Re: 2023-24 NBA Season Discussion
Posted: Sat May 4, 2024 4:59 pm
The Clippers need to put together an amazing regular season and then face a play-in jobber in Rd 1 while Kawhi rests.
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Dr Positivity wrote:The Clippers need to put together an amazing regular season and then face a play-in jobber in Rd 1 while Kawhi rests.
eminence wrote:That tech was lame.
70sFan wrote:It's a huge win for the Wolves. I'm sure Nuggets will start to find holes in this incredible defense sooner or later, but the question is if they'll have enough time. I know it sounds tautological, but early wins for the Wolves are critical to win the series.
Dutchball97 wrote:Jokic might be the best player in the league but he's not some superhuman, which is just about what is necessary to get this Denver team past the Timberwolves imo. Denver lost their 6th and 7th man from their title run and simply didn't get any replacements at all. Reggie Jackson and Peyton Watson could barely be called rotation players last year and are being asked to do quite a bit now and it's not because they've suddenly made big jumps.
Then you've got KCP having an atrocious go off it on the offensive end so far this post-season, Gordon always makes himself useful but he can't seem to hit a shot outside the paint to save his life at the moment, while Murray somehow manages to consistently provide no value untill the second half. At least MPJ is popping off I guess.
As to the Timberwolves I'm well past the beginning to believe stage, at this point I don't know who is going to stop them from getting that ring. Anthony Edwards is a certified superstar in the play-offs, Gobert is far and away the best defensive player in the league, KAT is an absolutely unfair 3rd option and the only team who even comes close to their depth are the Celtics. If Denver turns this around or the Timberwolves burn out in the conference finals feel free to clown me but I honestly think this train won't stop before the finish line.
falcolombardi wrote:Dutchball97 wrote:Jokic might be the best player in the league but he's not some superhuman, which is just about what is necessary to get this Denver team past the Timberwolves imo. Denver lost their 6th and 7th man from their title run and simply didn't get any replacements at all. Reggie Jackson and Peyton Watson could barely be called rotation players last year and are being asked to do quite a bit now and it's not because they've suddenly made big jumps.
Then you've got KCP having an atrocious go off it on the offensive end so far this post-season, Gordon always makes himself useful but he can't seem to hit a shot outside the paint to save his life at the moment, while Murray somehow manages to consistently provide no value untill the second half. At least MPJ is popping off I guess.
As to the Timberwolves I'm well past the beginning to believe stage, at this point I don't know who is going to stop them from getting that ring. Anthony Edwards is a certified superstar in the play-offs, Gobert is far and away the best defensive player in the league, KAT is an absolutely unfair 3rd option and the only team who even comes close to their depth are the Celtics. If Denver turns this around or the Timberwolves burn out in the conference finals feel free to clown me but I honestly think this train won't stop before the finish line.
Not trying to be petty here but this is a wildly lower than the (admittedly unfair often) standard best in the world players usually get held to
Having a worse bench and maybe slightly worse starters is usually not accepted as a excuse for the top 1 player losing to the ...top 10? Player in the playoffs no matter what for the past 15 years
Like coming into the plauyoffs nobody argued towns/mcdaniels/ old ass conley were a way better trio than gordon/mpj/kcp and naz reid wouldnt usually be considered a unfair team difference
Hell, with previous top players (and yes i mostly mean lebron if it was not obvious) murray or gordon struggles woukd automatically get put on the top player fault
For all the talk of jokic as a goat tier contender this is a unusually lax standard to demand from him
Ambrose wrote:falcolombardi wrote:Dutchball97 wrote:Jokic might be the best player in the league but he's not some superhuman, which is just about what is necessary to get this Denver team past the Timberwolves imo. Denver lost their 6th and 7th man from their title run and simply didn't get any replacements at all. Reggie Jackson and Peyton Watson could barely be called rotation players last year and are being asked to do quite a bit now and it's not because they've suddenly made big jumps.
Then you've got KCP having an atrocious go off it on the offensive end so far this post-season, Gordon always makes himself useful but he can't seem to hit a shot outside the paint to save his life at the moment, while Murray somehow manages to consistently provide no value untill the second half. At least MPJ is popping off I guess.
As to the Timberwolves I'm well past the beginning to believe stage, at this point I don't know who is going to stop them from getting that ring. Anthony Edwards is a certified superstar in the play-offs, Gobert is far and away the best defensive player in the league, KAT is an absolutely unfair 3rd option and the only team who even comes close to their depth are the Celtics. If Denver turns this around or the Timberwolves burn out in the conference finals feel free to clown me but I honestly think this train won't stop before the finish line.
Not trying to be petty here but this is a wildly lower than the (admittedly unfair often) standard best in the world players usually get held to
Having a worse bench and maybe slightly worse starters is usually not accepted as a excuse for the top 1 player losing to the ...top 10? Player in the playoffs no matter what for the past 15 years
Like coming into the plauyoffs nobody argued towns/mcdaniels/ old ass conley were a way better trio than gordon/mpj/kcp and naz reid wouldnt usually be considered a unfair team difference
Hell, with previous top players (and yes i mostly mean lebron if it was not obvious) murray or gordon struggles woukd automatically get put on the top player fault
For all the talk of jokic as a goat tier contender this is a unusually lax standard to demand from him
You're basically saying we should see more people discredit Jokic, the clear #1 player in the world, because past casual fans were stupid? Not a great sell.
falcolombardi wrote:Ambrose wrote:falcolombardi wrote:
Not trying to be petty here but this is a wildly lower than the (admittedly unfair often) standard best in the world players usually get held to
Having a worse bench and maybe slightly worse starters is usually not accepted as a excuse for the top 1 player losing to the ...top 10? Player in the playoffs no matter what for the past 15 years
Like coming into the plauyoffs nobody argued towns/mcdaniels/ old ass conley were a way better trio than gordon/mpj/kcp and naz reid wouldnt usually be considered a unfair team difference
Hell, with previous top players (and yes i mostly mean lebron if it was not obvious) murray or gordon struggles woukd automatically get put on the top player fault
For all the talk of jokic as a goat tier contender this is a unusually lax standard to demand from him
You're basically saying we should see more people discredit Jokic, the clear #1 player in the world, because past casual fans were stupid? Not a great sell.
No, i am wondering why jokic is getting goat level talk without the same level of scrutiny players in that tier get and why that may be
falcolombardi wrote:Dutchball97 wrote:Jokic might be the best player in the league but he's not some superhuman, which is just about what is necessary to get this Denver team past the Timberwolves imo. Denver lost their 6th and 7th man from their title run and simply didn't get any replacements at all. Reggie Jackson and Peyton Watson could barely be called rotation players last year and are being asked to do quite a bit now and it's not because they've suddenly made big jumps.
Then you've got KCP having an atrocious go off it on the offensive end so far this post-season, Gordon always makes himself useful but he can't seem to hit a shot outside the paint to save his life at the moment, while Murray somehow manages to consistently provide no value untill the second half. At least MPJ is popping off I guess.
As to the Timberwolves I'm well past the beginning to believe stage, at this point I don't know who is going to stop them from getting that ring. Anthony Edwards is a certified superstar in the play-offs, Gobert is far and away the best defensive player in the league, KAT is an absolutely unfair 3rd option and the only team who even comes close to their depth are the Celtics. If Denver turns this around or the Timberwolves burn out in the conference finals feel free to clown me but I honestly think this train won't stop before the finish line.
Not trying to be petty here but this is a wildly lower than the (admittedly unfair often) standard best in the world players usually get held to
Having a worse bench and maybe slightly worse starters is usually not accepted as a excuse for the top 1 player losing to the ...top 10? Player in the playoffs no matter what for the past 15 years
Like coming into the plauyoffs nobody argued towns/mcdaniels/ old ass conley were a way better trio than gordon/mpj/kcp and naz reid wouldnt usually be considered a unfair team difference
Hell, with previous top players (and yes i mostly mean lebron if it was not obvious) murray or gordon struggles woukd automatically get put on the top player fault
For all the talk of jokic as a goat tier contender this is a unusually lax standard to demand from him
Dutchball97 wrote:falcolombardi wrote:Dutchball97 wrote:Jokic might be the best player in the league but he's not some superhuman, which is just about what is necessary to get this Denver team past the Timberwolves imo. Denver lost their 6th and 7th man from their title run and simply didn't get any replacements at all. Reggie Jackson and Peyton Watson could barely be called rotation players last year and are being asked to do quite a bit now and it's not because they've suddenly made big jumps.
Then you've got KCP having an atrocious go off it on the offensive end so far this post-season, Gordon always makes himself useful but he can't seem to hit a shot outside the paint to save his life at the moment, while Murray somehow manages to consistently provide no value untill the second half. At least MPJ is popping off I guess.
As to the Timberwolves I'm well past the beginning to believe stage, at this point I don't know who is going to stop them from getting that ring. Anthony Edwards is a certified superstar in the play-offs, Gobert is far and away the best defensive player in the league, KAT is an absolutely unfair 3rd option and the only team who even comes close to their depth are the Celtics. If Denver turns this around or the Timberwolves burn out in the conference finals feel free to clown me but I honestly think this train won't stop before the finish line.
Not trying to be petty here but this is a wildly lower than the (admittedly unfair often) standard best in the world players usually get held to
Having a worse bench and maybe slightly worse starters is usually not accepted as a excuse for the top 1 player losing to the ...top 10? Player in the playoffs no matter what for the past 15 years
Like coming into the plauyoffs nobody argued towns/mcdaniels/ old ass conley were a way better trio than gordon/mpj/kcp and naz reid wouldnt usually be considered a unfair team difference
Hell, with previous top players (and yes i mostly mean lebron if it was not obvious) murray or gordon struggles woukd automatically get put on the top player fault
For all the talk of jokic as a goat tier contender this is a unusually lax standard to demand from him
A good bench is underrated imo and people are overlooking just how dreadfully lackluster Denver's bench. Even then I'm mostly putting this on Murray, Gordan and KCP not performing like what is expected of them. Sure Jokic didn't have his best game but even if he did would it have mattered, I'm not sure.
I personally don't think I blame GOAT tier players for losing to significantly more stacked teams. I don't hold it against Wilt he didn't beat the Celtics when he was on the Warriors, I don't blame Kareem for losing to the Blazers in 1977, I don't blame Jordan for not getting past the Pistons in the late 80s and I don't blame LeBron for not beating the superteam Celtics in 2008 and 2010, or for losing to the Spurs in 2014 and especially not against the 2017 and 2018 Warriors.
To be clear I do put scrutiny on LeBron for 2011 but that's because he lost with a better supporting cast. 2009 and 2015 are arguable in my eyes whether LeBron deserves to be blamed for those losses and even if he does it's not entirely his fault at the very least.
I also don't view Jokic on a GOAT trajectory, more like top 10, maybe that plays a role in how harsh I'd be too.