RealGM

Doctor MJ wrote:

parsnips33 wrote:

Peregrine01 wrote:
That's not on Vogel. This whole team was constructed based on Vibes Based Offense. KD, Booker and Beal are the poster-children for "how deep is your bag" and "we don't do double teams in the off-season". It's not a coincidence that they're on the same team together.

I mean I don't see why he shouldn't take at least some of the responsibility. He's been a head coach for a decade now, this is not rookie Steve Nash who has no clout and has to defer

Right but while Vogel should be "The Man" based on his coaching resume, we know this isn't the situation. If Vogel says "Either KD goes, or I do!", Vogel will get escorted by security out of the building...and everyone involved - coach & player - knows this.

Now, maybe Vogel can come up with something for the offense and get the proper buy in, but frankly that's not what he was hired to do. Ownership's expectation in making the moves they made was that the offense should be automatically elite and so you should hire a defensive coach.

It all makes total sense except that a collection of individual scorers may not actually lead to great team offense, and the defensive coach doesn't actually have the power to make these players grind on defense.

There's also the matter of these same problems showing up with the last big-three of iso-scorers KD was involved in. Vogel is a mixed bag as a coach(and I think Monty is better in a vacuum), but he's not the common denominator here.

Defensive coaching also only goes so far when the players in question lack the physical capability(some of that is age). Over-the-hill Nurkic is not going to anchor a good playoff defense with average personell. This team's prospects hinge on being capable of all-time offense, and thus far, they are not that. A large part of that is fit. Contrary to common perception, volume scoring, even with capable jump-shooters, does suffer diminishing returns when there are multiple players whose games are predominantly tied to high volume scoring.

Spoelstra is just coaching circles around Mazzulla.

Colbinii wrote:Spoelstra is just coaching circles around Mazzulla.

The Heat under Spo are just insane. Is there any other team currently where it is so obvious that the coach is the MVP? That being said, the Heat shot the ball out of their mind. That's not sustainable, so we'll see if this game was more than just lightning in a bottle.

Also happy for OKC to come out and have a very convincing win with their top 3 all playing great basketball. Credit to SGA for having a good game even as his ‘normal’ game isn't quite working (yet) (better in the second half, though). I'm curious to see how he adapts throughout the playoffs. Chet and J-Dub are ridiculous for a Rookie and Sophomore.

Colbinii wrote:Spoelstra is just coaching circles around Mazzulla.

If Jimmy was playing how would you like the Heat's chances?

ardee wrote:

Colbinii wrote:Spoelstra is just coaching circles around Mazzulla.

If Jimmy was playing how would you like the Heat's chances?

I think he adds more variance but hard to say they play better last night with Jimmy.

The-Power wrote:The Heat under Spo are just insane. Is there any other team currently where it is so obvious that the coach is the MVP?

I am so glad my little Mavs caught Spo in 2011. Because he is so so good. Hands down best coach in the league.

If Hali returns to MVP contention form the Pacers are set up so well after the Siakam trade.

I think Celtics just lay the smackdown on the road in games 3 and 4, obviously they're winning in 6 games at most but being 2-2 with Butler less Heat team would be ominous for future rounds. The Raptors split with Orlando in 2019 and then went on the road and took care of them in 5 games, they need to do the same.

Dr Positivity wrote:The Raptors split with Orlando in 2019 and then went on the road and took care of them in 5 games, they need to do the same.

The D.J. Augustin game with Jonathan Isaac coming out party. Fun times.

We finally killed the "6th man of the year goes to highest PPG player automatically"

It's pretty clear Miami won't be able to sustain this offensive output but games like this are still why I'm still having my doubts about the Celtics as a title favorite. They went behind and just kind of lost. Feels like it's hot take analysis but am I crazy for thinking they struggle way too much when the going gets tough?

Dutchball97 wrote:It's pretty clear Miami won't be able to sustain this offensive output but games like this are still why I'm still having my doubts about the Celtics as a title favorite. They went behind and just kind of lost. Feels like it's hot take analysis but am I crazy for thinking they struggle way too much when the going gets tough?

Boston's entire strategy is running different sets to get open looks at 3, then when they don't get the looks they either find Porzingis in the post when he is matched-up against a smaller player or goes to the Tatum/Brown isolation.

It's a very simple offense--little movement, no offensive maestro and reliance on Tatum/Brown/White to initiate the sets and get the ball to the winning match-up within the flow of an offense.

Miami put physical and aggressive wings on Porzingis which completely befuddled him and took away a large part of Boston's counters within their offensive game plan.

You have to think Boston can fix this issue in some capacity, and when they do, expect Miami to go to some elaborate twist on a Zone, to confuse Boston and get them out of their comfort zone for Game 3. And once again, maybe the most important part in all of this, is Bam Adebayo is amongst the top Non-MVP big man in the NBA Playoffs and dominating on both ends of the court.

Dr Positivity wrote:We finally killed the "6th man of the year goes to highest PPG player automatically"

Is the spirit that much different? All the candidates are very much score-first, defensively-challenged players (not that I disagree with their selection).

ardee wrote:

Colbinii wrote:Spoelstra is just coaching circles around Mazzulla.

If Jimmy was playing how would you like the Heat's chances?

Thats the Celtics nightmare.jimmy would scream and bark and two jays would fold as usual.coupled with "coach" mazzullas concepts it would be upset with record pace.zero trust in this group when the going gets tough.

Dr Positivity wrote:We finally killed the "6th man of the year goes to highest PPG player automatically"

Yeah they added a denotation for if you started a popular towel which shows up at WWE then you get 3 PPG added to your total.

Fadeaway_J wrote:

Dr Positivity wrote:We finally killed the "6th man of the year goes to highest PPG player automatically"

Is the spirit that much different? All the candidates are very much score-first, defensively-challenged players (not that I disagree with their selection).

They could revert the next time someone puts up a legit 18ppg+ low efficiency season instead of the candidates the last two years, but the stat about Monk leading in total points the last 2 seasons and not winning either of them is surprising for their usual taste (Powell led in PPG in 23 in 60 GP, still doesn't feel like he would've won if he played 70 to me).

Healthy Isaac could've been a legitimate defensive-oriented 6moy candidate. Not sure how much recognition he would've received but definitely would've been deserving of a shot

jalengreen wrote:Healthy Isaac could've been a legitimate defensive-oriented 6moy candidate. Not sure how much recognition he would've received but definitely would've been deserving of a shot

Yeah he was in the running for per-minute DPOY.

I'm wondering if the decline of PG play has led to the rise in C dominance. Jokic breakthrough year has him avoid the last 3 PGs that eliminated him(Chris Paul, Damian Lillard, Stephen Curry). Gobert is going through a run where he doesn't have to face those guys either and his playoff narrative might shift because of it

LeBron is old, Gilgeous-Alexander and Doncic are really wings and thus slower, Mitchell, Irving, Murray, Booker and Edwards are SGs, there really isn't a lot of dynamic athletic Hall of Famer decision making on the basketball court these playoffs.

Statlanta wrote:I'm wondering if the decline of PG play has led to the rise in C dominance. Jokic breakthrough year has him avoid the last 3 PGs that eliminated him(Chris Paul, Damian Lillard, Stephen Curry). Gobert is going through a run where he doesn't have to face those guys either and his playoff narrative might shift because of it

LeBron is old, Gilgeous-Alexander and Doncic are really wings and thus slower, Mitchell, Irving, Murray, Booker and Edwards are SGs, there really isn't a lot of dynamic athletic Hall of Famer decision making on the basketball court these playoffs.

And then added to this to help Nuggets is that Murray skillset now stands out more than it would have 10 years ago I think

Statlanta wrote:I'm wondering if the decline of PG play has led to the rise in C dominance. Jokic breakthrough year has him avoid the last 3 PGs that eliminated him(Chris Paul, Damian Lillard, Stephen Curry). Gobert is going through a run where he doesn't have to face those guys either and his playoff narrative might shift because of it

LeBron is old, Gilgeous-Alexander and Doncic are really wings and thus slower, Mitchell, Irving, Murray, Booker and Edwards are SGs, there really isn't a lot of dynamic athletic Hall of Famer decision making on the basketball court these playoffs.

Jokic beat Lillard's Blazers in 2021 without Murray.