Kobe or Drexler

[Tesla]

^Actually, Kobe was a tad more efficent overall in %'s. (Its pretty much a wash though). Kobe was the better FT shooter and 3PT shooter in the 8years of their primes, and the FG% wasn't all that much in Drexler favor if you adjust for era (average FG% in the league etc.).

I think it's close, Drexler is a hell of a player, but I think its also clearly Kobe. Especially when you see that Kobe isn't done yet. Kobe has already had about 4 seasons better than Drexlers best season, statistically, and then relative to era Kobe was better in terms of MVP voting, and league teams. (However, I understand that Drexler's era was more difficult in terms of being voted in in 1st teams, and Defensive teams; however, Kobe would still come out on top of him in that era in those areas imho).

[kooldude]

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?????????????

Drexler went with Portland twice, and lost to the Bad Boys Pistons, and Michael Jordan in his prime Bulls. The 2000's Lakers wouldn't have beaten either of those teams.

He went to Houston and won 2 titles there. Who exactly did Drexler lose to thats worse than Bryant?

yea, because the defensive monster that is Kevin Duckworth is going to stop a prime Shaq.

[farzi]

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yea, because the defensive monster that is Kevin Duckworth is going to stop a prime Shaq.

I meant Zeke's Pistons and Jordan's bulls, but tbh, have you SEEN Duckworth lately? I don't think a prime Shaq could push this guy around NOW

[TonyMontana]

I didn't argue them, I posted them as a follow up to Tesla's post to show what each of them have accomplished.

We're using Mark Price as an excuse for why Drexler at least don't have a lot of 3rd team selections now?

Where did I suggest Kobe would have more 1st teams than Drexler in the same era? I would hope you can show me a quote on that since you accuse me of posting that.

Why are you being so HONEST

[kooldude]

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I meant Zeke's Pistons and Jordan's bulls, but tbh, have you SEEN Duckworth lately? I don't think a prime Shaq could push this guy around NOW

(picture)

why wouldn't the '01 Lakers beat Isiah's Pistons or even Jordan's Bulls?

[TonyMontana]

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I meant Zeke's Pistons and Jordan's bulls, but tbh, have you SEEN Duckworth lately? I don't think a prime Shaq could push this guy around NOW

(picture)

No freakin way , thats not Duckworth .......... Are you serious ?

[farzi]

Yep. Dude's gotten big. He was here for one of the heritage nights and sat in between Cliff Robinson, Drexler, and Terry Porter, and looked like he could any of them whole.

[Jules Winnfield]

This is a joke.

First of all, Kobe Bryant if he played in a different era - such as the Jordan era might have made a number of 1st teams. His actual play would be exceptional in any era. The number of first teams would depend on what team he played on and if he was the number 1 option. To automatically assume that Kobe could not have made 1st team over one of Jordan or Magic is pretty silly. The entire dynamic of a league changes when you have a player of Kobe's ability in it.

Second, Kobe was simply a better player in every single facet of the game. The only shooting guard in NBA history who has a watertight case against Kobe is Jordan. West is really really debatable and after that, it isn't even close.

[Jordan23Forever]

This is a joke.

First of all, Kobe Bryant if he played in a different era - such as the Jordan era might have made a number of 1st teams. His actual play would be exceptional in any era.

Agreed.

The number of first teams would depend on what team he played on and if he was the number 1 option. To automatically assume that Kobe could not have made 1st team over one of Jordan or Magic is pretty silly.

No, it's completely rational. He's never been as good as either of those guys.

Second, Kobe was simply a better player in every single facet of the game. The only shooting guard in NBA history who has a watertight case against Kobe is Jordan. West is really really debatable and after that, it isn't even close.

This is nonsense. I'd take Kobe > Drexler as the better player (though I might take Drexler over Kobe depending on the surrounding pieces), but Drexler was easily a better rebounder and also a better passer. Kobe is a better shooter, scorer, and defender, and his edges in the latter two categories are large enough to more than counter Drexler's edges in rebounding, passing, and team play.

[Jules Winnfield]

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This is nonsense. I'd take Kobe > Drexler as the better player (though I might take Drexler over Kobe depending on the surrounding pieces), but Drexler was easily a better rebounder and also a better passer. Kobe is a better shooter, scorer, and defender, and his edges in the latter two categories are large enough to more than counter Drexler's edges in rebounding, passing, and team play.

Rebounding - conceded.

I think Kobe's a better passer particularly in the post. While the assists don't support Kobe, I'd like to see a points from passes statistic (if one existed). Kobe is also a better passer from the post and out of the double team. I also think Kobe is a better team player. The guy sacrificed his individual game to get 3 rings. What more could you want?

Regarding Magic + Jordan: Doesn't matter that they were better players. It is a faulty assumption that All NBA teams are based on the overall skill level of the players and not depending preferences of the voters. He might not have made any All NBA 1st, but to say that he definitely wouldn't have is flawed. You see what I'm saying? I'm not saying he's better than those two.

[EHL]

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If Bryant comes into the league the same year Drexler does, he is still finishing behind Bird in 84-85, 85-86, 86-87, 87-88, 89-90. That right there is 5 of Bryants first 8 years.

Don't see any reason why Bryant doesn't get more MVP votes than Bird in 1989-90; Bird was nowhere near the same player after he blew his back, and neither were the Celtics, who won a solid (but not spectacular) 52 games that season and got bounced in the first round by the Knicks. Kobe's career averages, even including his 18/19/20 year old seasons, were superior statistically to Bird's 89-90 campaign.

Also, remember that I'm assuming Bryant comes into the league in 83, like Drexler, but at the same age as he did in real life, 18 years old. It's already difficult to tell how Bryant would have evolved and improved in the 80s', but it would be next to impossible to guess how he would have improved if he went to 4 years of college and came into the league at 22. So of course I am conceding that the consensus greats like Bird/Magic/etc. would be better than 18/19/20 year old Kobe. From 21 years old and forward however (86-87 in this hypothetical scenario), Kobe came into his own.

He is behind Magic up untill 90-91, though its debatable. Obviously MJ...

Agree 100% here.

I take Robinson over him, and possibly Hakeem(although I think he is extremely overrated on these boards). I think Malone was a better player than Bryant as well. Shaq regardless of what you think Shaq was, by 93-94 he was a better player than Bryant currently or has ever been. He had arrived.

Right, I agree with you on Shaq, I said 94 onward. Though I consider 06 Kobe in a tie with many versions of 90's Shaq, it wasn't until 2000 that Shaq turned into the Shaq he built his MDE reputation on. Hakeem was better than many of Kobe's best seasons no question, if not all of them. His defense was 2nd to no one in NBA history except maybe Russell/Wilt, and 2nd to nobody in the modern era (not Drob, not Ewing, not Eaton, not anybody). I whole heartily disagree on Karl Malone, as he was never an elite defender except on the ball every now and then, never anchored a D though, and even the prime scoring version of himself is still easily rivaled by Bryant.

I think Bryant is about here, right under these guys. In the same class as Barkley.

Statistically or otherwise, Bryant already rivals Barkely's best career accomplishments.

With Drexler, IT, Stockton about here.

Mullen, Wilkins, etc...Here.

He's already had a superior career, statistically and in terms of accolades to Drexler and IT, and will rival Stockton if he plays another 2-3 prime years. Stockton does get extra points for his longevity, though, as does Malone.

For the record, I think Stockton was a more consistent, and harder worker on the defensive end than Kobe. I think when Kobe turns it on, he is better and has a great impact, but Stockton did it longer, more consistent and worked harder for it too imo. To dismiss him as not being close to Bryant, is either you not watching him, or being a homer.

Well, except Stockton was more "consistent" than any player in history; the sheer amount of games he played in without missing a bit speaks to his incredible physique and work ethic, of which only Malone rivals. However, IMO his impact, while amazingly consistent, was not on Bryant's level defensively, and reality is that he couldn't have been that elite if he played with Malone his entire career without winning one title. That by itself speaks volumes.

[Jordan23Forever]

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I'd like to see a points from passes statistic (if one existed).

Isn't that called "assists"? Unless I'm not understanding what you mean...

Kobe is also a better passer from the post and out of the double team.

Drexler rarely went into the post (to his discredit, considering that he was fairly tall/strong) and didn't see as many double-teams as Kobe, so it's hard to gauge who is/would be the better passer in those specific contexts. But in a general game context, most people who watched Drexler would say that he was a better passer than Kobe; he had great vision, touch, and instincts, and was very unselfish. Kobe is a slightly better playmaker due to the attention he draws, however (and Kobe would be a much better playmaker than Drexler, as Jordan was, if he was more aggressive and didn't stay outside as much, since getting inside or making hard moves draws defenders).

[Tesla]

Jf23: I think Jules means points (FGM+freethrows made counted together) created from passes.

[Jordan23Forever]

Jf23: I think Jules means points (FGM+freethrows made counted together) created from passes.

Yeah, I guess. Thing is, many Kobe fans act like Kobe's the only guy in history to pass players the ball only to watch them get fouled (or worse, bobble it), ruining the potential assist. Heck, I'd even like to see a statistic kept which shows how prevalent it is, since I doubt Kobe's situation is that much worse than anyone else in this regard (teammates getting fouled but not converting). To Kobe fans it may seem worse, but that's because they're fans.

[Tesla]

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Yeah, I guess. Thing is, many Kobe fans act like Kobe's the only guy in history to pass players the ball only to watch them get fouled (or worse, bobble it), ruining the potential assist. Heck, I'd even like to see a statistic kept which shows how prevalent it is, since I doubt Kobe's situation is that much worse than anyone else in this regard (teammates getting fouled but not converting). To Kobe fans it may seem worse, but that's because they're fans. ;)

I agree with the bold.

... The rest is blah

[Jules Winnfield]

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I agree with the bold.

... The rest is blah

I disagree with the entire post. It is easy to label someone a fan and ridicule them because they like a certain player, but assists are poor indicators of passing ability particularly when comparing non-PGs. If assists are his measurement for determining passing ability then points from passes would be even more accurate.

A person can be a great passer even if his teammates don't convert and the assumption is that for the years Kobe has been a team leader, his teammates have not been able to convert their opportunities. I don't think that is a stretch - anyone who watches Lakers games knows Kobe is a fantastic passer.

[Jordan23Forever]

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anyone who watches Lakers games knows Kobe is a fantastic passer.

Kobe is a great passer, Drexler was just better. No shame there.

I have to say that I love when Kobe makes passes and then looks away a half second later, trying to make it seem like it was a no look pass.

[Phil Jackson]

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?????????????

Drexler went with Portland twice, and lost to the Bad Boys Pistons, and Michael Jordan in his prime Bulls. The 2000's Lakers wouldn't have beaten either of those teams.

He went to Houston and won 2 titles there. Who exactly did Drexler lose to thats worse than Bryant?

The Lakers would beat those teams.

[farzi]

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The Lakers would beat those teams.

I'm sure you're unbiased in that. Especially with your overwhelming amount of evidence. Especially with Kobe bryant being your avatar, and your user name being Phil Jackson. Right.

[hermes]

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Kobe is a great passer, Drexler was just better. No shame there.

I have to say that I love when Kobe makes passes and then looks away a half second later, trying to make it seem like it was a no look pass.