2023-24 NBA Season Discussion

[ShaqAttac]

y'all better hope we dont come back 3-0

[rk2023]

What team is KD on next season?

[Colbinii]

What team is KD on next season?

Phoenix.

What team is Booker on?

Beal is the hardest to peg. I think it's easier than people may think to move Beal, even with his NTC. Beal is making like $160 Million over the next 3 years. I'd wager he wants to play where he is wanted and where he can put up shots.

Detroit is an interesting team for either Booker or Beal, though may not be on Beal's radar.

I think the Lakers are an interesting Beal team.

Milwaukee could somehow be interesting...salaries not working here.

Chicago as a LaVine replacement.

[Doctor MJ]

It's really sad seeing the Suns burn through a generation of young players that could have been loved by the city for a long time for just a few years of relevance.

Over all those years of sucking, they got:

2019-20: Good in the Bubble
2020-21: Finals
2012-22: Best RS Record, CSF
2022-23: CSF
2023-24: The end.

It's possible that for the new owner this was all worth it just to show he was an enthusiastic supporter of the Suns who isn't afraid to spend, but there's a distinct possibility that he just sentenced himself to a rebuild that last longer than the above window of relevance. That sucks.

Of course, so much of this depends on Booker's mentality. If he sees the value in becoming synonymous with a franchise and city, maybe he'll just wait patiently as things get worse before they get better. But there really isn't any reason to think that the Suns are going to be contenders with Durant & Beal given what we've seen and the fact these guys are on the wrong side of the hill.

[The High Cyde]

Just a few random thoughts:

Phoenix bowing out in the first round has been no surprise, most of the posters here saw the writing on the wall as soon as the team was constructed. You just can’t win like that.
Durant I believe is done as an impact player, surgeries and his lack of playmaking is shedding light that he’s maybe a one dimensional player, now more than ever. The portability of him is in serious question, but that doesn’t really matter.
Vogel also deserves better than that circus, but he’ll of course be axed pretty soon. His hands were tied though.

Ant man is the real deal, he has the back line defense to fall back on but he’s been no slouch either. His defense and playmaking looks amazing for his age. He has arrived. Wolves will continue to be a terror with that core indeed.
The whole team is freaking awesome, that defense is *chefs kiss

The Knickerbockers fueled by Brunson is so much fun to watch, what an incredible player. Happy for Knicks fans, they needed this. Sucks about the injuries, but I think this team under Thibs will be a problem in the East for the foreseeable future. Probably second to Boston only. I definitely like watching the Knicks more than them lol

Philly just can’t stay healthy, if they get tossed in 5, idk what tangible ways there are for them to advance to at least the CF. Embiid might not be it for them, too many random injuries throughout the years, and he’s been no spring chicken even when he came into the league. Maxey is the future here no doubt.

Pacers, I have to see more of, they’re not really playing a playoff caliber team anymore so it’s tough to say. They’ll advance though I think, and be their offense is so quick and helter skelter they’ll be confident going into round two, and that can be dangerous. Haliburton gets healthier by the day so watch out.

Milwaukee experiment with Dame and Giannis has been a failure so far, they might run it back, but they need more defense if they are to compete.

I’m here to see Paolo Banchero bully the Cavs, welcome to the party young man. I don’t think the Cavs advance here, they have some tough decisions to make this offseason. Their two duos of of Mitchell/ Garland and Allen/Mobley aren’t good enough.

With Murray being hurt with a calf strain, the Lakers are suddenly a bit imposing led by a maniacal 39 year old who has nothing to lose, game 5 will be very interesting. Or maybe the Nuggets blow them out lol but I’ll be here to see it.

Jokic is, in my mind, already better than Jordan ever was, idc if it’s controversial. I think it’s obvious. He does too many things at such a high level I don’t know if there are 5 players better than him all time. Jordan seems archaic and mechanical in comparison to him. Jokic is so much better than whoever the second best player in the league is right now, he has to be compared to the all time greats, and his skill set is too vast compared to them, especially for a big man, who have sort of always had a larger impact on the court relative to other positions historically. Someone on the GB mentioned he’s like Shaq plus Kobe in one player, and lol it’s not that far fetched!

Clips/Mavs series has been such a weird one. This looks like it’s going seven, my heart can only take so much lmao
Kyrie is most definitely an offensive god, there is no defense for his shotmaking, and an absolute joy to watch, just wish he was killing some other team right now lol
Idk what to say about Luka, an incredible player but way too ball dominant. Basketball now more than ever is about ball and body movement. It’s inorganic the way they play. He doesn’t look in shape either, which is weird, way too doughy right now. He needs to take conditioning seriously. I think he falls back on “well I’m skilled af and big af, and I got Kyrie with me, it doesn’t matter”

And Clips idk what to say either, Kawhi being in and out of the lineup has blurred any meaningful analysis, they definitely seem to play with a ton more urgency when he’s not in. Maybe it should stay that way until he’s 100% ready, but who knows with him.

Very fun playoffs so far, loving it. Refereeing could be a bit more consistent though, but that’s always been garbage in this league. Feast or famine, you never really know what type of game they will call, and they seem to change it up as the game goes on, which can be infuriating, but meh whatcha gonna do haha

[SpreeS]

Read on Twitter

W/ all the inflated ass scoring guards, wing handlers the classic Pg game manager that can play defense, hit shots, playmake like a Conley has become so disrespected

Very good point

2019 Lowry
2021 Holiday
2024 Maybe Conley/D.White???

[OldSchoolNoBull]

It's really sad seeing the Suns burn through a generation of young players that could have been loved by the city for a long time for just a few years of relevance.

Over all those years of sucking, they got:

2019-20: Good in the Bubble
2020-21: Finals
2012-22: Best RS Record, CSF
2022-23: CSF
2023-24: The end.

It's possible that for the new owner this was all worth it just to show he was an enthusiastic supporter of the Suns who isn't afraid to spend, but there's a distinct possibility that he just sentenced himself to a rebuild that last longer than the above window of relevance. That sucks.

Of course, so much of this depends on Booker's mentality. If he sees the value in becoming synonymous with a franchise and city, maybe he'll just wait patiently as things get worse before they get better. But there really isn't any reason to think that the Suns are going to be contenders with Durant & Beal given what we've seen and the fact these guys are on the wrong side of the hill.

When I look at Ishiba buying the team and then overzealously trying to stack his way to a championship, it seems somewhat reminiscent of when Mikhail Prokhorov bought the Nets and tried to stack names to get to a championship quickly. Buys the team in 2009. Talks up a big game about how the Nets are going to win a championship before the Knicks. Trades Derrick Favors and two firsts for Deron Williams in 2011. Trades a bunch of inconsequential salary and another first for Joe Johnson in 2012. Trades Gerald Wallace and other salary plus four firsts and a first swap(two of those fives firsts became Tatum and Brown, and another became Colin Sexton) for old KG and Pierce in 2013. The team actually gets worse in 2013-14 than it had been in 2012-13, the whole thign falls apart in spectacular fashion, and Prokhorov gets real quiet until he sells half his stake in the team in 2017 and the other half in 2019.

Hopefully it doesn't end that badly for Ishiba and the Suns fanbase.

[OldSchoolNoBull]

Jokic is, in my mind, already better than Jordan ever was, idc if it’s controversial. I think it’s obvious. He does too many things at such a high level I don’t know if there are 5 players better than him all time. Jordan seems archaic and mechanical in comparison to him. Jokic is so much better than whoever the second best player in the league is right now, he has to be compared to the all time greats, and his skill set is too vast compared to them, especially for a big man, who have sort of always had a larger impact on the court relative to other positions historically. Someone on the GB mentioned he’s like Shaq plus Kobe in one player, and lol it’s not that far fetched!

While I agree that Jokic is the best player in basketball right now, and without making it a "who's better" thing, I don't know how one can watch Jordan film and describe him as "mechanical". The dude was one of the most graceful basketball players ever - there's a reason he captured the collective imagination so much beyond the winning and the stats, and it's the way he moved in the air and on the court.

But yes, Jokic is incredible.

[ardee]

It's really sad seeing the Suns burn through a generation of young players that could have been loved by the city for a long time for just a few years of relevance.

Over all those years of sucking, they got:

2019-20: Good in the Bubble
2020-21: Finals
2012-22: Best RS Record, CSF
2022-23: CSF
2023-24: The end.

It's possible that for the new owner this was all worth it just to show he was an enthusiastic supporter of the Suns who isn't afraid to spend, but there's a distinct possibility that he just sentenced himself to a rebuild that last longer than the above window of relevance. That sucks.

Of course, so much of this depends on Booker's mentality. If he sees the value in becoming synonymous with a franchise and city, maybe he'll just wait patiently as things get worse before they get better. But there really isn't any reason to think that the Suns are going to be contenders with Durant & Beal given what we've seen and the fact these guys are on the wrong side of the hill.

If it was just Booker and Durant, I could see a fast retool, either with Durant still or moving him for more pieces around Booker.

But the Beal contract, my God, I think that will become the Arenas contract of this generation. Unbelievably horrible trade in hindsight, probably even more franchise killing than the Westbrook one was for LA.

[MartinToVaught]

they definitely seem to play with a ton more urgency when he’s not in.

I don't think it's a matter of urgency. This team has nearly blown huge leads in both games without Kawhi, that doesn't strike me as a team that's playing with urgency.

Kawhi is physically incapable of playing right now and Lue's dumbass gameplan for Game 2 was to run the offense through him like he's 100% healthy. That took so much out of him that he couldn't even be a decoy in Game 3. We were basically playing 4-on-5 whenever he was on the court.

[Colbinii]

they definitely seem to play with a ton more urgency when he’s not in.

I don't think it's a matter of urgency. This team has nearly blown huge leads in both games without Kawhi, that doesn't strike me as a team that's playing with urgency.

Kawhi is physically incapable of playing right now and Lue's dumbass gameplan for Game 2 was to run the offense through him like he's 100% healthy. That took so much out of him that he couldn't even be a decoy in Game 3. We were basically playing 4-on-5 whenever he was on the court.

Do you call every coach a dumbass?

Lue is very clearly a Top 5-7 coach in the NBA. The fact this series is 2-2 shows just how great a coach Lue is.

[MartinToVaught]

they definitely seem to play with a ton more urgency when he’s not in.

I don't think it's a matter of urgency. This team has nearly blown huge leads in both games without Kawhi, that doesn't strike me as a team that's playing with urgency.

Kawhi is physically incapable of playing right now and Lue's dumbass gameplan for Game 2 was to run the offense through him like he's 100% healthy. That took so much out of him that he couldn't even be a decoy in Game 3. We were basically playing 4-on-5 whenever he was on the court.

Do you call every coach a dumbass?

Lue is very clearly a Top 5-7 coach in the NBA. The fact this series is 2-2 shows just how great a coach Lue is.

I called his gameplan dumb. Running your offense through a player who can barely move and hasn't played or practiced in weeks is self-evidently dumb. We're not talking about some advanced higher-level coaching here, this is just basic common sense. We're lucky that it's only 2-2 after playing 4-on-5 for two games in a row.

Where Lue is ranked is not the point of my post. I don't think "urgency" has to do with why the Clippers are winning without Kawhi. He is so limited by his injuries right now that giving his minutes to Coffey increases our chances of winning. And it wasn't Lue who made the call to bench Kawhi again, it was Frank.

[Texas Chuck]

I hope the Clippers turn over coaching decisions to Martin instead of letting a championship coach make them. It's as silly as Mavs fans killing Kidd for his decisions not playing Gafford or Lively to end the game when it was in part his decisions that got them back in the game in the first place.

Like not every decision leads to winning because they pay the guys on the other side a ton of money too. It's hard to win playoff games. You aren't entitled for you coach to push the magic winning button lol.

[Colbinii]

I hope the Clippers turn over coaching decisions to Martin instead of letting a championship coach make them. It's as silly as Mavs fans killing Kidd for his decisions not playing Gafford or Lively to end the game when it was in part his decisions that got them back in the game in the first place.

Like not every decision leads to winning because they pay the guys on the other side a ton of money too. It's hard to win playoff games. You aren't entitled for you coach to push the magic winning button lol.

Hindsight is 20/20

Guess what, if Lue barely plays Kawhi then you have the same people shouting from their imaginary 10 story balcony "Why didn't Kawhi play more? He should have played more, even if he was slow he is still an elite shot maker and good defender!"

People who call out coaches are hilarious to me because it's typically people who know very little about the team. This isn't someone in team meetings who understands all the game plan to a detail and then see's the coach do something completely different.

Also, Lue isn't the only one making these decisions. Any good coach is going to rely heavily on his assistants/scouts/trainers/ect for information and then make the best possible decision based on all the information they are presented with.

[MartinToVaught]

Game 3's plan of using Kawhi as a decoy in limited minutes is how he should have been used in Game 2. That isn't hindsight, it was obvious in real time from watching the game that he wasn't physically ready for anything more than that. By the time we finally adjusted to his physical condition, it was too late, the damage had already been done.

I don't solely blame Lue, by the way. We've had the same medical staff since the Sterling years and they've been notorious for rushing players back from injury before they're ready, among other things.

[parsnips33]

I know everybody loves the MJ comp, but Ant's shotblocking as a guard is crazy impressive - shades of D Wade

[The High Cyde]

Jokic is, in my mind, already better than Jordan ever was, idc if it’s controversial. I think it’s obvious. He does too many things at such a high level I don’t know if there are 5 players better than him all time. Jordan seems archaic and mechanical in comparison to him. Jokic is so much better than whoever the second best player in the league is right now, he has to be compared to the all time greats, and his skill set is too vast compared to them, especially for a big man, who have sort of always had a larger impact on the court relative to other positions historically. Someone on the GB mentioned he’s like Shaq plus Kobe in one player, and lol it’s not that far fetched!

While I agree that Jokic is the best player in basketball right now, and without making it a "who's better" thing, I don't know how one can watch Jordan film and describe him as "mechanical". The dude was one of the most graceful basketball players ever - there's a reason he captured the collective imagination so much beyond the winning and the stats, and it's the way he moved in the air and on the court.

But yes, Jokic is incredible.

I understand, it’s a strong statement. I don’t think any of you would agree. No one really has to. I get it that Jordan was a phenom, dunking and gliding with a terror of a first step, at least the early part of his career, and then transitioning to a midrange assassin with decent to above average defense.

In comparison to Jokic though, I don’t see anyone as “organic” as him. Jokic doesn’t need to be an extraordinary force/ freak of nature, he feels like nature itself. Constant and free flowing and inevitable. Maybe mechanical was the wrong word here in my part to describe Jordan, who is top 3 or top 5 at worst, but Jokic doesn’t need a scheme like the Triangle with simple reads to be successful, Jokic is the scheme, and it’s just as if not more effective than what MJ and Phil ran. It’s definitely more involved than the triangle, and more fun to watch where the triangle was more or less predictable. I mean you could say that about the inevitability of a Jokic-Murray PnR, but that’s mostly a break in case of emergency strategy. Rambling here though.

The shots Jokic takes and makes, the passing that rivals and maybe even surpasses that of freaking Magic, another top 1 or top 5 at his position ever, his defense as a big man which is more important than a SG could ever have, and his IQ is looking a cut above MJ. Peak to peak, even prime to prime I’m taking Jokic and I wouldn’t think too hard about it. We haven’t seen a center like Jokic, he has normalized his absurdity in a league stacked to the gills with otherworldly talent. I look at how Jokic plays the game and have a hard time seeing anyone playing it better. It looks like how the game was always meant to be played. But maybe I’m being incredibly shortsighted with this, yet I can’t shake the feeling.

The closest to surpassing him would be a theoretical peak Wemby, who’s so far ahead of the curve right now it’s a bit mind boggling.

[Heej]

As a Knicks fan Brunson is the most fun I've had watching a Knicks player. Feel like offensively he has the most continuous moves I've ever seen. Where other guys can chain 2-3 moves together, Brunson will do 2-3 dribble moves, pump fake, step through, and then turn around and fade. Or where people will hesi and then hit a pullback dribble and shoot, Brunson has the footwork to add in another crossover and sidestep on top of that to generate space. It's unreal. He's like the Tasmanian Devil lol. Just a whirling dervish.

Also I like what I see on defense. He doesn't get smoked by other PGs in iso, and on rotations he's always in position rotating early at the nail to slow down Embiid on short rolls and contesting defensive rebounds. I expected him to have a mini Harden-esque leap coming to New York as the man. He's taken almost a full Harden leap honestly.

[Heej]

Jokic is, in my mind, already better than Jordan ever was, idc if it’s controversial. I think it’s obvious. He does too many things at such a high level I don’t know if there are 5 players better than him all time. Jordan seems archaic and mechanical in comparison to him. Jokic is so much better than whoever the second best player in the league is right now, he has to be compared to the all time greats, and his skill set is too vast compared to them, especially for a big man, who have sort of always had a larger impact on the court relative to other positions historically. Someone on the GB mentioned he’s like Shaq plus Kobe in one player, and lol it’s not that far fetched!

While I agree that Jokic is the best player in basketball right now, and without making it a "who's better" thing, I don't know how one can watch Jordan film and describe him as "mechanical". The dude was one of the most graceful basketball players ever - there's a reason he captured the collective imagination so much beyond the winning and the stats, and it's the way he moved in the air and on the court.

But yes, Jokic is incredible.

I understand, it’s a strong statement. I don’t think any of you would agree. No one really has to. I get it that Jordan was a phenom, dunking and gliding with a terror of a first step, at least the early part of his career, and then transitioning to a midrange assassin with decent to above average defense.

In comparison to Jokic though, I don’t see anyone as “organic” as him. Jokic doesn’t need to be an extraordinary force/ freak of nature, he feels like nature itself. Constant and free flowing and inevitable. Maybe mechanical was the wrong word here in my part to describe Jordan, who is top 3 or top 5 at worst, but Jokic doesn’t need a scheme like the Triangle with simple reads to be successful, Jokic is the scheme, and it’s just as if not more effective than what MJ and Phil ran. It’s definitely more involved than the triangle, and more fun to watch where the triangle was more or less predictable. I mean you could say that about the inevitability of a Jokic-Murray PnR, but that’s mostly a break in case of emergency strategy. Rambling here though.

The shots Jokic takes and makes, the passing that rivals and maybe even surpasses that of freaking Magic, another top 1 or top 5 at his position ever, his defense as a big man which is more important than a SG could ever have, and his IQ is looking a cut above MJ. Peak to peak, even prime to prime I’m taking Jokic and I wouldn’t think too hard about it. We haven’t seen a center like Jokic, he has normalized his absurdity in a league stacked to the gills with otherworldly talent. I look at how Jokic plays the game and have a hard time seeing anyone playing it better. It looks like how the game was always meant to be played. But maybe I’m being incredibly shortsighted with this, yet I can’t shake the feeling.

The closest to surpassing him would be a theoretical peak Wemby, who’s so far ahead of the curve right now it’s a bit mind boggling.

The problem with Jokic right now is he's giving up 1.5 PPP when the Lakers are running plays involving double screens at him and forcing him to guard downhill ballhandlers in space as per Cranjis McBasketball on Twitter tracking Chicago and Double Drag actions.

His defense is more impactful as a center than a SG. But it can also be more negatively impactful if he's below par for a contending level center defensively. Jordan had a lot of flaws with gambling on defense,poor fundamentals in screen navigation, poor post defense, but he wasn't targeted quite like Jokic has been (Magic posting him in 91 notwithstanding).

[parsnips33]

As a Knicks fan Brunson is the most fun I've had watching a Knicks player. Feel like offensively he has the most continuous moves I've ever seen. Where other guys can chain 2-3 moves together, Brunson will do 2-3 dribble moves, pump fake, step through, and then turn around and fade. Or where people will hesi and then hit a pullback dribble and shoot, Brunson has the footwork to add in another crossover and sidestep on top of that to generate space. It's unreal. He's like the Tasmanian Devil lol. Just a whirling dervish.

Also I like what I see on defense. He doesn't get smoked by other PGs in iso, and on rotations he's always in position rotating early at the nail to slow down Embiid on short rolls and contesting defensive rebounds. I expected him to have a mini Harden-esque leap coming to New York as the man. He's taken almost a full Harden leap honestly.

Unreal what a guy this small is doing without outlier athleticism. The combination of skill and physicality is remarkable. Glad I got to go to Knicks-Warriors this year and see him up close