Dirk Nowitzki is the most underrated Star in the NBA

[Cthulhu]

Not sure how someone can be underrated when they are constantly mention in MVP voting and top 10 in the league.. If anything your making Dirk overrated more lOL. And your claim to say how his team isn't all that great truly fail. Year in and out Dirk's team is one of the deepest and most talented.

See, you say that, but don't back it up. Please ENLIGHTEN me as to how Dirk's team THIS year (or the last 4 for that matter) are deep and talented. When your 2nd and 3rd options are shooting 40% from the field and 30% from three, how can they be deep and talented? RC only plays 8 guys usually btw.

[leevii]

i dunno about underrated. i think he certainly commands the respect of everybody.

pau is relevant coz he plays with the lakers. i'm pretty sure that nobody says that bosh is better than dirk. mavs have always had a much better record than the raps.

Let me introduce you to Raptor fans: viewtopic.php?f=32&t=976514

[mavfan12]

i think there's no way for a player to just be aiight right?

too me, it seems that irrelevant is not good enough. you either have to be overrated or underrated. can't be just right.

dirk is in the category of just right.

Did you read what you just said?

[inrapscity]

i think there's no way for a player to just be aiight right?

too me, it seems that irrelevant is not good enough. you either have to be overrated or underrated. can't be just right.

dirk is in the category of just right.

Did you read what you just said?

what i meant by the first sentence is that OP isn't happy with Dirk's current status so he calls Dirk underrated. There's no gray area. it's black or white.

what I'm saying is that there should be this gray/middle area.

[druggas]

Let's see, Dirk has always had talent on his team, good coaching, and an owner who has passion for his team.

Dirk has failed to convert those assets into a championship and he has had some huge failures.

Dirk is officially OVERRATED.

Quit nuthuggin' and see it for what it is.

[microfib4thewin]

Dirk's team wasn't heavily talented from 1-5, but in 06 they had one of the best depth for a Finals team. I am not saying guys like Diop or Croshere are super amazing, but they were guys who can contribute every night, and Mavs had 10-12 guys who deserves playing time. Josh Howard was also more focused on attacking the basket and playing spectacular defense, combine that with a younger Terry and Stackhouse the team wasn't as bad as the OP is trying to advertise. By logic they should have won the Finals and not get blown out by Golden State, yet it happened and Dirk played terrible in both series. In the Finals, he shot 35% and was guarded mostly by Haslem, and how well he fared against the small GSW defenders have been repeated ad-nauseam. Then the OP tries to compare Dirk's failures with the other HOF locks, the difference is, the other players lost against better teams who played better defense. The 06 Heat relied very much on veteran savvy to make a smart defensive play, and the 07 Dubs was and is still a no D franchise. Whether Nelson knew Dirk at the back of his hands is irrelevant, when you try to hold Dirk in such a high regard he should respect that regard by not showing such a weakness against smaller defenders at the worst time possible.

You want us to praise him and hold his status high, yet not criticize him when he fails. While the 07 Mavs lost collectively as a team, when Dirk showed so much struggle in nearly every aspect of the game you can't expect the role players to do so well it can make up for lack of production from Dirk. He could have better teams around him, but part of the Mavs shortcomings had to go to him for the reasons stated.

[mavfan12]

i think there's no way for a player to just be aiight right?

too me, it seems that irrelevant is not good enough. you either have to be overrated or underrated. can't be just right.

dirk is in the category of just right.

Did you read what you just said?

what i meant by the first sentence is that OP isn't happy with Dirk's current status so he calls Dirk underrated. There's no gray area. it's black or white.

what I'm saying is that there should be this gray/middle area.

Ahh, I had no idea what you were trying to say with that.

[crucifixx]

To everyone that calls Dirk 'soft'. This is what Kobe has to say:

But the respect for Dirk did extend to the pregame LA locker room, where no less an authority on greatness than Kobe Bryant called Nowitzki “a rare breed.’’

“He's tough," said Bryant. "That's what I like about him. He's not a punk. A lot of superstar players don't like to get touched. They're kind of finicky about how they go about things. Dirk's nasty and that's what I like about him. He'll take the gloves off and go at it. … If you look at some of the games that he's had against great players, it's amazing. I think his coming out party years ago was against Garnett. Garnett is a phenomenal player and Dirk was putting up 35 and 20 rebounds. That's ridiculous. I'm looking at that like, 'Whoa, Garnett's one of the best defensive players ever and he torched him.’’’....


"Hopefully,’’ Kobe concluded, “the fans in Dallas can appreciate what they watch: a 7-footer that can put the ball on the floor, can shoot it from the outside, can post. Dirk's a rare breed, man. A rare breed."

[RapsCA]

I don't watch many Mavs games, but playing beside Jason Kidd doesn't hurt right?

[Dirk_diggler_41]

I don't watch many Mavs games, but playing beside Jason Kidd doesn't hurt right?

Is this going to be a new angle? Let me stop it right away. He had his best seasons statistically without either Nash or Kidd.

[Wade2k6]

Umm, "consecutive playoff failures"? Leading a mediocre team to the NBA Finals is a failure?

The guy is one of the best playoff performers of all-time. He's putting up 26/11 in the playoffs, I think it's only FOUR guys have EVER done that. Among those that haven't: TD, KG, Malone (both of em), MccHale, Webber, DRob, ect.

He had one bad series against a team that was just a nightmare matchup for that Mavs team, and would have been a 4/5 seed had they been healthy/ had Harrington/Jax all year. In that series, Dirk was doubled and tripled, his teammates did NOTHING, his coach was outcoached and he still put up 20/11/3, albeit on a terrible shooting %. And that's the worst.

So that mitigates a 26/11 playoff career, including almost a dozen 30/15 games, a 50 point game, and a 30/11 average in Elimination Games?

Right.

When your team is up 2-0 in the series and you're up 10 points with 6 minutes left in the 4th Q of the 3rd game, your team should win that series. When you have a 67 win team there is no way in hell you should lose to a 8th seed, regardless of whether it is a matchup nightmare or not. He is a great player, and yes I agree he's underrated by many, but he needs to show the ability to win.

[Cthulhu]

Yep, you're right. 32 year old Stackhouse, out of the NBA Croshere and can't get off the Bobcats bench Diop are all studs. Dirk has basically played with 80s Celtics caliber teammates. Who cares if their stats suck. On any given night Josh Howard can score 50 points. Silly me. Lock thread. Lets start a new one, Dirk v. Maurice Taylor.

[Basileus777]

You can certainly blame Dirk for the Miami and GS series, but blaming him for any of the other playoffs failures or over-hyping up his supporting cast is just sophistry. Having a roster that is 12 deep is not especially useful in the playoffs when rotations tighten.

The fact of the matter is that Dirk has never had a legitimate championship caliber #2 option on any of his teams, and if Kobe or LeBron were in similar situations, there would be no lack of excuses. No one seems to have trouble excusing Kobe's playoff failures.

[KINGD]

Because Kobe has 4 NBA championships and has won as the #1 option.

[microfib4thewin]

Yep, you're right. 32 year old Stackhouse, out of the NBA Croshere and can't get off the Bobcats bench Diop are all studs. Dirk has basically played with 80s Celtics caliber teammates. Who cares if their stats suck. On any given night Josh Howard can score 50 points. Silly me. Lock thread. Lets start a new one, Dirk v. Maurice Taylor.

So you resort to exaggeration to make yourself sound correct? Great going.

For all these wah-wahs on how Dirk's team wasn't talented enough and all that, the Dirk apologists have not admitted that Dirk's TEAM is expected to beat the other TEAM. Why would I emphasize the team word? Because as long as the team is better built than its competition it doesn't matter if it's as good as the showtime Lakers or as awful as the 99 Knicks, to not win would be underachieving. If Dirk was putting up an epic performance like Lebron against the Magic only for the team to lose the series for reasons outside his control, that's one thing, but Dirk was a major reason why the Mavs struggled and eventually lose in those two upsets. His team had definitely underperformed, but Dirk wasn't holding his end of the bargain either.

Besides, I can't help but notice no one pointed out what the OP meant by saying Dirk is underrated. Being compared to Webber makes him underrated? While I think his career has been mostly a disappointment Webber at his peak was considered an equal to KG and right behind Duncan. Consider that many would choose Dirk over KG now that he has taken a smaller role in Boston and also have him slightly behind an older Duncan I really fail to see where the underrating is coming from.

[BCT]

Yep, you're right. 32 year old Stackhouse, out of the NBA Croshere and can't get off the Bobcats bench Diop are all studs. Dirk has basically played with 80s Celtics caliber teammates. Who cares if their stats suck. On any given night Josh Howard can score 50 points. Silly me. Lock thread. Lets start a new one, Dirk v. Maurice Taylor.

Let's cut to the meat of the matter here...What the hell do you want from us?

Do you want everyone to agree with you or do you just want to argue?

Nobody really gives a damn about Dirk either way so you are spinning your own wheels man.

If Dirk retired right now the league wouldn't lose any money or miss a beat. Lord forbid we lose the German market.

I don't think anyone here really knows what the hell you are after with this thread.

[jourdy]

Let's cut to the meat of the matter here...What the hell do you want from us?

Do you want everyone to agree with you or do you just want to argue?

Nobody really gives a damn about Dirk either way so you are spinning your own wheels man.

If Dirk retired right now the league wouldn't lose any money or miss a beat. Lord forbid we lose the German market.

I don't think anyone here really knows what the hell you are after with this thread.

I don't necessarily agree with the OP... I think Dirk is rated just fine, maybe even a little overrated. I think OP knows that Dirk is not underrated at all, just in RealGM.

but are you serious with that post? That's probably the stupidest thing posted in RealGM.

This is a forum, is it not?
He was making a discussion and backed it up with facts.

If I say so myself, I think OP provided better posts than half of the ones posted in this thread combined. At least he provided stats and facts. He may not have everything correct, but he knows what he's talking about.

[Sting3r]

i remember back when Dallas was dominating teams, everyone used to envy Dallas for having Cuban as an owner cause he was always willing to spend his money to sign good players around Dirk.

Till this day , he still has amazing talent around him: Kidd, Marion, Howard, Terry, ect...
You can bring up their stats so far this year and claim otherwise but you cant deny that the talent is their.

So its just silly when someone claims Dirk never had any real help when he has always had amazing deep teams.

[JonFromVA]

Dirk is a fantastic player, but it's not just about who has the best #2 player, it's the team and Dirk does have some good teammates.

Anyway, I don't see Dirk getting serious MVP consideration this season unless he can carry the Mavs to the 60-win level. Being 2nd in the West isn't good enough, the Mavs have to be up there with the top teams.

He's always going to be penalized by the fact that he's a 7ft PF who doesn't rebound better, defend better, and protect the paint better.

He's not having a career year stat-wise, and I don't believe he's even top-3 in any single category.

[Mavs41]

So its just silly when someone claims Dirk never had any real help when he has always had amazing deep teams.

i think nobody here is claiming that Dirk never had help or that his teammates were/are garbage. But the facts the OP presented speak for themselves, facts that you can't refute. They show that Dallas is hugely dependent on DIrk (much more than many other teams).

If Kobe were in DIrk shoes he would be ringless as well btw.