Dirk Nowitzki is the most underrated Star in the NBA

[aboveAverage]

Agreed, You can make a good argument that Dirk is a top 5 player in the league this year. Imagine if he still had Steve Nash... Cuban's biggest mistake was letting Nash walk...

[Lakeshow2417]

I think Duncan, Kobe and even lebron have all accomplished more. even wade.

Dallas is 2nd in wins this decade behind spurs. only hte spursd have rings to show for it when you can argue dallas was almost as talented as SA during the early 00's

[667Club]

Dirk is underrated because he is a white euro. If he was black or even better white american it would be different.

[Dirk_diggler_41]

you can argue dallas was almost as talented as SA during the early 00's

No you can't. Dirk and Nash were not in their primes in the early 00s. And Finley was overrated.

[Blame Rasho]

you can argue dallas was almost as talented as SA during the early 00's

No you can't. Dirk and Nash were not in their primes in the early 00s. And Finley was overrated.

Yeah... they were just allstars and not MVP players...

Funny how MAvs fans would always brag that they had more talent than the Spurs and that would be the reason they would win but know they didn't?

There was a revolving door of good players that came in, NVE,Jamison, Howard, Terry, Stackhouse, to accent Dirk, Nash, and Finely.

[Point forward]

Pau has led his country to multiple world titles.

He has exactly one world title, and he missed that Finals due to injury!

[Mavs41]

a Great fact based post, i totally agree.

Dirk had never enough talent around him to win the championschip. There is not one year where you can say dallas was the most talented team in the league or that they should have won the title, not even close. I think it's fair to say that Dirk did a respectable job with what he had in the playoffs.

[Dirk_diggler_41]

you can argue dallas was almost as talented as SA during the early 00's

No you can't. Dirk and Nash were not in their primes in the early 00s. And Finley was overrated.

Yeah... they were just allstars and not MVP players...

Funny how MAvs fans would always brag that they had more talent than the Spurs and that would be the reason they would win but know they didn't?

There was a revolving door of good players that came in, NVE,Jamison, Howard, Terry, Stackhouse, to accent Dirk, Nash, and Finely.

I don't know what you consider the early 00s, but Stackhouse, Terry, and Howard were not on those teams. NVE was way past his prime when he joined the Mavs. The Spurs finished ahead of the Mavs every season, or tied.

The Mavs weren't near the Spurs until 02/03 when Nowitzki was really becoming a star. If it weren't for his leg injury, Dallas might have beaten the Spurs in the WCF.

[inrapscity]

i think there's no way for a player to just be aiight right?

too me, it seems that irrelevant is not good enough. you either have to be overrated or underrated. can't be just right.

dirk is in the category of just right.

[Cthulhu]

lol @ Rasho claiming he's had all-star teammates like Stack, Howard and Terry. Stackhouse was over 30 when he joined the Mavs and an inured, 40% chucker. Howard made the all-star team one time only because someone that was actually elected got hurt. The man is always injured, and now that he doesn't even attack the basket anymore, he's a less efficient 30 year old Stackhouse. Terry, a streaky poor man's Mo Williams. Yeah, some all-star teammates. I'll use that logic, LeBron has a top 10 HOF in Shaq, zomg! If he doesn't sweep the playoffs he's a joke.

[NO-KG-AI]

Yes we get it... everyone doesn't like Dirk as much as you. I know it is shocking in your mind but perhaps there is a reason for that. In the biggest stages he has failed epically. You can sugarcoat it as much as you want but I am pretty sure that TD, KG, Kobe, Lebron and etc would get hanged on the cross if they lead their team to by far the best record in the NBA, win an MVP and then lose in the first round after reaching the finals. You need to deal with this and stop sugarcoating reality.

This.

Dirk has been on teams that are top 1 offensively with massive offensive talent(03-04 team was stacked), he's been on top 5 offenses consistently, and 05 they were top 10 defensively, and 07 when they won 67 they were top 5 defensively and second offensively, and the next year they were 8th offensively and 9th defensively and got pasted by the Hornets.

[Cthulhu]

Yes we get it... everyone doesn't like Dirk as much as you. I know it is shocking in your mind but perhaps there is a reason for that. In the biggest stages he has failed epically. You can sugarcoat it as much as you want but I am pretty sure that TD, KG, Kobe, Lebron and etc would get hanged on the cross if they lead their team to by far the best record in the NBA, win an MVP and then lose in the first round after reaching the finals. You need to deal with this and stop sugarcoating reality.

This.

Dirk has been on teams that are top 1 offensively with massive offensive talent(03-04 team was stacked), he's been on top 5 offenses consistently, and 05 they were top 10 defensively, and 07 when they won 67 they were top 5 defensively and second offensively, and the next year they were 8th offensively and 9th defensively and got pasted by the Hornets.

LMAO, you're serious is the sad part. LOOK at the loss to the Hornets. Howard shot like 28% for the series while Dirk put up 28/10/3. That team had no help, just like this one. The ONLY reason they were 8th offensively is because Dirk is a beast who routinely is in the top 5 for PER, Win Shares & Player Eff.

[Blame Rasho]

lol @ Rasho claiming he's had all-star teammates like Stack, Howard and Terry. Stackhouse was over 30 when he joined the Mavs and an inured, 40% chucker. Howard made the all-star team one time only because someone that was actually elected got hurt. The man is always injured, and now that he doesn't even attack the basket anymore, he's a less efficient 30 year old Stackhouse. Terry, a streaky poor man's Mo Williams. Yeah, some all-star teammates. I'll use that logic, LeBron has a top 10 HOF in Shaq, zomg! If he doesn't sweep the playoffs he's a joke.

I guess someone failed at reading comprehension

No where did I say that Stack,Howard and Terry have been allstar teammates.

[Blame Rasho]

Early is before 05...

Fact is that to say that Dirk didn't have talent around him is just comical.

[Cthulhu]

lol @ Rasho claiming he's had all-star teammates like Stack, Howard and Terry. Stackhouse was over 30 when he joined the Mavs and an inured, 40% chucker. Howard made the all-star team one time only because someone that was actually elected got hurt. The man is always injured, and now that he doesn't even attack the basket anymore, he's a less efficient 30 year old Stackhouse. Terry, a streaky poor man's Mo Williams. Yeah, some all-star teammates. I'll use that logic, LeBron has a top 10 HOF in Shaq, zomg! If he doesn't sweep the playoffs he's a joke.

I guess someone failed at reading comprehension

No where did I say that Stack,Howard and Terry have been allstar teammates?

My apologies. I mixed that up with "There was a revolving door of good players that came in, NVE,Jamison, Howard, Terry, Stackhouse, to accent Dirk, Nash, and Finely." And stating Dirk has had some fictitious amount of "collective talent".

Since Nash left, Dirk's offensive supporting cast has been: Howard, Terry, Stack & a young Harris.

I'm sorry, but if you don't see how bad of offensive help that is, I don't know what to tell you. You don't think Billups, Pau, Bynum, Parker, Gino, Mo Williams, Pierce, Allen, Carter, Shard are better than those guys?

[Blame Rasho]

It is ok... I wouldn't expect anything less, it is clear to all of us that Dirk is a close to a demigod given that he has done so much with so little according to you.

[ronnymac2]

I'm not really a fan of jump-shooting bigs, but I think Dirk is a great player. He's having a fantastic year, too. Right now, he's probably a top 7 player. All-time, I'd rank him on the Ewing/Pippen/Drexler level (that's very high...I'm a fan of those players). Around top 30 ever.

I'm not sure if he's underrated. People know how great he is. Whenever those Webber or Mchale comparisons come up, the posts are overwhelmingly in favor of Dirk. People know he's at least a top 40-ish player all-time, and serious posters know he's currently better than Amare/Gasol/Bosh and is elite amongst all players. His "flaws" generally are just relative to the great company he keeps...his defense isn't as good as other bigs like Ewing, KG, Dwight, or Duncan....his offense isn't as good as Kobe's or Lebron's.

I happen to think he played well in the finals. The 07 series was THE bad series. At least he wasn't destroyed 1 vs. 1 by his matchup on the other team, but he was stopped. That reveals an actual flaw of his....he can't decimate smaller defenders with a post game. Alright, fine. You need certain personnel to give him that matchup though. The W's happened to have it. All that means is that Dirk isn't a constant source of dominant offense in the playoffs like only a handful of players are in history....the most recent ones being Shaq and Tim Duncan. Maybe add Wade, Lebron, and Kobe. Again, he only suffers by comparison.

A couple of things though:

Like I said (maybe it wasn't it this thread, I forget), LeBron was AWFUL in the finals. Worse than Dirk vs. GS, easily. So obviously he isn't a constant source of offensive domination in the playoffs. Wade was rather ineffective in their first round loss to the Bulls a couple years ago. Kobe has had a couple of bad series too. I'm not going to look them up atm, but I'm sure TD and Shaq have as well,. The fact is, NO player is a constant source of domination in the playoffs, including the ones you listed. But as far as career playoff wise, Dirk has been one of THE best playoff performers in NBA history. Like another guy said, that Finals starting 5 was:
Damp, Dirk, Howard, Griffin, Terry. That is an absurdly mediocre lineup. It's a true testament to how good Dirk is to have done that. Griffin was out of the NBA like 2 years later!

As for the defending him with a small guy. In the GS series, Dirk's post game was not as refined, that's true. Though it was still moreso the double teams and swarming defense coupled with his teammates not hitting open shots that led to the loss. But since then, his post game has refined a ton. He will abuse smaller guys in the low post now, so you can't even defend him that way. Every match-up vs. SJax since, he's scored at will on them (36 against the Bobcats most recently). The only thing is, the Mavs make it easy to double Dirk when you've got guys like Antonie Wright & Jerry Stackhouse to Josh Howard and Jet Terry (this year) camping behind the 3-point line. He simply doesn't have players around him that make you pay for double teams. As far as scoring on the low-block though, that's no issue. Most of his 32 PPG in the Denver playoff series last year were on the low-block in fact.

Not to get into this too much, but Lebron wasn't really in his prime yet in 07(has since developed a legit jumper, 3-pointer, became a better ft shooter, learned the game more, has developed a semblance of a post-game), Wade was injured, and Kobe...I'll give you that, although he was facing a truly all-time great defense.

I have seen that Dirk has a better low-post game. That's true. And surely the blame goes to the other Mavs players as well for losing vs. the Warriors. Imo, they should get credit if they win, so they should get blame if they lose- it's a team game. But....

Going into that Mavs-Warriors series, I was thinking that the Mavs were overrated and wouldn't win a title. I thought they'd lose to the Spurs or Suns to be honest. I didn't think they had a dominant defense, and I thought their offense being predicated on Dirk's mismatch wouldn't be enough against those elite teams. When I saw Mavs vs. Warriors and how the Warriors played them well in the reg. season and matched up well against them, I thought of the last 67 win team in the NBA, the 2000 Lakers, and how they faced a team that played well against them, the Sacramento Kings, in the first round (a best of 5 series). My thinking was that Dallas should win the playoff series because they are the better team; plus, it's difficult to upset a team in 7 games as opposed to 5.

Then they lost. They didn't have that constant, which is imo what you need in the playoffs. Your team needs a constant player on offense, or a constant team defense (generally anchored by a big man, but not necessarily), or a superb all-time clutch/big-game player. Dallas was just a good defensive team, but had no dominant defensive big OR small. Their offensive go-to guy at the time could be defended and slowed down. Contrast that with the Lakers in 2000...they were actually very lucky because they had the offensive constant in Shaq, a VERY strong defense anchored by Shaq, and Kobe was starting to become an elite closer. They could go to the well for those types of things and get what they need.

Again, by comparison to all-time greats (and also partially because his team's makeup wasn't that amazing to begin with on both sides of the ball....so Dirk's weaknesses couldn't be covered easily), Dirk loses out. No shame in that. Maybe if you give the 2007 Mavs a 2010 Dirk, he goes into the post, and they beat GSW. I don't know. Maybe he can make up for what happened this year.

[Il_Devo]

Um... the most underrated star in the NBA would actually be Brandon Roy.

Sorry to burst your Dirk Bubble, but it's the truth.

[ronnymac2]

I'm not really a fan of jump-shooting bigs, but I think Dirk is a great player. He's having a fantastic year, too. Right now, he's probably a top 7 player. All-time, I'd rank him on the Ewing/Pippen/Drexler level (that's very high...I'm a fan of those players). Around top 30 ever.

I'm not sure if he's underrated. People know how great he is. Whenever those Webber or Mchale comparisons come up, the posts are overwhelmingly in favor of Dirk. People know he's at least a top 40-ish player all-time, and serious posters know he's currently better than Amare/Gasol/Bosh and is elite amongst all players. His "flaws" generally are just relative to the great company he keeps...his defense isn't as good as other bigs like Ewing, KG, Dwight, or Duncan....his offense isn't as good as Kobe's or Lebron's.

I happen to think he played well in the finals. The 07 series was THE bad series. At least he wasn't destroyed 1 vs. 1 by his matchup on the other team, but he was stopped. That reveals an actual flaw of his....he can't decimate smaller defenders with a post game. Alright, fine. You need certain personnel to give him that matchup though. The W's happened to have it. All that means is that Dirk isn't a constant source of dominant offense in the playoffs like only a handful of players are in history....the most recent ones being Shaq and Tim Duncan. Maybe add Wade, Lebron, and Kobe. Again, he only suffers by comparison.

Let`s see: Playoffs career states :

Duncan: 23,3/12,6
Nowitzki: 25,5/11
Garnett: 21,6/12,4
Kobe: 25,0/5,1 (on 44,7% shooting)

Or last years against Denver:

Dirk had 34,7/12 on 52% shooting.
Kobe had 34,0 points on 48% shooting.

Sure, Nowitzki isn't a constant source of dominant offense in the playoffs like Duncan or Kobe. He only suffers by comparison.

Ugh....passing, style of play, ability to control the ball/handle the ball 94 feet, effect on teammates, offensive rebounding......

[Fobbie]

Not sure how someone can be underrated when they are constantly mention in MVP voting and top 10 in the league.. If anything your making Dirk overrated more lOL. And your claim to say how his team isn't all that great truly fail. Year in and out Dirk's team is one of the deepest and most talented.