Is Brunson the best Knick since Ewing?
Moderators: Doctor MJ, Clyde Frazier, penbeast0, trex_8063, PaulieWal
Is Brunson the best Knick since Ewing?
-
- Lead Assistant
- Posts: 4,981
- And1: 1,176
- Joined: Nov 30, 2019
Is Brunson the best Knick since Ewing?
Is Jalen Brunson the best Knicks player since prime Patrick Ewing?
Some other names worthy to consider:
Allan Houston
Latrell Sprewell
Carmelo Anthony
Amare Stoudemire
Stephon Marbury
Kristaps Porzingis
Others that I've probably forgotten
Some other names worthy to consider:
Allan Houston
Latrell Sprewell
Carmelo Anthony
Amare Stoudemire
Stephon Marbury
Kristaps Porzingis
Others that I've probably forgotten
Re: Is Brunson the best Knick since Ewing?
-
- Sophomore
- Posts: 176
- And1: 179
- Joined: Aug 08, 2011
Re: Is Brunson the best Knick since Ewing?
He's probably right up there with Anthony.
Re: Is Brunson the best Knick since Ewing?
-
- Bench Warmer
- Posts: 1,405
- And1: 637
- Joined: Nov 28, 2012
Re: Is Brunson the best Knick since Ewing?
He's not as good as Melo, but probably right up there with Starbury.
Re: Is Brunson the best Knick since Ewing?
-
- Senior
- Posts: 673
- And1: 610
- Joined: Jul 10, 2010
Re: Is Brunson the best Knick since Ewing?
No love for LINSANITY?
Re: Is Brunson the best Knick since Ewing?
-
- General Manager
- Posts: 8,499
- And1: 6,023
- Joined: Apr 13, 2021
Re: Is Brunson the best Knick since Ewing?
- RCM88x
- RealGM
- Posts: 15,019
- And1: 18,981
- Joined: May 31, 2015
- Location: Lebron Ball
Re: Is Brunson the best Knick since Ewing?
Straight up he's probably better than Melo was in '13 imo but relative to the rest of the league Melo was probably a little better that year.
LookToShoot wrote:Melo is the only player that makes the Rockets watchable for the basketball purists. Otherwise it would just be three point shots and pick n roll.
Re: Is Brunson the best Knick since Ewing?
-
- Bench Warmer
- Posts: 1,469
- And1: 1,976
- Joined: Jan 25, 2016
Re: Is Brunson the best Knick since Ewing?
I'd personally take '13 Melo over Brunson as good as hes been.
Re: Is Brunson the best Knick since Ewing?
-
- Retired Mod
- Posts: 79,179
- And1: 20,607
- Joined: Oct 14, 2003
Re: Is Brunson the best Knick since Ewing?
13 and 14 Melo were pretty good on O. Brunson is roughly matching the scoring volume and is a considerably better playmaker, so his impact is similar, but due to the league environment, him rocking 58.8% TS is only +0.7% rTS, which takes some of the luster off compared to how Carmelo's 56.0% was +2.5%.
*shrug*
Net impact on O is similar enough, though. It's sort of the Derrick Rose routine, you know? Bleh volume scoring relative to the league on a team which needs it, but playmaking taking the impact onward and upward. Could make a decent argument either way in a vacuum, but I think Brunson is better for this Knicks team than would Melo be, and I don't think that any grand revelation.
Now, if you put Brunson in 2013 and he replicated these exact numbers, he'd be a +5.3% rTS guy AND the better playmaker, and even if you took a few percentage points off of Brunson's finishing inside the arc and shaved a bit off his FTr, he's still an easy book for 55%+ TS back in 2013 due to his shooting ability.
Tough call. Era and positional/role differences make these things not line up super well. Melo was basically having one of the best seasons of his career in both 2013 and 2014 regular seasons, so it's a good comparison and fun to think about, regardless.
*shrug*
Net impact on O is similar enough, though. It's sort of the Derrick Rose routine, you know? Bleh volume scoring relative to the league on a team which needs it, but playmaking taking the impact onward and upward. Could make a decent argument either way in a vacuum, but I think Brunson is better for this Knicks team than would Melo be, and I don't think that any grand revelation.
Now, if you put Brunson in 2013 and he replicated these exact numbers, he'd be a +5.3% rTS guy AND the better playmaker, and even if you took a few percentage points off of Brunson's finishing inside the arc and shaved a bit off his FTr, he's still an easy book for 55%+ TS back in 2013 due to his shooting ability.
Tough call. Era and positional/role differences make these things not line up super well. Melo was basically having one of the best seasons of his career in both 2013 and 2014 regular seasons, so it's a good comparison and fun to think about, regardless.
Re: Is Brunson the best Knick since Ewing?
-
- Sixth Man
- Posts: 1,679
- And1: 1,553
- Joined: Jul 19, 2010
Re: Is Brunson the best Knick since Ewing?
He's either the best or second best Knicks point guard next to Walt Frazier.
Re: Is Brunson the best Knick since Ewing?
-
- RealGM
- Posts: 28,551
- And1: 23,557
- Joined: Aug 11, 2015
Re: Is Brunson the best Knick since Ewing?
BlackThought wrote:He's either the best or second best Knicks point guard next to Walt Frazier.
He's definitely not better than Frazier.
Re: Is Brunson the best Knick since Ewing?
-
- Retired Mod
- Posts: 79,179
- And1: 20,607
- Joined: Oct 14, 2003
Re: Is Brunson the best Knick since Ewing?
70sFan wrote:BlackThought wrote:He's either the best or second best Knicks point guard next to Walt Frazier.
He's definitely not better than Frazier.
Yeah, he has some big playoff moments en route to a title to overcome first.
Re: Is Brunson the best Knick since Ewing?
-
- RealGM
- Posts: 32,034
- And1: 20,142
- Joined: Feb 13, 2013
Re: Is Brunson the best Knick since Ewing?
70sFan wrote:BlackThought wrote:He's either the best or second best Knicks point guard next to Walt Frazier.
He's definitely not better than Frazier.
Yeah he is about as good as Frazier...during the 1974 and 1975 seasons.
tsherkin wrote:Locked due to absence of adult conversation.
penbeast0 wrote:Guys, if you don't have anything to say, don't post.
Circa 2018
E-Balla wrote:LeBron is Jeff George.
Circa 2022
G35 wrote:Lebron is not that far off from WB in trade value.
Re: Is Brunson the best Knick since Ewing?
-
- Head Coach
- Posts: 7,489
- And1: 5,338
- Joined: Dec 17, 2014
Re: Is Brunson the best Knick since Ewing?
Fundamentals21 wrote:He's not as good as Melo, but probably right up there with Starbury.
Brunson's playoff performance last year was better than anything Melo did in the playoffs for the Knicks.
Re: Is Brunson the best Knick since Ewing?
-
- Head Coach
- Posts: 7,489
- And1: 5,338
- Joined: Dec 17, 2014
Re: Is Brunson the best Knick since Ewing?
Eagle4 wrote:I'd personally take '13 Melo over Brunson as good as hes been.
even though Melo underperformed in the playoffs that year? hmm
Re: Is Brunson the best Knick since Ewing?
-
- RealGM
- Posts: 28,551
- And1: 23,557
- Joined: Aug 11, 2015
Re: Is Brunson the best Knick since Ewing?
Colbinii wrote:70sFan wrote:BlackThought wrote:He's either the best or second best Knicks point guard next to Walt Frazier.
He's definitely not better than Frazier.
Yeah he is about as good as Frazier...during the 1974 and 1975 seasons.
I can give him 1975 Frazier vibes.
Re: Is Brunson the best Knick since Ewing?
- Texas Chuck
- Senior Mod - NBA TnT Forum
- Posts: 86,267
- And1: 89,559
- Joined: May 19, 2012
- Location: Purgatory
Re: Is Brunson the best Knick since Ewing?
Melo wasn't even the best player on the best of those Knicks teams. So yeah I'd have Brunson ahead of him for sure. And if we are only worried about scoring then Randle probably deserves as much consideration as Melo and likely more for that matter.
ThunderBolt wrote:I’m going to let some of you in on a little secret I learned on realgm. If you don’t like a thread, not only do you not have to comment but you don’t even have to open it and read it. You’re welcome.
Re: Is Brunson the best Knick since Ewing?
-
- Retired Mod
- Posts: 79,179
- And1: 20,607
- Joined: Oct 14, 2003
Re: Is Brunson the best Knick since Ewing?
Texas Chuck wrote:Melo wasn't even the best player on the best of those Knicks teams. So yeah I'd have Brunson ahead of him for sure. And if we are only worried about scoring then Randle probably deserves as much consideration as Melo and likely more for that matter.
Worth some thinking, that.
Melo was at 56.0 and 56.1% TS in 2013 and 2014. 105 and 104 TS+. Randle is at 56.9% in 2024, which is 98 TS+. He WAS doing much better in December and January, of course (62.9% and 58.9% TS over 14 and 14 games), so he might have rocked that on the season. But he also traded high-end 2FG% in December for 36.9% on 6 3PA/g in January after shooting 27.4% over the previous 28 games (on 4.8 3PA/g). So a couple of little hot streaks, making it hard to get a bead on what he could reliably do for the remainder of the season.
It was getting interesting, though, for sure.
Who do you consider better than Melo on those teams? Felton? Tyson Chandler? JR Smith? Jason Kidd in 26.9 mpg? Andrea Bargnani? Iman Shumpert?
Re: Is Brunson the best Knick since Ewing?
- Texas Chuck
- Senior Mod - NBA TnT Forum
- Posts: 86,267
- And1: 89,559
- Joined: May 19, 2012
- Location: Purgatory
Re: Is Brunson the best Knick since Ewing?
Chandler was better for sure. Kidd wasn't. Yet once again here is Kidd joining a team and they immediately get way better.
ThunderBolt wrote:I’m going to let some of you in on a little secret I learned on realgm. If you don’t like a thread, not only do you not have to comment but you don’t even have to open it and read it. You’re welcome.
Re: Is Brunson the best Knick since Ewing?
-
- Pro Prospect
- Posts: 760
- And1: 943
- Joined: Sep 20, 2014
Re: Is Brunson the best Knick since Ewing?
Texas Chuck wrote:Chandler was better for sure. Kidd wasn't. Yet once again here is Kidd joining a team and they immediately get way better.
How was Chandler better 'for sure' in your eyes? The only argument I can possibly think of is a 'portability' one where Chandler would theoretically slot better next to other star players...because Melo definitely had the most impact on that specific 2013 team, as many warts as he had.
I'm not sure the portability argument works either. Would Chandler retain more of his impact compared to Melo on a team that already has 2 perimeter stars, sure. Is the actual value of the impact greater, no idts.
Brunson clears both though.
Re: Is Brunson the best Knick since Ewing?
-
- RealGM
- Posts: 12,718
- And1: 9,366
- Joined: Mar 06, 2016
Re: Is Brunson the best Knick since Ewing?
Not peak but definitely and argument for prime