VW = ? (Rookie Season Thread)

[Cavsfansince84]

Talent wise Victor and Kareem aren’t close, Victor is the most fluid player we’ve ever seen at that size it’s absurd

That size is something only a handful of players have ever been. Kareem wasn't that far off though in terms of size and fluidity. He also had a very functional range out to about 15 ft. Hard to say there is much of a talent gap when Kareem has a pretty solid case as the greatest of all time. Probably the best sustained off/def prime of all time.

[PooledSilver]

Talent wise Victor and Kareem aren’t close, Victor is the most fluid player we’ve ever seen at that size it’s absurd

That size is something only a handful of players have ever been. Kareem wasn't that far off though in terms of size and fluidity. He also had a very functional range out to about 15 ft. Hard to say there is much of a talent gap when Kareem has a pretty solid case as the greatest of all time. Probably the best sustained off/def prime of all time.

Nah the fluidity is completely different. Kareem was a fluid athlete for his size and more explosive probably though.

Wemby is 7ft3.5 barefoot, Kareem 7ft1.85, but that’s after he grew a bit in the league, wemby probably has longer arms too, the height difference isn’t huge but it’s like the gap between KD and Kareem (who had to specifically request to be 6ft11 instead of 7.05 lmao)

alot of players drafted younger grow a bit in the league anyway so the without shoes with one and done rules with shoes arguments have always rung a bit hollow at times

[Cavsfansince84]

Nah the fluidity is completely different. Kareem was a fluid athlete for his size and more explosive probably though.

Wemby is 7ft3.5 barefoot, Kareem 7ft1.85, but that’s after he grew a bit in the league, wemby probably has longer arms too, the height difference isn’t huge but it’s like the gap between KD and Kareem (who had to specifically request to be 6ft11 instead of 7.05 lmao)

alot of players drafted younger grow a bit in the league anyway so the without shoes with one and done rules with shoes arguments have always rung a bit hollow at times

Rather not bring KD into this at all because I don't trust any of heights he is given. Having said that though, 70-73 Kareem is a lot different from late 70's Kareem who is a lot different from 80's Kareem in how he moved. Then on top of that in 1970 Kareem was already 22 compared to 19/20 for Victor and quickness is basically the first thing that goes as guys get older. Comparing 30 year old Victor to 30 year old Kareem would be more valid.

[PooledSilver]

Nah the fluidity is completely different. Kareem was a fluid athlete for his size and more explosive probably though.

Wemby is 7ft3.5 barefoot, Kareem 7ft1.85, but that’s after he grew a bit in the league, wemby probably has longer arms too, the height difference isn’t huge but it’s like the gap between KD and Kareem (who had to specifically request to be 6ft11 instead of 7.05 lmao)

alot of players drafted younger grow a bit in the league anyway so the without shoes with one and done rules with shoes arguments have always rung a bit hollow at times

Rather not bring KD into this at all because I don't trust any of heights he is given. Having said that though, 70-73 Kareem is a lot different from late 70's Kareem who is a lot different from 80's Kareem in how he moved. Then on top of that in 1970 Kareem was already 22 compared to 19/20 for Victor and quickness is basically the first thing that goes as guys get older. Comparing 30 year old Victor to 30 year old Kareem would be more valid.

Kareem was a very fluid and quick athlete for his size but Victors fluidity is in a complete different stratosphere at his size

Fluidity is different from the ability to utilize it

KD is 100% 7ft.05 I’ve seen him measured in camp awhile ago

[tsherkin]

Kareem was a very fluid and quick athlete for his size but Victors fluidity is in a complete different stratosphere at his size

Fluidity is different from the ability to utilize it

KD is 100% 7ft.05 I’ve seen him measured in camp awhile ago

I'm not sure I agree about Kareem's fluidity, having watched a bunch of him in Milwaukee.

I think it's hard to evaluate because there was so much less emphasis on him moving with a live dribble, so we never really got to see any of that. If you watch how he moves as a Buck, or hell, even when filming with Bruce Lee, I find it difficult to really give much of an edge to Victor athletically. There's an era-related skill gap which allows Victor to be more dynamic when he has the ball though, that much is clear.

[PooledSilver]

Kareem was a very fluid and quick athlete for his size but Victors fluidity is in a complete different stratosphere at his size

Fluidity is different from the ability to utilize it

KD is 100% 7ft.05 I’ve seen him measured in camp awhile ago

I'm not sure I agree about Kareem's fluidity, having watched a bunch of him in Milwaukee.

I think it's hard to evaluate because there was so much less emphasis on him moving with a live dribble, so we never really got to see any of that. If you watch how he moves as a Buck, or hell, even when filming with Bruce Lee, I find it difficult to really give much of an edge to Victor athletically. There's an era-related skill gap which allows Victor to be more dynamic when he has the ball though, that much is clear.

I’ve seen a lot of old film too, I agree Kareem’s fluidity at his size was insane but Victors raw fluidity is on a different level. One was so fluid it’s hard to believe ones so fluid you can’t believe it.

Kareem was more polished and used it better

[tsherkin]

I’ve seen a lot of old film too, I agree Kareem’s fluidity at his size was insane but Victors raw fluidity is on a different level. One was so fluid it’s hard to believe ones so fluid you can’t believe it.

I think we'll call that one agree to disagree. Usage and training matter a lot to how things look, and Kareem was basically told to run block to block and then iso post. He had a little high post action at times, faced up some when he was younger, but as he aged, that's what he was doing mostly, so it presents a certain aesthetic. When guys these days have been trying to be guards already the entire time they've been playing basketball, it changes things, even if someone like KAJ had the athletic potential to be the same.

But anyway, Victor is special at his size, this much we can agree on.

[Cavsfansince84]

Kareem was a very fluid and quick athlete for his size but Victors fluidity is in a complete different stratosphere at his size

Fluidity is different from the ability to utilize it

KD is 100% 7ft.05 I’ve seen him measured in camp awhile ago

Still wouldn't bet $20 that KD is 7' barefoot. I'd agree that Victor is extremely fluid also but not that any gap he has over a young Kareem means he is more talented quite yet much less much more talented.

[PooledSilver]

Kareem was a very fluid and quick athlete for his size but Victors fluidity is in a complete different stratosphere at his size

Fluidity is different from the ability to utilize it

KD is 100% 7ft.05 I’ve seen him measured in camp awhile ago

Still wouldn't bet $20 that KD is 7' barefoot. I'd agree that Victor is extremely fluid also but not that any gap he has over a young Kareem means he is more talented quite yet much less much more talented.

Im fine to agree to disagree on the second point

KD is 7.05 unless the tape was off though, I know for a fact he asked to be below 7 when the measurements came out, this different when KD asks vs draymond

[PooledSilver]

I’ve seen a lot of old film too, I agree Kareem’s fluidity at his size was insane but Victors raw fluidity is on a different level. One was so fluid it’s hard to believe ones so fluid you can’t believe it.

I think we'll call that one agree to disagree. Usage and training matter a lot to how things look, and Kareem was basically told to run block to block and then iso post. He had a little high post action at times, faced up some when he was younger, but as he aged, that's what he was doing mostly, so it presents a certain aesthetic. When guys these days have been trying to be guards already the entire time they've been playing basketball, it changes things, even if someone like KAJ had the athletic potential to be the same.

But anyway, Victor is special at his size, this much we can agree on.

Agree to disagree, but I get where you are coming from!

[SNPA]

Talent wise Victor and Kareem aren’t close, Victor is the most fluid player we’ve ever seen at that size it’s absurd

That size is something only a handful of players have ever been. Kareem wasn't that far off though in terms of size and fluidity. He also had a very functional range out to about 15 ft. Hard to say there is much of a talent gap when Kareem has a pretty solid case as the greatest of all time. Probably the best sustained off/def prime of all time.

Nah the fluidity is completely different. Kareem was a fluid athlete for his size and more explosive probably though.

Wemby is 7ft3.5 barefoot, Kareem 7ft1.85, but that’s after he grew a bit in the league, wemby probably has longer arms too, the height difference isn’t huge but it’s like the gap between KD and Kareem (who had to specifically request to be 6ft11 instead of 7.05 lmao)

alot of players drafted younger grow a bit in the league anyway so the without shoes with one and done rules with shoes arguments have always rung a bit hollow at times

Where are you getting the 7’3.5’’ number from?

[PooledSilver]

That size is something only a handful of players have ever been. Kareem wasn't that far off though in terms of size and fluidity. He also had a very functional range out to about 15 ft. Hard to say there is much of a talent gap when Kareem has a pretty solid case as the greatest of all time. Probably the best sustained off/def prime of all time.

Nah the fluidity is completely different. Kareem was a fluid athlete for his size and more explosive probably though.

Wemby is 7ft3.5 barefoot, Kareem 7ft1.85, but that’s after he grew a bit in the league, wemby probably has longer arms too, the height difference isn’t huge but it’s like the gap between KD and Kareem (who had to specifically request to be 6ft11 instead of 7.05 lmao)

alot of players drafted younger grow a bit in the league anyway so the without shoes with one and done rules with shoes arguments have always rung a bit hollow at times

Where are you getting the 7’3.5’’ number from?

Uhhh google

[tsherkin]

I’ve seen a lot of old film too, I agree Kareem’s fluidity at his size was insane but Victors raw fluidity is on a different level. One was so fluid it’s hard to believe ones so fluid you can’t believe it.

I think we'll call that one agree to disagree. Usage and training matter a lot to how things look, and Kareem was basically told to run block to block and then iso post. He had a little high post action at times, faced up some when he was younger, but as he aged, that's what he was doing mostly, so it presents a certain aesthetic. When guys these days have been trying to be guards already the entire time they've been playing basketball, it changes things, even if someone like KAJ had the athletic potential to be the same.

But anyway, Victor is special at his size, this much we can agree on.

Agree to disagree, but I get where you are coming from!

Likewise. Cheers for the talk

[SNPA]

Nah the fluidity is completely different. Kareem was a fluid athlete for his size and more explosive probably though.

Wemby is 7ft3.5 barefoot, Kareem 7ft1.85, but that’s after he grew a bit in the league, wemby probably has longer arms too, the height difference isn’t huge but it’s like the gap between KD and Kareem (who had to specifically request to be 6ft11 instead of 7.05 lmao)

alot of players drafted younger grow a bit in the league anyway so the without shoes with one and done rules with shoes arguments have always rung a bit hollow at times

Where are you getting the 7’3.5’’ number from?

Uhhh google

Hoping for a more specific source.

He is clearly taller than that.

[capfan33]

Wemby really is like the modern bionic upgrade of Kareem, but I don't think Kareem was far off Wemby when taking era and playstyle into account. Also, the one thing Kareem will have over Wemby until Wemby can prove himself, is durability. Which is by far the most important physical attribute one can have.

[PooledSilver]

Where are you getting the 7’3.5’’ number from?

Uhhh google

Hoping for a more specific source.

He is clearly taller than that.

San Antonio express and or nba.com and various other official team and league news after his introductory press conference? He’s 100% been measured at 7ft 3.5 barefoot that’s indisputable

Maybe he grew post playing like I said cuz he’s young

[SNPA]

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[Colbinii]

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The guy who hates Gobert and choked him out thinks he shouldn't win DPOY?

No ****.

Gobert also has better rim deterrent numbers for the year than Wemby. Maybe if February/March Wemby played in October-January he would have more of a case.

[SNPA]

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The guy who hates Gobert and choked him out thinks he shouldn't win DPOY?

No ****.

Little to bait’ish.

I like how it seems he doesn’t know screen assists are tracked. (I know he does)

[SNPA]

“Let him win it now because after that it’s no longer his turn.”
https://theathletic.com/5379251/2024/03/30/victor-wembanyama-spurs-defensive-player-of-year/

Love his mindset.

There’s a strong case he should win. The Spurs record makes it tough though. He is a stocks monster.