such a phenomenal talent, with, as one poster put it "heart and the will to win", you'd expect more then a 3 win improvement. Brandon Roy took a 21 win team and led them to successive seasons of 32, 41, and 54 wins. Durant, with the mantle of RealGM greatness newly bestowed, ought to be able in 2 seasons to match what Roy did in 1, but apparently not.

On the other hand, in the know-little world of RealGM, Oden's impact on the Blazers is either ignored or dismissed:

In 2007/08, Portland ranked in the bottom half of the league in every rebounding category. IIRC, they were about 20th in overall rebounding pecentage, and about 18th in defensive rebounding rate and 23rd in offensive rebounding rate.

Contrast that to Oden's first season: Portland led the NBA in both overall rebounding percentage and offensive rebounding percentage. And they were 5th in defensive rebounding rate. Oden was the only roster addition to affect that. Rudy fernandez certainly didn't strengthen Portland's rebounding numbers. This was all due to Oden.

And that is a huge impact to portland's fortunes. To go from a weak rebounding team to the best rebounding team is a simple testament to what Oden will bring to the floor for the Blazers and it's something that is ignored here all the time...like in this thread

NO-KG-AI wrote:
I love how a player is defined when they are so young.

I would have loved to have said "Look at Durant at 20, and look at this Dwyane Wade guy at 20!! This is stupid, Wade can never be that good!"

It's **** stupid, and everyone just wants to say they were right, when it's far from conclusive.

Hey it's ok. I'll give Kwame a few more years to develop.

Flash3 wrote:

farzi wrote:
Portland went from one of the worst defensive teams to one in the top half of the league, and their rebounding numbers skyrockted from the season he sat out.

So, what are you arguing? He sat out (not in game) as you stated, and their numbers went up. OK and?

Why you purposefully being ignorant? He said "from" not "during". Are you trying to make a reputation for yourself?

Flash3 wrote:

NO-KG-AI wrote:
I love how a player is defined when they are so young.

I would have loved to have said "Look at Durant at 20, and look at this Dwyane Wade guy at 20!! This is stupid, Wade can never be that good!"

It's **** stupid, and everyone just wants to say they were right, when it's far from conclusive.

Hey it's ok. I'll give Kwame a few more years to develop.

If Kwame was an elite level prospect, you might have a point, but as it stands, we haven't seen a guy with Oden's talent or better flop, unless it was injury related.

Injured, recovering, out of shape, Rookie Greg Oden was far better than Kwame has ever been.

Make a joke about him looking old, and the circle will be complete.

writerman wrote:

Guy986 wrote:Yes because Oden will never catch up to Durant.

No.

And comparing any small to an elite big is stupid. An elite big gives a team so many more things that no small, however good, can match.

Not saying Oden is an elite big, but unless all the scouts were wrong, barring injury the potential is there. If Oden stays healthy and becomes even an considerably above average big, he's more valuable than Durant or any guard or wing currently playing. So the jury is still out on Oden.

Take Kobe for instance. Hate him, but he's a great player. Still, all other things being equal, if you're a GM and have a choice between building your team around a Kobe prime or a Shaq prime, if you take Kobe you're an idiot. Basketball is a vertical game. Every generation produces a lot of really good wings, though maybe not as good as Kobe, Jordan, Baylor, etc. But a Wilt or a Kareem or a Shaq (when his lazy ass is motivated) come along very infrequently, and are worth more than any Kobe, Jordan, or Baylor.

Except when the small has proven more and shows up on the bigger stages. So using the Kobe vs Shaq example doesn't work when Shaq is more productive and has won as the man and best player in the league multiple times.

A better example would be using Garnett and Kobe.

NO-KG-AI wrote:

Flash3 wrote:

NO-KG-AI wrote:
I love how a player is defined when they are so young.

I would have loved to have said "Look at Durant at 20, and look at this Dwyane Wade guy at 20!! This is stupid, Wade can never be that good!"

It's **** stupid, and everyone just wants to say they were right, when it's far from conclusive.

Hey it's ok. I'll give Kwame a few more years to develop.

If Kwame was an elite level prospect, you might have a point, but as it stands, we haven't seen a guy with Oden's talent or better flop, unless it was injury related.

Injured, recovering, out of shape, Rookie Greg Oden was far better than Kwame has ever been.

Make a joke about him looking old, and the circle will be complete.

Valid points, but with someone with an early injury history into their career, how does it set a precedent of things to come? In his 1st 2 years he hasn't shown to be healthy and play even half a season, let alone get consistent minutes because of conditioning and all related to those injuries. I'd understand had he put 1-2 seasons together and played consistently in those seasons, and then something happened, fine.

But, I'm definitely giving him the benefit of the doubt, as he's EXTREMELY young and at the same time very raw, so he can grow out of these issues. But, as mentioned earlier, at this current time Durant would really supplant this team in more ways than one than Oden and the potential to be on the floor can, IMO.

Oh, Kwame is as old as Greg Oden.

JordansBulls wrote:
A better example would be using Garnett and Kobe.

I'm taking Kobe there. Now Duncan and Kobe, I'll go with Duncan.

The only reason this is even a question is because Oden underwent microfracture knee surgery. Which didn't allow him to rehab and train adequately for his real rookie season.

This question is stated as if Portland knew in advance that Oden would miss his entire rookie season.

Yes it is a stupid question.

Oh yeah Oden accomplished more in his amateur career than Kwame Brown ever will. It's too bad an inury allows them to be put in the same context.

Yes.