Brunson v Curry

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Re: Brunson v Curry 

Post#21 » by trex_8063 » Thu Mar 21, 2024 3:28 pm

Laimbeer wrote:This came up on the Knicks/Warriors broadcast. At first I thought it was crazy, but Brunson has been so good this season.

Who is the better player now?


Yeah, based on sentiment their names sort of bring to mind, one wouldn't think this is a question. And I admit I perhaps hadn't paid enough attention to just how good Brunson has been this year. And Curry, while very good, isn't lighting the world on fire anymore (no harsh criticism in that: he's 35 after all).

I actually do think it's Brunson. Good on him.

I remember his dad, mostly from his days in Chicago (which is kinda weird, since he played <600 minutes TOTAL in a Bulls uniform, but that was the team I followed super-close at the time). Of course Rick Brunson was basically a scrub: only played a little over 4500 minutes in his entire career (barely scrapped out a career at all).

It got me wondering if there has ever been a father/son duo of NBA players with such a massive gap between how good they were. I can't think of anyone off the top of my head (though maybe LeBron and Bronny will end up with a bigger one???).
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Re: Brunson v Curry 

Post#22 » by eminence » Thu Mar 21, 2024 3:49 pm

trex_8063 wrote:
Laimbeer wrote:This came up on the Knicks/Warriors broadcast. At first I thought it was crazy, but Brunson has been so good this season.

Who is the better player now?


Yeah, based on sentiment their names sort of bring to mind, one wouldn't think this is a question. And I admit I perhaps hadn't paid enough attention to just how good Brunson has been this year. And Curry, while very good, isn't lighting the world on fire anymore (no harsh criticism in that: he's 35 after all).

I actually do think it's Brunson. Good on him.

I remember his dad, mostly from his days in Chicago (which is kinda weird, since he played <600 minutes TOTAL in a Bulls uniform, but that was the team I followed super-close at the time). Of course Rick Brunson was basically a scrub: only played a little over 4500 minutes in his entire career (barely scrapped out a career at all).

It got me wondering if there has ever been a father/son duo of NBA players with such a massive gap between how good they were. I can't think of anyone off the top of my head (though maybe LeBron and Bronny will end up with a bigger one???).


George Mikan III (Larry)

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/mikanla01.html
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Re: Brunson v Curry 

Post#23 » by Colbinii » Thu Mar 21, 2024 4:02 pm

trex_8063 wrote:
Laimbeer wrote:This came up on the Knicks/Warriors broadcast. At first I thought it was crazy, but Brunson has been so good this season.

Who is the better player now?


Yeah, based on sentiment their names sort of bring to mind, one wouldn't think this is a question. And I admit I perhaps hadn't paid enough attention to just how good Brunson has been this year. And Curry, while very good, isn't lighting the world on fire anymore (no harsh criticism in that: he's 35 after all).

I actually do think it's Brunson. Good on him.

I remember his dad, mostly from his days in Chicago (which is kinda weird, since he played <600 minutes TOTAL in a Bulls uniform, but that was the team I followed super-close at the time). Of course Rick Brunson was basically a scrub: only played a little over 4500 minutes in his entire career (barely scrapped out a career at all).

It got me wondering if there has ever been a father/son duo of NBA players with such a massive gap between how good they were. I can't think of anyone off the top of my head (though maybe LeBron and Bronny will end up with a bigger one???).


Luke Walton and Bill Walton.

One is a Top 15 Peak ever, one started < 1/4 of his NBA Career and averaged 17 MPG.

Rick Barry and Jon/Drew Barry (I love me some Brent Barry though)

Kevin Love and Stan Love
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Re: Brunson v Curry 

Post#24 » by trex_8063 » Thu Mar 21, 2024 4:34 pm

eminence wrote:
trex_8063 wrote:
Yeah, based on sentiment their names sort of bring to mind, one wouldn't think this is a question. And I admit I perhaps hadn't paid enough attention to just how good Brunson has been this year. And Curry, while very good, isn't lighting the world on fire anymore (no harsh criticism in that: he's 35 after all).

I actually do think it's Brunson. Good on him.

I remember his dad, mostly from his days in Chicago (which is kinda weird, since he played <600 minutes TOTAL in a Bulls uniform, but that was the team I followed super-close at the time). Of course Rick Brunson was basically a scrub: only played a little over 4500 minutes in his entire career (barely scrapped out a career at all).

It got me wondering if there has ever been a father/son duo of NBA players with such a massive gap between how good they were. I can't think of anyone off the top of my head (though maybe LeBron and Bronny will end up with a bigger one???).


George Mikan III (Larry)

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/mikanla01.html



Interesting; I wasn't even aware of his son.
There is some mud in the water, just with regards to the league of '71 being more integrated/competitive than in Mikan Sr.'s day. But even so, the gap in effectiveness is so massive that you're probably right.
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Re: Brunson v Curry 

Post#25 » by trex_8063 » Thu Mar 21, 2024 4:50 pm

Colbinii wrote:
trex_8063 wrote:Yeah, based on sentiment their names sort of bring to mind, one wouldn't think this is a question. And I admit I perhaps hadn't paid enough attention to just how good Brunson has been this year. And Curry, while very good, isn't lighting the world on fire anymore (no harsh criticism in that: he's 35 after all).

I actually do think it's Brunson. Good on him.

I remember his dad, mostly from his days in Chicago (which is kinda weird, since he played <600 minutes TOTAL in a Bulls uniform, but that was the team I followed super-close at the time). Of course Rick Brunson was basically a scrub: only played a little over 4500 minutes in his entire career (barely scrapped out a career at all).

It got me wondering if there has ever been a father/son duo of NBA players with such a massive gap between how good they were. I can't think of anyone off the top of my head (though maybe LeBron and Bronny will end up with a bigger one???).


Luke Walton and Bill Walton.

One is a Top 15 Peak ever, one started < 1/4 of his NBA Career and averaged 17 MPG.

Rick Barry and Jon/Drew Barry (I love me some Brent Barry though)

Kevin Love and Stan Love


I would say no on the Barry's. Brent Barry was pretty good in his prime: solid starter-level player for at least a handful of years, arguably peaked at a lower-tier All-Star level (like around '02). Ultimately managed a 14-year career, playing more career minutes than a few players we've inducted in the top 100 project.
That's massively superior to Rick Brunson, and I don't think Rick Barry was THAT much better than Jalen Brunson, personally.
Even in a Rick/Jon comparison, I still might lean toward the gap being larger between the Brunson's.

The Love's I would give a maybe/probably. That is: almost assuredly a yes for CAREER, as Stan's was awfully short, and Kevin has been around and useful for forever now, has some jewelry, too.
For peak......idk, that's closer.

The Walton's.......yeah, for peak I would certainly agree. Although I suspect the gap in CAREER value will end up being larger with the Brunson's, as long as Jalen's career isn't totally derailed by a major injury.
Bill Walton's career was a flash, and also Luke wasn't as "scrubby" as Rick Brunson. He peaked as roughly a "league-average" player, but that's still notably better than Rick ever managed, and he played more than twice as many career minutes as Rick.
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Re: Brunson v Curry 

Post#26 » by SpreeS » Fri Mar 22, 2024 10:35 am

Brunson and Mitchell has better season than Curry. Nothing wrong here, he is 36y old. Kerr needs to understand that Curry offball game for this age, playing time and usage isn't the best solution. Curry is in TOP20 at avg speed on ofence (min 20min per game) and runed miles on offence...at 36y age...
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Re: Brunson v Curry 

Post#27 » by RSCD3_ » Sun Mar 24, 2024 12:24 am

With how everyone's talking about curry sounds he might not even be top 20 anymore
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Re: Brunson v Curry 

Post#28 » by GSP » Fri May 3, 2024 3:47 am

RSCD3_ wrote:With how everyone's talking about curry sounds he might not even be top 20 anymore


Hes def top 20 but hes def not close to top 10 anymore. Prolly not even top 15
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Re: Brunson v Curry 

Post#29 » by homecourtloss » Fri May 3, 2024 3:56 am

I never thought I say it, but this is clearly Brunson. It will be interesting to see if the “impact king” has a one very goood season left in him.
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Re: Brunson v Curry 

Post#30 » by MiamiBulls » Fri May 3, 2024 4:17 am

Not too impressed with Allen Iverson Jr.

-Brunson is one of the Worst Guard Defenders amongst starters in the NBA.

-Brunson is barely efficient scoring the basketball, 2023: +1.6% rTS. 2024: +1.2% rTS. 2024 Playoffs: 52.5% TS

-Brunson like Iverson, greatest asset is his playmaking. An overall ability to get two people on the ball & exploit the advantage.

-Like Iverson, a large dependency on Foul Drawing. In Brunson's case, outright grifting for Fouls calls.
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Re: Brunson v Curry 

Post#31 » by AEnigma » Fri May 3, 2024 4:41 am

I am not burying Curry. Bit of a down season. Could be a trend, could be a dip. His on/off will rebound next year if Paul is no longer with the team, and that is what really matters.
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Re: Brunson v Curry 

Post#32 » by Peregrine01 » Fri May 3, 2024 5:18 am

AEnigma wrote:I am not burying Curry. Bit of a down season. Could be a trend, could be a dip. His on/off will rebound next year if Paul is no longer with the team, and that is what really matters.


Do you really get off by being obnoxious on a basketball forum? Genuinely curious.
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Re: Brunson v Curry 

Post#33 » by Heej » Fri May 3, 2024 5:40 am

MiamiBulls wrote:Not too impressed with Allen Iverson Jr.

-Brunson is one of the Worst Guard Defenders amongst starters in the NBA.

-Brunson is barely efficient scoring the basketball, 2023: +1.6% rTS. 2024: +1.2% rTS. 2024 Playoffs: 52.5% TS

-Brunson like Iverson, greatest asset is his playmaking. An overall ability to get two people on the ball & exploit the advantage.

-Like Iverson, a large dependency on Foul Drawing. In Brunson's case, outright grifting for Fouls calls.

AI was a gambler. I think Brunson does nearly as well for his size as one can reasonably expect. He's always rotating and contesting on the boards. He's just too small. But also doesn't seem to just get fried by opposing lead guards either.

If I were to criticize anything about him it's his tunnel vision and shaky free throw shooting. Def needs to work on his off-ball movement more like Steph but I think he has it in him, there's just no other reliable ballhandler to give it to in order to use him off-ball when he's getting denied up court. He's a dog otherwise.

He went toe to toe with a legit MVP candidate in Embiid. Maybe Embiid is a 4th quarter dropper but still impressive.
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Re: Brunson v Curry 

Post#34 » by lessthanjake » Fri May 3, 2024 7:05 am

Brunson is currently better than Curry, because Curry just had his age 35-36 season and has declined a good bit (though obviously still really good), while Brunson is 27. This seems a rather unremarkable premise at this point though, to be honest. Brunson is going to be in a dogfight for all-NBA first team this year (if he doesn’t get it, then he’s very likely to be first off the board on the all-NBA second team), and is having playoff performances consistent with that. Steph’s like a third-team guy at this point. Of course, Steph in his earlier years is a different animal. I think the closer comparison would probably be Brunson this year compared to Steph last year—that’s more like the point where Steph was similarly good to current Brunson IMO.
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Re: Brunson v Curry 

Post#35 » by AEnigma » Fri May 3, 2024 9:24 am

2023 Steph “on par with Jalen Brunson” Curry: 30 points per 75 possessions on 65.6% true shooting (113 TS+), 42.7% from 3 (118 3P+), 24.8% free throw rate (93 FTr+)

2017 Steph “arguably greatest offensive peak in league history” Curry: 27.4 points per 75 possessions on 62.4% true shooting (113 TS+), 41.1% from 3 (115 3P+), 25.1% free throw rate (93 FTr+)

Different animal indeed. But apparently it is obnoxious to suggest that people seem to care more about on/off splits than about actual production.
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Re: Brunson v Curry 

Post#36 » by Throwawaytheone » Fri May 3, 2024 11:30 am

AEnigma wrote:I am not burying Curry. Bit of a down season. Could be a trend, could be a dip. His on/off will rebound next year if Paul is no longer with the team, and that is what really matters.



I agree we will most likely see a bit of a bounce back in on/off but i's less so about Paul and more about what kind of roster we trot out. If we come into the season with Wiggins and he once more plays like the worst starter in the league for 1/3 of the season, and Klay who might have another atrocious shooting start, and we start Kevon Looney for the first 40 games of the season (who... should not be playing) over an actual center, and Draymond misses a bunch of time because of his ridiculous shenanigans, then no matter how well Curry plays the on-component will be artificially deflated and the off-component will be artificially inflated.

As tragic as it is, Steph/Dray/TJD only played 150 minutes together but they were a pretty solid +7.7. I'd imagine that if all those prior factors mentioned hadn't gone as they did, and we played this setup from the beginning, Curry's box score stats and his on/off and much more importantly, how our season turnt out would have looked much different.

Ultimately nobody can predict how Kerr chooses to coach the roster or how the FO will shape it for the 25 season, though I have my suspicions that we're going to see the continuation of the soft-tank into being semi-relevant yet subpar once more.
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Re: Brunson v Curry 

Post#37 » by homecourtloss » Fri May 3, 2024 1:20 pm

MiamiBulls wrote:Not too impressed with Allen Iverson Jr.

-Brunson is one of the Worst Guard Defenders amongst starters in the NBA.

-Brunson is barely efficient scoring the basketball, 2023: +1.6% rTS. 2024: +1.2% rTS. 2024 Playoffs: 52.5% TS

-Brunson like Iverson, greatest asset is his playmaking. An overall ability to get two people on the ball & exploit the advantage.

-Like Iverson, a large dependency on Foul Drawing. In Brunson's case, outright grifting for Fouls calls.


Yes, the scoring may not be the most efficient, but the offense with him does incredibly well, and a lot has to do with the fact that he creates high EV shots for teammates while scoring decently on very difficult shots for himself. When you watch Brunson, you expect at some point that he will get tired playing such an exacting style over and over again with the opponents’ defense geared to stop him, but he works his Brunson magic by putting opponents “in jail,” keeping in control in highly difficult court situations, shooting and making shots while tightly defended.

Knicks’ ORtg with Brunson ON: 121.2
Knicks’ ORtg with Brunson OFF: 104.2

Like most small guards, Brunson isn’t a good defender.
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Re: Brunson v Curry 

Post#38 » by homecourtloss » Fri May 3, 2024 1:23 pm

AEnigma wrote:I am not burying Curry. Bit of a down season. Could be a trend, could be a dip. His on/off will rebound next year if Paul is no longer with the team, and that is what really matters.


I, too, think Curry has one last really good season next year.
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Re: Brunson v Curry 

Post#39 » by rk2023 » Fri May 3, 2024 1:48 pm

Brunson is a better floor raiser than both Curry and Durant at this point imo.

Regarding his efficiency:
• He’s had to shoulder a lot with very little secondary creation on his roster
• His scoring gravity (sometimes leveraged wrong into tough shots too often) opens up a fair share on the glass for a great rebounding cast around him
• He has one of the best turnover economies in the league, considering his total offensive load
• While not too stellar a manipulator, he can make the right reads and playmakes very well at times
• In catch-alls such as OBPM/OEPM for example, he grades out as a firm top 10 offensive player. The Knicks have a 9 point ORTG swing with him on vs. off. Based on any approach, he grades out as a very impactful player - more than True Shooting could tell it.
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Re: Brunson v Curry 

Post#40 » by Clyde Frazier » Fri May 3, 2024 3:21 pm

MiamiBulls wrote:Not too impressed with Allen Iverson Jr.

-Brunson is one of the Worst Guard Defenders amongst starters in the NBA.

-Brunson is barely efficient scoring the basketball, 2023: +1.6% rTS. 2024: +1.2% rTS. 2024 Playoffs: 52.5% TS

-Brunson like Iverson, greatest asset is his playmaking. An overall ability to get two people on the ball & exploit the advantage.

-Like Iverson, a large dependency on Foul Drawing. In Brunson's case, outright grifting for Fouls calls.


This is one of the most forced takes I've ever seen. After the first 2 poor shooting games of the series by brunson, he made adjustments and over the next 4 games put up 41.8 PPG, 3 RPG, 10.3 APG on 49/35/77 splits (59.2% TS).

Not to mention you're ignoring the fact that he has no teammate even close to him as a playmaker, playing without randle for months. OG also missed 26 games post trade. Middling efficiency isn't a big knock when you keep your team above water and still finish with the 2 seed.

This is coming off the series against the heat last season where he put up 31 PPG on 63.2% TS and saving the mavs from a first round exit prior to that. Sounds more like you just don't like the guy.

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