2023-24 NBA Season Discussion

[AEnigma]

Minnesota is one of the teams I would have entertained prior to this series but at 2-2 it feels pretty clear which team has benefitted more from its non-primary options. And while Finch may become a better coach than Malone with time, at this moment he certainly is not, nor is his staff anywhere near as notably excellent.

[LukaTheGOAT]

Edwards doing this to them is a direct consequence of what a -EV paint protector Jokic is for his position among other things tbh

That still doesn't disprove my point that Edwards has an easier matchup. Matchups will lead to impact fluctuating as statlanta spoke about. Not sure if I said it here or just other sports talks venues, but the Wolves are Jokic's worse matchup and thus I did expect his usual impact to be subdued. On the flipside, Edwards has no one on the perimeter who can check him and a weak rim-protector, so what he can do is amplified.

If Jokic gets passed the Wolves, it's free-sailing from here on out.

That's fine. Still doesn't disprove the fact that Edwards is having a better 2-way series right now and that Jokic's sub-par paint protection is a big reason why.

No one brought up Jokic vs Edwards but you. All I suggested was Jokic ain't getting rolled over.

[Doctor MJ]

Minnesota is one of the teams I would have entertained prior to this series but at 2-2 it feels pretty clear which team has benefitted more from its non-primary options. And while Finch may become a better coach than Malone with time, at this moment he certainly is not, nor is his staff anywhere near as notably excellent.

I would just note that Finch is actually older than Malone. While Malone has been directly involved in the NBA longer, Finch is a 54 year old man who first became a pro head coach 27 years ago, and he's just about the furthest thing from a n00b.

None of this means he's as good as Malone of course, nor does it mean his players are as good as Malone's.

[AEnigma]

Minnesota is one of the teams I would have entertained prior to this series but at 2-2 it feels pretty clear which team has benefitted more from its non-primary options. And while Finch may become a better coach than Malone with time, at this moment he certainly is not, nor is his staff anywhere near as notably excellent.

I would just note that Finch is actually older than Malone. While Malone has been directly involved in the NBA longer, Finch is a 54 year old man who first became a pro head coach 27 years ago, and he's just about the furthest thing from a n00b.

None of this means he's as good as Malone of course, nor does it mean his players are as good as Malone's.

Sure, those are fair reasons to conclude he will not become a better coach, but I have no idea what would qualify as “peak” ages for a coach, and not all coaches develop at consistent rates. Back when the Wolves were hiring Fitch, maybe there was valid reason to prefer Fitch. In ten years, maybe there will be valid reason again.

[Heej]

That still doesn't disprove my point that Edwards has an easier matchup. Matchups will lead to impact fluctuating as statlanta spoke about. Not sure if I said it here or just other sports talks venues, but the Wolves are Jokic's worse matchup and thus I did expect his usual impact to be subdued. On the flipside, Edwards has no one on the perimeter who can check him and a weak rim-protector, so what he can do is amplified.

If Jokic gets passed the Wolves, it's free-sailing from here on out.

That's fine. Still doesn't disprove the fact that Edwards is having a better 2-way series right now and that Jokic's sub-par paint protection is a big reason why.

No one brought up Jokic vs Edwards but you. All I suggested was Jokic ain't getting rolled over.

I never said Jokic was getting rolled over. Is this a case of you arguing just to argue?

[Heej]

Malone is a top 5 coach in the league with the best offensive assistant coach in the league in David Adelman; and their closing lineup is extremely well constructed with 2-way players that obscure Jokic's defensive shortcomings. The projection in the last part of your sentence is funny to me.

Not looking to argue, nor support the language used against you in the post preceding this one, but one thing that's interesting:

Minny's coach used to be an assistant in Denver, and I've talked to Nuggets fans who very much believed that Finch was smarter than Malone when he was there and wish they'd fire Malone for Finch.

Me personally, I think both of these stars have some pretty great infrastructure around them. I chafe at the fit between KAT & Gobert, but what's undeniable is that both are all-star level talents now working in a broader ecosystem that's functioned very well all year.

The Nuggets have been one of the top tier organizations in the league for about a decade plus now imo. They've invested heavily in their coaching staff for years now so I'm not surprised at the impressive slate of assistants they've developed over the years tbh. Also, please forgive my skepticism regarding that particular take. Spurs fans were saying similar things about Budenholzer and Popovich a decade ago when they were ready for Pop to hang it up after the 2015 upset, and were mad Atlanta got him. We saw how that turned out.

And imo being smart isn't enough. I actually think Darvin Ham was a great game planner and had a really good playbook to draw from. Hell, the way Minny defends Jokic postups is lifted directly from the Lakers' gameplan with high doubles and bump overs+X outs on the weakside. however, coaching is honestly more about being able to connect with your players and managing emotions intra-game and intra-season. Especially for a head coach because there's so many good assistants in the league now
and world class consultant services available for Xs and Os concepts.

I agree Minny has a good supporting cast around Ant. OKC is another one that I think is strongly in contention for best cast and coaching. That's the reality of what it takes in today's league. Teams are exploiting every market inefficiency available, especially in the coaching and analytics side and players are damn near required to have baseline competencies in all aspects of basketball if they want to be finals level closers.

[Special_Puppy]

Deleted because the language was too harsh

[Special_Puppy]

Deleted

[LukaTheGOAT]

That's fine. Still doesn't disprove the fact that Edwards is having a better 2-way series right now and that Jokic's sub-par paint protection is a big reason why.

No one brought up Jokic vs Edwards but you. All I suggested was Jokic ain't getting rolled over.

I never said Jokic was getting rolled over. Is this a case of you arguing just to argue?

I know what you've been spouting on Discord, and I know that isn't true.

[Heej]

No one brought up Jokic vs Edwards but you. All I suggested was Jokic ain't getting rolled over.

I never said Jokic was getting rolled over. Is this a case of you arguing just to argue?

I know what you've been spouting on Discord, and I know that isn't true.

Post the screenshots. That's a ridiculous take for you to think I have that Ant is obliterating this guy who's clearly still dominating .

The most disparaging thing I said was: "Remember when the nuggets fans tried to pretend they didn't have an amazing supporting cast cuz they lost 2 games". Arguing just to argue, take the kneepads off lil bro. You must be confusing me with someone else.

[Special_Puppy]

My language was too disrespectful and I apologize.
-I think Ant has outplayed Jokic this series
-I don't think Jokic's supporting cast is top 10 in the league
-I think Malone has a decent case for being a top 4 coach in the league
-I don't think there's a credible case for Jokic having the best combo of supporting cast and coaching. If you actually believe that and simultaneously believe that Jokic is the BITW then you should be buying Denver to win the title like right now.

[TheGOATRises007]

My language was too disrespectful and I apologize.
-I think Ant has outplayed Jokic this series
-I don't think Jokic's supporting cast is top 10 in the league
-I think Malone has a decent case for being a top 4 coach in the league
-I don't think there's a credible case for Jokic having the best combo of supporting cast and coaching. If you actually believe that and simultaneously believe that Jokic is the BITW then you should be buying Denver to win the title like right now.

Which 10 do you think are better?

I'm well aware of Jokic's +- in the RS.

Pretty sure his supporting cast levels up in the playoffs though and Jokic's +- isn't as 'dominant' as it is in the RS.

[AEnigma]

I do not see much of a case for any remaining team’s coach over Malone, and the only coach I would take over him on any team is Spoelstra. I also do not see the point in reducing this to head coach rankings when Denver’s biggest relative coaching advantage is from Adelman.

In general the lack of comparison makes this an unproductive exercise. I suppose it is now typical for people to pretend casts are weak right up until they see that cast win a postseason game without its superstar, but the rest of us can look at how the players themselves are performing. When you treat the postseason as too small sample to ever be indicative of anything, as if basically any result that deviates from regular season indicators may as well be a product of random chance, yeah, it could be confusing to see Denver outperform their SRS while the rest of the teams (save possibly Dallas) seem to fade. But Denver was an easy enough title pick before the postseason started, and while Minnesota briefly called that into question, now Denver is right back at it — in large part because their entire team of players and coaches is more reliable in the postseason than Minnesota’s is.

[clearlynotjesse]

Luka the only player to get better on defense when he's hurt

[LukaTheGOAT]

I never said Jokic was getting rolled over. Is this a case of you arguing just to argue?

I know what you've been spouting on Discord, and I know that isn't true.

Post the screenshots. That's a ridiculous take for you to think I have that Ant is obliterating this guy who's clearly still dominating .

The most disparaging thing I said was: "Remember when the nuggets fans tried to pretend they didn't have an amazing supporting cast cuz they lost 2 games". Arguing just to argue, take the kneepads off lil bro. You must be confusing me with someone else.

I mean if you will just shrug off whatever I share as pure analysis, why bother.

Also didnt you get ousted/temporary suspended from the GB because you got mad about glowingly they talked about Jokic? Seems you definitely have some kind of emotional attachment, which would suggest you are closer to getting on your knees in this analogy then anyone else, but please correct me if I am misremembering.

[TheGOATRises007]

Luka has been awful on offense for his standards and the Mavs are still winning.

[bigboi]

SGA is clearly better than Luka

[GSP]

SGA is clearly better than Luka

Yeah its hard to argue. Sga has by far been best player of the series.

Were finally seeing a bad playoff series from Luka too. Seems like hes always gone off in playoffs but Lu Dort has completely shut him down. Outside of the 1st quarter of game 2 Luka hasnt had any success scoring on him.

[AEnigma]

He is certainly better than injured Luka.

[cpower]

My language was too disrespectful and I apologize.
-I think Ant has outplayed Jokic this series
-I don't think Jokic's supporting cast is top 10 in the league
-I think Malone has a decent case for being a top 4 coach in the league
-I don't think there's a credible case for Jokic having the best combo of supporting cast and coaching. If you actually believe that and simultaneously believe that Jokic is the BITW then you should be buying Denver to win the title like right now.

thats crazy. he finally had a defensive squad and Murray as 2nd option is probably the best in the league.