VanWest82 wrote:PistolPeteJR wrote:VanWest82 wrote:I'm sure this has been said already (and was immediately dismissed), but 09 Lebron was a flawed player and 13 wasn't even though Bron wasn't quite the same athlete anymore in 13. He lost in 07, 08, 10, and 11 for essentially the same reasons: his jumper wasn't good enough, his post game wasn't good enough, and as a result he didn't have a good enough answer for a zone / flooding the strong side combined with good transition defense. Edit: obviously there are other reasons his teams lost, but in terms of his own culpability...
Lebron has talked at length about how he used the lockout to really work on these weak aspects of his game, and has openly credited Dwane Casey for being the guy who finally convinced him he needed to change.
Anyone arguing 09 is basically ignoring this context or overly focusing on his regular season success followed by an unsustainable post season shooting hot streak against teams that didn't execute the kind of schemes that gave him so much trouble in the surrounding playoff exits/failures. You're basically saying Lebron doesn't know what he's talking about but I do. Let's trust Lebron here.
I agree that ‘13 LeBron had diversified his scoring skillset, but that isn’t why he lost in 08-10. He lost in those years because his supporting cast, frankly, sucked.
I mean, sure. Jordan lost 88-90 because his supporting cast wasn't good enough (and because Pistons injured him in those series). Lebron lost because his teammates were also not good enough (see my edit). But Lebron also lost in 08 and 10 because HE wasn't good enough. Go back and watch those last three games in 2010. Gilbert said he quit. I say it's because Celtics were more committed in bringing big baby and Sheed over to flood the strong side and cut off Bron's driving lanes. It led to a bunch of turnovers. Mavs also zoned up the strong side. If Lebron had been a better shooter, he would've shot over it. If he'd been a better post player, he would've given up the ball, fought for position, and operated out of the post the way he's done in later years. Those things didn't happen.
2010 was a winnable series. Cavs lost in part because Lebron wasn't good enough. Heat lost in 2011 in part because Lebron wasn't good enough. This context is really important re 2009.
We can't blame LeBron in 08 when he played better than Kobe did with a worse team and the Cavs outscored the Celtics. We have to be fair and consistent.
There are certain games in the 2010 series vs the Celtics, I'd lay blame on LeBron, but I do think that roster was flawed. I picked the Celtics in 6 before the series myself. Maybe you could argue Rondo outplayed him in the series from a glance at box score metrics(not sure how the other numbers bear that out).
2011, LeBron himself said he wasn't good enough, so that's the only one I'd agree on.
But the discourse is about 2009. What happened in 2010, 2011 or 2008 has no bearing on 2009. I'm not going to criticize 2009 because of failings(2011) in other years as proof that he would have failed in 2009 as well(if they got to the finals). Those are silly hypotheticals and I don't like engaging in those.
LeBron's play in 2009 was exceptional and the only reason he didn't win a title that season was because the Cavs were again a flawed roster.