A.Randolph vs M.Beasley

[NDaATL]

Also, I watch 40+ Jazz games a year and players have no problem shooting over Milsap.

Yet Boozer, Amare, Bosh, Jefferson, etc who all have 9+' standing reaches get dominated much worse. Length is not the key to being an effective PF defender.

Your statement is extremely generic and literally, proves nothing. Oh "they have no problem shooting over him" quite simply, just doesn't have merit and no basis.

Because the fact is that most players are "shot over" quite easily. The key to defense is not being able to reach your hands a measly 2 inches higher to challenge the ball, it's footwork, strength, knowledge, and desire. Getting a "hand in the face" is the key to challenging shots, and the tallest player in the NBA is 7'6". Beasley may never be a shot blocker, and he may never be a great defender, but saying that he CAN'T be an effective defender based on his 2" difference in reach is simply, ignorant. Reach is much more important for blocking shots, not playing defense.

[oaktownwarriors87]

Also, I watch 40+ Jazz games a year and players have no problem shooting over Milsap.

Yet Boozer, Amare, Bosh, Jefferson, etc who all have 9+' standing reaches get dominated much worse. Length is not the key to being an effective PF defender.

Your statement is extremely generic and literally, proves nothing. Oh "they have no problem shooting over him" quite simply, just doesn't have merit and no basis.

Because the fact is that most players are "shot over" quite easily. The key to defense is not being able to reach your hands a measly 2 inches higher to challenge the ball, it's footwork, strength, knowledge, and desire. Getting a "hand in the face" is the key to challenging shots, and the tallest player in the NBA is 7'6". Beasley may never be a shot blocker, and he may never be a great defender, but saying that he CAN'T be an effective defender based on his 2" difference in reach is simply, ignorant. Reach is much more important for blocking shots, not playing defense.

Reach is VERY important when it comes to defense. Bosh, Amare, Boozer all have smaller reaches compared to other star PF and they all still have longer reaches than Beasley... and those guys still have problems.

I had to defend two guy that were bigger than me last night. One could shot the ball and the other was just power. The one that could shoot loved that I was on him, the guy that was just power hated it because I got good positioning. Guess what, almost every NBA power forward can drain it within 15 feet almost very time if he has the shot. Having a guy thats a few inches smaller, that gives you the shot...

[NDaATL]

Also, I watch 40+ Jazz games a year and players have no problem shooting over Milsap.

Yet Boozer, Amare, Bosh, Jefferson, etc who all have 9+' standing reaches get dominated much worse. Length is not the key to being an effective PF defender.

Your statement is extremely generic and literally, proves nothing. Oh "they have no problem shooting over him" quite simply, just doesn't have merit and no basis.

Because the fact is that most players are "shot over" quite easily. The key to defense is not being able to reach your hands a measly 2 inches higher to challenge the ball, it's footwork, strength, knowledge, and desire. Getting a "hand in the face" is the key to challenging shots, and the tallest player in the NBA is 7'6". Beasley may never be a shot blocker, and he may never be a great defender, but saying that he CAN'T be an effective defender based on his 2" difference in reach is simply, ignorant. Reach is much more important for blocking shots, not playing defense.

Reach is VERY important when it comes to defense. Bosh, Amare, Boozer all have smaller reaches compared to other star PF and they all still have longer reaches than Beasley... and those guys still have problems.

Reach is a factor. The problem is that it is only one factor. All of the other factors I mentioned above are more important when talking about only a 2" difference in standing reach.

[oaktownwarriors87]

Reach is a factor. The problem is that it is only one factor. All of the other factors I mentioned above are more important when talking about only a 2" difference in standing reach.

When you are talking about two it is a very big deal, but not the end of the world. Than you start talking about 3, 4 and even 5+. All of the sudden it's armageddon.

[yehyeh82]

The fact is Randolph is not weak. Just because other tall skinny guys, like pothead Keon Clark, struggled with their strength doesn't mean every tall, skinny guy will be the same. Just look at KG. He is definitely skinnier than most guys at his position but I would say he is one of the strongest players in the league. Is this because of bulk in the legs? No, it's a wiry strength that he has, and Randolph also possesses this wiry strength. To just spout off assumptions as fact because one year ago, before he began pro-level strength training, he weighed in at 197 is just asinine. It's just arguing for arguments sake. And its not like the 13 lbs everyone is arguing over is a big deal. He either has a natural strength or he doesn't, adding a few pounds isn't going to change that.

[princeofpalace]

Also, I watch 40+ Jazz games a year and players have no problem shooting over Milsap.

Yet Boozer, Amare, Bosh, Jefferson, etc who all have 9+' standing reaches get dominated much worse. Length is not the key to being an effective PF defender.

Your statement is extremely generic and literally, proves nothing. Oh "they have no problem shooting over him" quite simply, just doesn't have merit and no basis.

Because the fact is that most players are "shot over" quite easily. The key to defense is not being able to reach your hands a measly 2 inches higher to challenge the ball, it's footwork, strength, knowledge, and desire. Getting a "hand in the face" is the key to challenging shots, and the tallest player in the NBA is 7'6". Beasley may never be a shot blocker, and he may never be a great defender, but saying that he CAN'T be an effective defender based on his 2" difference in reach is simply, ignorant. Reach is much more important for blocking shots, not playing defense.

Reach is VERY important when it comes to defense. Bosh, Amare, Boozer all have smaller reaches compared to other star PF and they all still have longer reaches than Beasley... and those guys still have problems.

Here is how Beasley compares to other PFs regarding wingspan + standing reach

Wingspan
Bosh: 7'4''
Jefferson: 7'3''
Amare: 7'2''
Boozer: 7'2''
Horford: 7'1''
Beasley: 7'0''
Josh Smith: 7'0''

Standing Reach
Jefferson: 9'2''
Bosh: 9'2''
Amare: 9'1''
Boozer 9'1''
Beasley 8'11''
Horford: 8'11''
Josh Smith: 8'11

Horford and Smith are the best defenders on that list despite the fact that they are basically on par with Beasley in regards to wingspan + reach. Effort, foot work, body positioning are more important in becoming a good defender than just wingspan and length. Beasley can be a very good defender if he commits to it.

[NDaATL]

The fact is Randolph is not weak. Just because other tall skinny guys, like pothead Keon Clark, struggled with their strength doesn't mean every tall, skinny guy will be the same. Just look at KG. He is definitely skinnier than most guys at his position but I would say he is one of the strongest players in the league. Is this because of bulk in the legs? No, it's a wiry strength that he has, and Randolph also possesses this wiry strength. To just spout off assumptions as fact because one year ago, before he began pro-level strength training, he weighed in at 197 is just asinine. It's just arguing for arguments sake. And its not like the 13 lbs everyone is arguing over is a big deal. He either has a natural strength or he doesn't, adding a few pounds isn't going to change that.

KG was also an inch taller, was 20 lbs heavier, had a higher reach, and entered the league a year younger than Randolph. He also played a lot of SF in his early years. He's also at least 240 at this point in time, and he's one of the exceptions that skinny guys can play D. But, he rarely scores inside unless it's an open layup/dunk and is pretty much a jump shooter because of this. And he's 40 pounds heavier than AR.

[oaktownwarriors87]

Here is how Beasley compares to other PFs regarding wingspan + standing reach

Wingspan
Bosh: 7'4''
Jefferson: 7'3''
Amare: 7'2''
Boozer: 7'2''
Horford: 7'1''
Beasley: 7'0''
Josh Smith: 7'0''

Standing Reach
Jefferson: 9'2''
Bosh: 9'2''
Amare: 9'1''
Boozer 9'1''
Beasley 8'11''
Horford: 8'11''
Josh Smith: 8'11

Horford and Smith are the best defenders on that list despite the fact that they are basically on par with Beasley in regards to wingspan + reach. Effort, foot work, body positioning are more important in becoming a good defender than just wingspan and length. Beasley can be a very good defender if he commits to it.

He does have a great wingspan, but 's 6'7 without shoes so he has a poor standing reach. You just showed two starters, one that's more of a SF, that have the same reach. Look at all the greats in the NBA right now and they are bigger than Beasley... all of them. Even the "small" ones that are great are still 2 inches bigger (Boozer, Stodamire etc.).

If you lack in one area, such as Beasley, you need to make up for it in others, Like Ben Wallace. Beasley is not doing that... at least not yet.

[BlaZeN27]

Beasley was 19 when his height and reach was measured. Whats to say he hasn't or won't grow any? Dorell Wright grew 2 or 3 inches from age 18 to age 21. You GSW fan's act as if its a given that Randolph will put on weight, which it most definitely is not.

Al Horford, Josh Smith, Kevin Love, David Lee, Paul Millsap... All of them have an 8'11 standing reach or shorter. Those are all VERY good players, I'm not sure what the Warriors fan who called them marginal was talking about. To me it seems like weight is more important when your standing reach is around 8'11. Beasley weighed in at 239 pounds at age 19, so the same thing applies to him as it does with AR when it comes to putting weight on. Michael was just over 6'8 with shoes before his rookie season started, so lets say he grows anywhere from a half inch to a whole inch before next season starts in which he will still only be 20 years of age. And then he puts on 10 pounds, which according to GSW fan's is really easy. That means Michael Beasley will be 6'9, 250... Yeah he's way to small to play power forward effectively.

Yeah, a first tier that gets his inside shots blocked and shot over.

I'll be the first to admit that he struggled early on at getting his shot blocked when finishing in traffic. It was a huge worry of mine actually, but in the past 20-30 games it has been completely different. He barely ever gets his shots blocked anywhere and has learned to finish a lot better. He had to get adjusted to the length an athleticism of NBA bigs. It should be quite obvious to anyone who has seen Beasley play lately that he no longer struggles with that.

[oaktownwarriors87]

Beasley was 19 when his height and reach was measured. Whats to say he hasn't or won't grow any? Dorell Wright grew 2 or 3 inches from age 18 to age 21. You GSW fan's act as if its a given that Randolph will put on weight, which it most definitely is not.

Al Horford, Josh Smith, Kevin Love, David Lee, Paul Millsap... All of them have an 8'11 standing reach or shorter. Those are all VERY good players, I'm not sure what the Warriors fan who called them marginal was talking about. To me it seems like weight is more important when your standing reach is around 8'11. Beasley weighed in at 239 pounds at age 19, so the same thing applies to him as it does with AR when it comes to putting weight on. Michael was just over 6'8 with shoes before his rookie season started, so lets say he grows anywhere from a half inch to a whole inch before next season starts in which he will still only be 20 years of age. And then he puts on 10 pounds, which according to GSW fan's is really easy. That means Michael Beasley will be 6'9, 250... Yeah he's way to small to play power forward effectively.

Yeah, if he grows

We aren't saying he will be a bad player, just a liability on defense... just like those players you listed are. He needs to step it up, and he's only a rookie so who knows.

[some_rand]

KG ... entered the league a year younger than Randolph.

false

[BlaZeN27]

Yeah, just like "if" AR is able to put on more then 10 or 15 pounds.

What the hell? Since when are those players I listed known as liability's on defense? This is getting ridiculous. 2 or 3 of them are actually defensive standouts, and all of them are really good rebounders. Now take a look at all of there skills and compare them to Beasley's. Michael has the skill set of no other for someone his size. You can afford to be a little short when you have great strength, amazing hands, and the quickness of a perimeter player.

You say he needs to step it up shows just how much you actually know about Beasley or how little you follow him. Have you not seen him play in the pat 5-7 games?

[princeofpalace]

Here is how Beasley compares to other PFs regarding wingspan + standing reach

Wingspan
Bosh: 7'4''
Jefferson: 7'3''
Amare: 7'2''
Boozer: 7'2''
Horford: 7'1''
Beasley: 7'0''
Josh Smith: 7'0''

Standing Reach
Jefferson: 9'2''
Bosh: 9'2''
Amare: 9'1''
Boozer 9'1''
Beasley 8'11''
Horford: 8'11''
Josh Smith: 8'11

Horford and Smith are the best defenders on that list despite the fact that they are basically on par with Beasley in regards to wingspan + reach. Effort, foot work, body positioning are more important in becoming a good defender than just wingspan and length. Beasley can be a very good defender if he commits to it.

He does have a great wingspan, but 's 6'7 without shoes so he has a poor standing reach. You just showed two starters, one that's more of a SF, that have the same reach. Look at all the greats in the NBA right now and they are bigger than Beasley... all of them. Even the "small" ones that are great are still 2 inches bigger (Boozer, Stodamire etc.).

If you lack in one area, such as Beasley, you need to make up for it in others, Like Ben Wallace. Beasley is not doing that... at least not yet.

Horford is a very good defensive player despite playing C instead of PF, his height or lack therof is not making him a liability. He is very sound defensively.

Josh Smith is also a PF; and he is the Hawks defensive anchor

Now, the great defensive PF- Duncan and KG are basically the only guys yeah they are bigger and have more length but the majority of PF don't even attempt to play defense so their standing reach, wingspan really do not help or hinder them. If Beasley makes an effort on defense he can be a good defender just like Smith and Horford are good defenders. Now, if Jefferson, Amare, Boozer, Bosh etc actually commited to defense then sure Boozer would be overmatched but those guys have yet to make any effort or strides on the defensive end.

Beasleys lack of height is not any more of a detriment to his ability to play defense than Randolph's lack of body strength.

[BBallFreak]

They measure people before the draft. Beasley was 6'7 without shoes and 6'8.25 with. He also has a standing reach which I'm pretty sure is smaller than just about any starting PF in the NBA... I'm yet to be proven worng.

Prove to me that Randolph weighs 210 pounds.

Go to look at Warriors roster on the homepage. Unless you have reason to believe Randolph can't gain a little over ten pounds almost a year later.

Go to the Miami Heat homepage. They list Beasley at 6'9". My point has been proven.

[oaktownwarriors87]

You are using guys that are at best, ok defender and others who are poor. If Beasley works hard, IF, he could be ok.

And I will bet Randolph puts on weight over Beasley growing... thats got to be like 1500-1 on the odds.

Randolph on the other hand is not weak, and he has all the tools to become a great NBA defender.

[oaktownwarriors87]

They list Beasley at 6'9". My point has been proven.

They always use height with shoes rounded up. 6'7 without, 6'8.25 with, 6'9 on the player card.

I'm pretty sure they don't put rocks in the pockets of the players hough...

[Tim_Hardawayy]

The New York Knicks website lists Eddy Curry at 285 pounds.

http://www.nba.com/knicks/roster/



Yeah, they never lie about weight on team websites.

[NO-KG-AI]

Can you give us 1 starting PF that weighs 197 lbs. Oh, and don't use the "put on weight" arguement b/c I can easily say the same about Beasleys reach. He can still be growing. He was born in '89 like Randolph.

If you look at him from the begining of the year and now he's bigger, 210+

You sit there and hope Beasley grows and I will hope Randolph puts on weight.

Give me a break, Randolph did not gain 13+ pounds since he was drafted, it doesn't even look like he gained 5 plus pounds.

Beasley isn't going to grow, that is fairly rare I'd say, but Randolph doesn't have the type of frame KG has, so it's stupid to keep bringing up Garnett who was 6'11 and 217 pounds straight out of high school, and Randolph who was 6'9 and 197 with a year of LSU weight training(we put out some big boys...). Randolph would be lucky if his frame can hold as much weight as Bosh at 230, Garnett has played as high as 255, Randolph will never carry that type of weight with any semblance of his athleticism.

Garnett was an all defensive caliber defender at 230-240 at the SF spot, he played at that weight with more athleticism and quickness than Randolph has now, who is about as athletic and quick as the 245-250, the full time PF.

Seriously, Randolph is a great athlete, hustles his ass off, he's long as hell, he's a great prospect, but KG isn't the norm for how skinny 3/4 prospects progress, he added a ton of weight over his career and retained his athletic ability.

[oaktownwarriors87]

KG put on 20 pounds in one off-season, why can't Randolph put on 13?

And Randolph came in at 6'9 without shoes, 6'10.25 with... so by Beasley standards he's 6'11.... not 6'9.

They have him listed as 6'10 or 6'11... 197, 205, 210 and even 220. One thing is for sure, he has the body to play PF.

[NO-KG-AI]

When did KG put on 20 pounds in one offseason?

I was using his listing without shoes in comparison to KG.

He'll be strong enough to PLAY PF, but being able to guard someone, and being able to establish strong position are two entirely different things.

I think both guys have a lot of their talent wasted if you pigeonhole them into one position.

I like big lineups personally, and I'd try to get both of them in at SF if I could, but that's just me.