TrueHoop: Bosh Wants To Be The Man

[AkelaLoneWolf]

You can say what you want about Bosh coming to Miami, but Wade going to Toronto doesn't make ANY sense.

This is the funniest part about all the 2010 speculation, and the part that makes me wonder if people are just that bitter, or that ignorant. I don't care if you want to argue that Miami only has a 5% chance at Bosh, but that doesn't improve Toronto's chance at Wade. They have NO chance at Wade, pretty much no matter what happens. Its like Raptors fans just want to turn the tables, but they don't realize they can't, they don't have the leverage or the allure.

If Wade wanted to win at all costs, there are at least 10 other teams he could force a sign and trade to that would be better than the Raptors. But beyond that, it'd never happen anyways, because a team would need to have max capspace to give them the leverage needed to force a sign and trade.

Bottom line, Heat fans don't mind if you think we can't get Bosh, that's a perfectly reasonable stance. But when you suggest Wade will go to Toronto, you really start to lose all credibility.

Btw, as it stands, both Miami and Toronto are on pace to make it to the 1st round of the playoffs and get knocked out. I don't see much of a difference in either team's fate.

I think that Wade coming to Toronto is not that likely, but the scenario wouldn't work out as you propose. If Riley refuses a S&T to Toronto(or wherever else) he's already in losing scenario. Wade can resign for the max with Miami and then demand a trade a year into the deal. He could sign with a different team for the max(not likely). Or he could take the MLE(extremely unlikely). Point is that none of these scenarios have a happy outcome for Riley or the Heat. You can't force players' hands in this league. Especially not a superstar's.

[Heat3]

We're talking about options. What options are there to both entice Wade to go to Toronto and get Riley scared enough to cave into a sign and trade? All they have is the MLE. You telling me Wade will jump ship for that? No one in the world would buy that story. That's not going to get Riley shaking in his shoes to trade Wade there.

At the end of the day Riley works for the Heat not for Wade. He has to do what's best for the franchise. You get into a sign and trade game when you don't think you have any other options. The player says if you don't trade me I'm leaving anyway. Do you think after spending years to ensure the Heat have maximum cap space this summer Riley will throw it away just so he gets "something" for Wade?

This is a point I don't think some fans seem to get. If the Heat lose Wade for "nothing" then they have cap space for 2 Max FA. Riley isn't going to throw that away just to get "something" back on principle for Wade. Nothing about how Pat Riley has operated here for the last 15 years tells me he will take back something like Turk or Bargs or whatever players Raptors fans think he'll be forced to take. Guys that don't even fit the mold for a Riley team. Remember he let Zo walk for "nothing" when he left in 2002. His decisions were based on what was best for the team's future not on some misguided principle of having to get something (even if it's garbage) in return for a player.

If Riley were panicked about the situation he would have already made moves to bring in guys for. He said it last summer. If Wade signs then he starts making moves to go all out now. Until then he has to keep options open for the franchise should Wade decide to leave otherwise we'd be stuck with a Hedo here for the next 5 years.

As for Ben Gordon's situation, I don't see how that has any relevance here. He wanted more money and Chicago didn't think he was worth it. Wade will be offered the Max by Miami. Is this even a question?

[Heat3]

You can say what you want about Bosh coming to Miami, but Wade going to Toronto doesn't make ANY sense.

This is the funniest part about all the 2010 speculation, and the part that makes me wonder if people are just that bitter, or that ignorant. I don't care if you want to argue that Miami only has a 5% chance at Bosh, but that doesn't improve Toronto's chance at Wade. They have NO chance at Wade, pretty much no matter what happens. Its like Raptors fans just want to turn the tables, but they don't realize they can't, they don't have the leverage or the allure.

If Wade wanted to win at all costs, there are at least 10 other teams he could force a sign and trade to that would be better than the Raptors. But beyond that, it'd never happen anyways, because a team would need to have max capspace to give them the leverage needed to force a sign and trade.

Bottom line, Heat fans don't mind if you think we can't get Bosh, that's a perfectly reasonable stance. But when you suggest Wade will go to Toronto, you really start to lose all credibility.

Btw, as it stands, both Miami and Toronto are on pace to make it to the 1st round of the playoffs and get knocked out. I don't see much of a difference in either team's fate.

I think that Wade coming to Toronto is not that likely, but the scenario wouldn't work out as you propose. If Riley refuses a S&T to Toronto(or wherever else) he's already in losing scenario. Wade can resign for the max with Miami and then demand a trade a year into the deal. He could sign with a different team for the max(not likely). Or he could take the MLE(extremely unlikely). Point is that none of these scenarios have a happy outcome for Riley or the Heat. You can't force players' hands in this league. Especially not a superstar's.

Once he signs a contract he's obligated to play if he wants to get paid. Otherwise he can retire. Last time I checked Kobe is still in LA. He couldn't force the Lakers into making a worthless trade to make him happy what makes you think Wade or anyone else can?

[KDS91]

Bosh needs to come to Miami, him and Wade look great together in the Olympics and All-Star game...
Arguably the best SG and PF on the same team, it would be the best duo in the league,
I would be dissapointed if he passes up on being on a championship contender for the next 5-7 years.

Or Wade could come to Toronto in a sign and trade and have a better team around him to win a championship. He is from Chicago, where it snows more and it colder then Toronto.

Yeah, but for a Chicago native, Wade often looks miserable when playing in cold places (like New York).

[AkelaLoneWolf]

We're talking about options. What options are there to both entice Wade to go to Toronto and get Riley scared enough to cave into a sign and trade? All they have is the MLE. You telling me Wade will jump ship for that? No one in the world would buy that story. That's not going to get Riley shaking in his shoes to trade Wade there.

At the end of the day Riley works for the Heat not for Wade. He has to do what's best for the franchise. You get into a sign and trade game when you don't think you have any other options. The player says if you don't trade me I'm leaving anyway. Do you think after spending years to ensure the Heat have maximum cap space this summer Riley will throw it away just so he gets "something" for Wade?

This is a point I don't think some fans seem to get. If the Heat lose Wade for "nothing" then they have cap space for 2 Max FA. Riley isn't going to throw that away just to get "something" back on principle for Wade. Nothing about how Pat Riley has operated here for the last 15 years tells me he will take back something like Turk or Bargs or whatever players Raptors fans think he'll be forced to take. Guys that don't even fit the mold for a Riley team. Remember he let Zo walk for "nothing" when he left in 2002. His decisions were based on what was best for the team's future not on some misguided principle of having to get something (even if it's garbage) in return for a player.

If Riley were panicked about the situation he would have already made moves to bring in guys for. He said it last summer. If Wade signs then he starts making moves to go all out now. Until then he has to keep options open for the franchise should Wade decide to leave otherwise we'd be stuck with a Hedo here for the next 5 years.

As for Ben Gordon's situation, I don't see how that has any relevance here. He wanted more money and Chicago didn't think he was worth it. Wade will be offered the Max by Miami. Is this even a question?

I never said Wade will play for the MLE. I'm just saying that players especially of Wade's caliber have tremendous amount of leverage over the teams they play for.
And you're absolutely right. Riley works for the Heat ownership, not for Wade. So he would act in the best interests of the Heat by complying in a sign and trade and receive some asset back as opposed to nothing. Last offseason, Otis Smith refused until the last minute to do a S&T for Turkoglu, but in the end he did because he got something back and he's in charge of a team that can afford to get nothing back and not be damaged by it.
And who's going to come to Miami if they don't have any superstars to play with? Probably Tier B and other players who are looking to get overpaid which doesn't serve Riley's interests.
And I think that Riley's worried. I remember that Wade wasn't too impressed with Riley sitting on his hands last offseason and now they're on the verge of dropping out of playoff contention. If the rumors are right, he's pursuing both Stoudemire and Jamison currently to keep Wade happy. Whether he's panicking or not will be seen by whether he takes on JRich's contract from Phoenix as well.
And my point about Ben Gordon was essentially that they tried to play hardball with him and they failed miserably. He still got what he wanted and the Bulls have nothing to show for it.

[Danchan]

Once he signs a contract he's obligated to play if he wants to get paid. Otherwise he can retire. Last time I checked Kobe is still in LA. He couldn't force the Lakers into making a worthless trade to make him happy what makes you think Wade or anyone else can?

zo says hi!

[Tim_Hardawayy]

Honestly Raptors fans, you can stop rationalizing why you think Wade will go to Toronto. Heat fans are realistic about our chances at Bosh, we realize its somewhere between unlikely and a long shot right now.

Now you can be realistic about Wade to Toronto, which is somewhere between when pigs fly and when hell freezes over.

[USA]

Haven't read the whole thread but any team with Bosh as a first option will never win a championship.

[DG88]

Haven't read the whole thread but any team with Bosh as a first option will never win a championship.

That's an ignorant comment.

[Dr Octagon]

Haven't read the whole thread but any team with Bosh as a first option will never win a championship.

[Chosen01]

Haven't read the whole thread but any team with Bosh as a first option will never wina championship.

[Heat3]

Once he signs a contract he's obligated to play if he wants to get paid. Otherwise he can retire. Last time I checked Kobe is still in LA. He couldn't force the Lakers into making a worthless trade to make him happy what makes you think Wade or anyone else can?

zo says hi!

And? If Zo was medically cleared to play and Toronto or the Nets didn't want to release him then he had to play otherwise he wouldn't get paid. The Nets washed their hands by trading him for Carter. Toronto chose to buy him out just to make the problem go away but they could have forced the issue if they wanted to. The fact that teams regularly cave in doesn't mean they have contractual rights that they can impose. Case in point Ricky Williams. The Dolphins sued him (and won) to repay like $8M when he retired early to avoid a drug suspension.

Although I don't know why some Raptor fans thought he would ever play for Toronto. The whole point of having him in the trade was to match salaries with Carter. It was clear to everyone long before he got traded he wanted a buyout so he could come to Miami. But that's another story from another time

[Parataxis]

We're talking about options. What options are there to both entice Wade to go to Toronto and get Riley scared enough to cave into a sign and trade? All they have is the MLE. You telling me Wade will jump ship for that? No one in the world would buy that story. That's not going to get Riley shaking in his shoes to trade Wade there.

At the end of the day Riley works for the Heat not for Wade. He has to do what's best for the franchise. You get into a sign and trade game when you don't think you have any other options. The player says if you don't trade me I'm leaving anyway. Do you think after spending years to ensure the Heat have maximum cap space this summer Riley will throw it away just so he gets "something" for Wade?

This is a point I don't think some fans seem to get. If the Heat lose Wade for "nothing" then they have cap space for 2 Max FA.

That's the thing about options - there's lots of them. If I'm Riley, and I'm smart, I realise that just having cap space doesn't guarantee that players sign. The players worth the Max are only going to go to a team via a S&T - that way they're not leaving money on the table. If Riley hopes to sign Johnson or Bron, he's going to need to give pieces up (which he doesn't have, so that's off the table).

That leaves the 2nd and 3rd tier free agents. Yeah, he can grab them for max money, but otherwise, if Wade doesnt' sign, how's he going to get them? You think Boozer is goingn to sign to a team with Bustley as its top player? I don't (unless you ridiculously overpay him). That's what the Heat end up with if Wade walks - lots of money and nobody to spend it on.

OTOH, if they S&T Wade, they get SOMETHING back. They get a starter and some prospects, probably. They can fill holes (PG, SF, PF) that Miami currently has. That makes players like Boozer a lot more likely to sign - knowing that they're not the only option on a team.

Yeah the Heat have money, but letting Wade walk for nothing pretty much makes it look like they won't actually be able to spend it.

[Jakay]

Honestly Raptors fans, you can stop rationalizing why you think Wade will go to Toronto. Heat fans are realistic about our chances at Bosh, we realize its somewhere between unlikely and a long shot right now.

Now you can be realistic about Wade to Toronto, which is somewhere between when pigs fly and when hell freezes over.

Quid pro quo.

[Heat3]

We're talking about options. What options are there to both entice Wade to go to Toronto and get Riley scared enough to cave into a sign and trade? All they have is the MLE. You telling me Wade will jump ship for that? No one in the world would buy that story. That's not going to get Riley shaking in his shoes to trade Wade there.

At the end of the day Riley works for the Heat not for Wade. He has to do what's best for the franchise. You get into a sign and trade game when you don't think you have any other options. The player says if you don't trade me I'm leaving anyway. Do you think after spending years to ensure the Heat have maximum cap space this summer Riley will throw it away just so he gets "something" for Wade?

This is a point I don't think some fans seem to get. If the Heat lose Wade for "nothing" then they have cap space for 2 Max FA.

That's the thing about options - there's lots of them. If I'm Riley, and I'm smart, I realise that just having cap space doesn't guarantee that players sign. The players worth the Max are only going to go to a team via a S&T - that way they're not leaving money on the table. If Riley hopes to sign Johnson or Bron, he's going to need to give pieces up (which he doesn't have, so that's off the table).

That leaves the 2nd and 3rd tier free agents. Yeah, he can grab them for max money, but otherwise, if Wade doesnt' sign, how's he going to get them? You think Boozer is goingn to sign to a team with Bustley as its top player? I don't (unless you ridiculously overpay him). That's what the Heat end up with if Wade walks - lots of money and nobody to spend it on.

OTOH, if they S&T Wade, they get SOMETHING back. They get a starter and some prospects, probably. They can fill holes (PG, SF, PF) that Miami currently has. That makes players like Boozer a lot more likely to sign - knowing that they're not the only option on a team.

Yeah the Heat have money, but letting Wade walk for nothing pretty much makes it look like they won't actually be able to spend it.

Miami isn't Milwaukee or Minneapolis where if a FA signs there you know it's for the money. We've never had a problem attracting FA. Prying away a Lebron or Bosh might be a challenge, but 2nd tier guys aren't going to be running away from Miami if Wade is not here. We won't be begging Nate Robinson to play for the Heat for max lol...