The LeBron James- 23-24 NBA Playoffs & Off-Season Thread -(NO PERSONAL ATTACKS & BAITING)

[Ian Scuffling]

Bro, Jordan literally left the core mid-way through

Golden State tried and succeeded

San Antonio tried and succeeded

Miami has a core that has been to 2 finals over 4 seasons and seems to be keeping Bam/Butler/Herro in tact

Denver is likely keeping this core

Literally the two teams to win the most over the past 20 seasons have had the same core in tact. The only other team/player to win like San Antonio/Golden State is...LeBron James.

He's just trolling at this point, or any attempt at critical thinking is hard for him. Either way. I'm done with him.

Why’s it always devolve into some personal attack with yall. Can’t help yourselves. If you’re done with me, stop responding. If you think I’m trolling, report. You don’t HAVE to call me stupid though. You can do better than that

LOL. Btw, saying that critically think is hard for you is not the same as calling you stupid. It's a skill, which you don't seem to have. It's never to learn to try and improve upon it, though.

[lessthanjake]

Winning with the same aging core is much harder than changing teams, especially repeating. That’s why nobody even tries anymore. This argument isn’t swaying anyone, ever

a. I don't get the 'no one even tries anymore' statement. Everyone tries(except for Kawhi in 2020) and some succeed.
b. Re the bolded part. If its so much easier to just switch teams why didn't MJ just do that rather than retire at 35? The reason he didn't is he knew full well how hard it would actually be and how it would be setting himself up for failure rather than retiring with his 6-0 in finals record in tact and his legacy secure. He didn't want to mess with that the same way he retired after the first 3 peat because deep down he knew how hard it would be to do 4 in a row and he'd rather sit out than risk losing. That's what I think. He said over and over again how burnt out he was(which I'm sure he was) but what it comes down to is him not wanting to have a season below the standard he'd set for himself which is a copout tbh. LeBron whether you like him or not just kept coming back and making finals runs season after season after season. No early retirements, no years off.

I actually think this is right. I’d be surprised if skepticism regarding winning again didn’t play a big part in Jordan retiring after the 1998 title. The team was really old and there was organizational strife, so if he’d stayed, there would’ve been huge roster and coaching turnover, or alternatively they’d have fielded a team that would’ve been clearly past it (and with a new coach). Obviously, that made there be a lot of uncertainty as to how things would’ve gone. Going to a different team was I guess theoretically an option, but it wasn’t something that a player of Jordan’s iconic title-winning stature did at that point. Magic, Bird, and Russell had been one-team players, and Kareem had left a team early in his career but not for basketball reasons. Wilt was the only super high-stature guy who did something similar, but it was sort of seen as evidence of weakness and an acknowledgment of inferiority, and he was not seen as a winner. For Jordan to have left for a different team at that point would’ve honestly been profoundly bizarre. LeBron himself ultimately changed the mindset on this a lot (and got a lot of criticism—I think mostly undeserved—for doing so), but I doubt Jordan thought very seriously about leaving Chicago at that point. I think the main options were just to retire as the virtually unanimous GOAT or to endure a rebuild at age 35+.

And I think what’s important to realize about this is that the incentives for these two guys are different. By the time he retired after the 1998 title, Jordan was already widely understood to be the GOAT. If you’re already virtually unanimously acknowledged to be the GOAT, there’s little reason to bother dealing with a rebuild in order to try to achieve even more. He was already clearly at the top of the mountain! And if you’re at the top already, there’s basically nowhere to go but down. That’s just not the case with LeBron. He has never been the consensus GOAT, and so he has always had something to chase. There has never been a time when he could sit back and rest on his laurels and feel like there’s no good reason to keep going because he’s already at the top of the mountain. I feel like anyone who has done competitive things and experienced both chasing others’ achievements and then passing them should understand the huge difference there is there.

The end result of these differing incentive structures is that LeBron probably has a bigger longevity gap over Jordan than he would if you reversed which one came first chronologically, while Jordan may have a more immaculate fairy-tale-like career than if he’d felt like there was real competition at the top of history and therefore felt more reason to keep going. Interestingly, those things are two of the biggest arguments each one has over the other, and I do think they’re at least partially (but not entirely) a product of circumstance/chronology.

[TroubleS0me]

Read on Twitter

[nzahir]

Read on Twitter

The issue is who are we getting

Ham did some things okay, had some decent sets when we ran them

But besides that, he was bad at in game adjustments, horrible with lineups and rotations, and seemed to have lost the respect of Bron and AD

Who are the best options available? Budenholzer is probably a better version of Ham, but similar defensive scheme and always pretty rigid with schemes and rotations

[PistolPeteJR]

I think moving Ham to an AC role after Year 1 would have been the most ideal scenario, but given all of this failed experiments in Year 2 and the players clearly checking out on him multiple times through the season, he's got to go.

Outside of nabbing a good coach from a different team (eg. Lue from LAC, Brown from SAC), I think the best they can probably do is something like Stotts as HC with someone like Joerger as a defensive specialist off the bench, and of course, keep Handy.

[trex_8063]

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I'm going to make some [unpopular] comments that I think need to be made at this point. I never visit the LeBron thread unless a post has been reported, and then when I check in, to my limited skimming it always seems like SEVERAL parties are at least marginally at fault. It's by far our most problematic thread, and I've sort of grown to hate it. So I'm just going to put some observations on record (hopefully not in too meandering a fashion).....

The LeBron Thread is not a place [or should not be a place] where one is ONLY allowed to sing Bron's praises. Posters should be allowed to level criticism in his direction or challenge the notion that he's the GOAT, without fear of personal attacks, ridicule, and generally being ganged up upon.

I'm a bit troubled by the perception that that is what is often seen here. I think most will recall the years of condescension and mock pity for another's delusions/ignorance, accusations of "stanning", and other general baiting that would come from the "Jordanites" if you had the audacity to suggest that LeBron was the GOAT.......even though, in many instances, LeBron's supporters were the ones providing the more thorough and convincing arguments (because let's face it: his resume for GOAT is astoundingly robust, and has been for a few years).

It was galling, was it not?

We're now starting to see that same behaviour, only now in the other direction: where if anyone dares cast a critical eye on LeBron's candidacy, he is met with accusations of bias/agenda, ridicule, condescension, and baiting (often from several persons at once).

I think multiple persons should be cautious that they don't become the very thing that they have hated in years past.


I will admit that (to my eye [I could be wrong]), the LeBron "haters" are more often guilty of flawed or bad faith arguments over the last few years. But that doesn't mean that each and every piece of data, argumentation, or opinion that casts him in a "less than GOAT" light is automatically given in bad faith (or necessarily even flawed).
And even if the argument is flimsy or flawed: just tease apart the argument itself, without casting the accusations, jabs and baits at the owner.


Further, while [again: to my eye] the "haters" are more often guilty of weak arguments or cherry-picked data, they don't have a corner on that market. I think there has been evidence of this even in the last several pages....

We've seen team net rating swing---data which is heavily influenced by various team factors, such as: role of the player in question, team construct and synergy, supporting cast depth, coaching, etc---used as the CHECKMATE argument for individual greatness, as though to the exclusion of anything else.

To use this data in this manner is probably already at least a little bit dubious.

One might further note that the bulk of Jordan's without sample was from '94: when he wasn't for a moment a part of that team in any capacity.
It wasn't like the missed games of other players: where the team is set up to play around that star for the season......and then suddenly he wasn't there for a handful of games (and the team then has to adjust in the short-term with whatever parts they had in place: becoming "Team X minus Star Y").
The '94 Bulls wasn't just the '93 cast minus Jordan. A number of new pieces were added.

Jordan's minutes on the perimeter where replaced by some combination of Pete Myers [meh], Steve Kerr [a nice supporting cast piece who would get 6MOY consideration], and rookie Toni Kukoc [promising young player]. And it's a slight thing, but they also marginally shored up their profound weakness at the C position by signing Bill Wennington, and [mid-season] off-loading the bloated baggage that was Stacey King in favour of Luc Longley.
These aren't Earth-shaking acquisitions, but they are additions to what was in place in '93 (and it certainly improved their bench, both in terms of quality and depth). As such, it muddies the water at least a little.
To me, using the '94 Bulls in the without would be a little bit like using the '15 Miami Heat outcome in LeBron's without sample: they still had Bosh, Wade, Chalmers, Chris Andersen, Udonis Haslem, Michael Beasley, Norris Cole [for half the year], plus a couple other scant-minute scrubs from '14; same coach, too. It's as much the "same team minus LeBron" as the the '94 Bulls were "the '93 Bulls minus Jordan". So why don't we just add it to Bron's without sample?
Because he wasn't a part of that organization at all that year; just like Jordan wasn't for the '94 Bulls.

And if ONLY using WOWY data gleaned from the years within the span where Jordan was actually part of the organization [at all], the Bulls without Jordan were 35-37 [from '88-'98] (.486 win%), vs .736 win% with him; and the net rating swing falls somewhere closer to +7.


One might additionally note that at least one of the persons pushing the net rating swing data as a CHECKMATE argument is, in other places, championing other players who look downright pedestrian based on the net rating change family of data. This could be viewed as suggestive that such data only represents a checkmate move when it supports one's position......and otherwise can be explained away with context, or countered and augmented with additional [more flattering] pieces of data, and so on.
At least one of these persons [after all of the above] went on to accuse others of bad faith argumentation and engage in repeated baiting, too.

If similar were done in the opposite direction [pro-Jordan and/or anti-LeBron], the author would be castigated and bullied until they felt like abandoning this forum (which, in fact, one poster itt was even encouraged to do).

But if it's in LeBron's favour---here on this forum, in this particular thread---not only are such parties NOT being called out, they are having others rally to their support to shout down and berate the opposition in what has many of the appearances of cronyism.


And I want to make something clear: I say all of the above as someone who has LeBron as the GOAT; has him as the GOAT by such a ridiculous margin at this point, that I am frankly bored by GOAT discussions.........for me the discussion doesn't really even begin until we're asking "who's #2?"
Because, by my criteria, and relating to my assessment of available information, LeBron is the GOAT by an absurdly obvious margin.

Even so, I submit to everyone that this cannot/should not become a place where a contrary opinion is flatly unwelcome. I have a great deal of worry that this forum is becoming---as some have accused---an echo chamber where dissenters are derided, bullied, and ganged up upon until they leave.

It's a bad look, and not a good thing for the health of the forum.
I'm sure this will sound condescending, but I think it needs saying anyway: be very careful that you are not one of the engines of this trend.

[tsherkin]

Excellent post.

[Cavsfansince84]

I actually think this is right. I’d be surprised if skepticism regarding winning again didn’t play a big part in Jordan retiring after the 1998 title. The team was really old and there was organizational strife, so if he’d stayed, there would’ve been huge roster and coaching turnover, or alternatively they’d have fielded a team that would’ve been clearly past it (and with a new coach). Obviously, that made there be a lot of uncertainty as to how things would’ve gone. Going to a different team was I guess theoretically an option, but it wasn’t something that a player of Jordan’s iconic title-winning stature did at that point. Magic, Bird, and Russell had been one-team players, and Kareem had left a team early in his career but not for basketball reasons. Wilt was the only super high-stature guy who did something similar, but it was sort of seen as evidence of weakness and an acknowledgment of inferiority, and he was not seen as a winner. For Jordan to have left for a different team at that point would’ve honestly been profoundly bizarre. LeBron himself ultimately changed the mindset on this a lot (and got a lot of criticism—I think mostly undeserved—for doing so), but I doubt Jordan thought very seriously about leaving Chicago at that point. I think the main options were just to retire as the virtually unanimous GOAT or to endure a rebuild at age 35+.

And I think what’s important to realize about this is that the incentives for these two guys are different. By the time he retired after the 1998 title, Jordan was already widely understood to be the GOAT. If you’re already virtually unanimously acknowledged to be the GOAT, there’s little reason to bother dealing with a rebuild in order to try to achieve even more. He was already clearly at the top of the mountain! And if you’re at the top already, there’s basically nowhere to go but down. That’s just not the case with LeBron. He has never been the consensus GOAT, and so he has always had something to chase. There has never been a time when he could sit back and rest on his laurels and feel like there’s no good reason to keep going because he’s already at the top of the mountain. I feel like anyone who has done competitive things and experienced both chasing others’ achievements and then passing them should understand the huge difference there is there.

The end result of these differing incentive structures is that LeBron probably has a bigger longevity gap over Jordan than he would if you reversed which one came first chronologically, while Jordan may have a more immaculate fairy-tale-like career than if he’d felt like there was real competition at the top of history and therefore felt more reason to keep going. Interestingly, those things are two of the biggest arguments each one has over the other, and I do think they’re at least partially (but not entirely) a product of circumstance/chronology.

It would have been strange to see Jordan leave the Bulls after 98 but given the dynamics of the team(Krause more or less forcing the team to break up) it wouldn't have been that bizarre if he had left. Hakeem left the Rockets and to draw comparisons to other sports Montana had just left the 49ers after 4 titles and being seen as the goat qb to join the Chiefs in his late 30's after Young took his spot. In sports anything can happen. MJ chose retirement and at that point you could argue he had nothing left to prove given how the media was already declaring him the goat but again I think he chose narrative over basketball even though he probably did want to keep going. Just as I'd say he chose it in 93 because I think he knew he didn't have it in the tank to do it again.

[Greatness]

I commend trex for making that post and believe it needed to be said.

This thread started way back in 2011 I believe to discuss LeBron's declining athleticism. So the entire nature of the thread to begin with was in a critiquing manner (valid one at the time, might I add). Some of the most thoughtful and interesting discussion regarding LeBron was made in those early threads, because the conversation was not just praise, it was fair.

This isn't a LeBron praise thread, it's an 'all-things when it comes to LeBron' thread. Not everyone who comes here looking to challenge our (I say our because I am a LeBron fan) opinions is a troll.

[zimpy27]

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I appreciate this post. It's good to see quality discussion on LeBron from both sides of the coin. Name calling or poster attacking has made me uncomfortable in here. I'm all for some banter and needling but sometimes I think it goes too far here.

I think posters that can have a thoughtful discussion that don't see LeBron as the GOAT are to be welcomed and even celbrated since I feel like I'm saturated in unthoughtful pithy comments on the subject.

[Ian Scuffling]

Please delete...double post.

[Ian Scuffling]

I commend trex for making that post and believe it needed to be said.

This thread started way back in 2011 I believe to discuss LeBron's declining athleticism. So the entire nature of the thread to begin with was in a critiquing manner (valid one at the time, might I add). Some of the most thoughtful and interesting discussion regarding LeBron was made in those early threads, because the conversation was not just praise, it was fair.

This isn't a LeBron praise thread, it's an 'all-things when it comes to LeBron' thread. Not everyone who comes here looking to challenge our (I say our because I am a LeBron fan) opinions is a troll.

True. But, people with obvious agendas are. Maybe, it's just me and I'll relent and just place him on the ignore list, but if your first defense of someone else or offense at Lebron is "Ringzzzz!1!!1", imo you're a troll. That's probably from my past experience in dealing with those people. I do apologize that I did assist that derailing, though. Mea culpa.

How about Ham being cooked? As usual, the mistake was hiring him in the first place and now it's simply cleanup. As others have said, now the next problem begins...trusting Pelinka/Jeannie to get that correct

[lessthanjake]

I actually think this is right. I’d be surprised if skepticism regarding winning again didn’t play a big part in Jordan retiring after the 1998 title. The team was really old and there was organizational strife, so if he’d stayed, there would’ve been huge roster and coaching turnover, or alternatively they’d have fielded a team that would’ve been clearly past it (and with a new coach). Obviously, that made there be a lot of uncertainty as to how things would’ve gone. Going to a different team was I guess theoretically an option, but it wasn’t something that a player of Jordan’s iconic title-winning stature did at that point. Magic, Bird, and Russell had been one-team players, and Kareem had left a team early in his career but not for basketball reasons. Wilt was the only super high-stature guy who did something similar, but it was sort of seen as evidence of weakness and an acknowledgment of inferiority, and he was not seen as a winner. For Jordan to have left for a different team at that point would’ve honestly been profoundly bizarre. LeBron himself ultimately changed the mindset on this a lot (and got a lot of criticism—I think mostly undeserved—for doing so), but I doubt Jordan thought very seriously about leaving Chicago at that point. I think the main options were just to retire as the virtually unanimous GOAT or to endure a rebuild at age 35+.

And I think what’s important to realize about this is that the incentives for these two guys are different. By the time he retired after the 1998 title, Jordan was already widely understood to be the GOAT. If you’re already virtually unanimously acknowledged to be the GOAT, there’s little reason to bother dealing with a rebuild in order to try to achieve even more. He was already clearly at the top of the mountain! And if you’re at the top already, there’s basically nowhere to go but down. That’s just not the case with LeBron. He has never been the consensus GOAT, and so he has always had something to chase. There has never been a time when he could sit back and rest on his laurels and feel like there’s no good reason to keep going because he’s already at the top of the mountain. I feel like anyone who has done competitive things and experienced both chasing others’ achievements and then passing them should understand the huge difference there is there.

The end result of these differing incentive structures is that LeBron probably has a bigger longevity gap over Jordan than he would if you reversed which one came first chronologically, while Jordan may have a more immaculate fairy-tale-like career than if he’d felt like there was real competition at the top of history and therefore felt more reason to keep going. Interestingly, those things are two of the biggest arguments each one has over the other, and I do think they’re at least partially (but not entirely) a product of circumstance/chronology.

It would have been strange to see Jordan leave the Bulls after 98 but given the dynamics of the team(Krause more or less forcing the team to break up) it wouldn't have been that bizarre if he had left. Hakeem left the Rockets and to draw comparisons to other sports Montana had just left the 49ers after 4 titles and being seen as the goat qb to join the Chiefs in his late 30's after Young took his spot. In sports anything can happen. MJ chose retirement and at that point you could argue he had nothing left to prove given how the media was already declaring him the goat but again I think he chose narrative over basketball even though he probably did want to keep going. Just as I'd say he chose it in 93 because I think he knew he didn't have it in the tank to do it again.

I do think it would’ve been *very* strange for Jordan to have left the Bulls after 1998. Hakeem did leave the Rockets, but he left at a point where he was long-since washed, and he also just wasn’t anywhere even remotely close to the stature of Jordan. Joe Montana leaving the 49ers is actually a decent comparison in terms of player stature, but obviously a different sport and also a pretty unique circumstance (he had been out with injury for two years by the time he left, and had been replaced by one of the best ever anyways). It’d be akin to if Pete Myers had turned out to be one of the best ever and Jordan had come back in 1995 to a different team. A lot less strange a decision.

But yes, Jordan did choose narrative over basketball. He was still probably the league’s best player in his final year (won the MVP and the title), so I think it’s pretty clear he could’ve put in more years as an elite player. And he chose not to, because there was nothing to prove, he was already the near-unanimous GOAT, and he had a fairy-tale ending and it wasn’t going to be a fairy-tale ending if he just kept going until he wasn’t winning anymore (and the upheaval in the team made there be a real risk of that happening quickly). Of course, the fairy-tale ending was eventually somewhat marred by the Wizards years much later, but that’s a separate decision years later. I’m not sure I’d put 1993 in the same bucket—there was a lot more going on there than just skepticism/worry about not being able to do it again (and there was definitely less reason to have such worry, given that he was in the middle of his prime and so was most of his team). I do think the post-1998 retirement decision really mostly just comes down to “I’m already the near-unanimous GOAT, so why would I bother staying around for a rebuild rather than going out on top having had a fairy-tale ending?” And I think that that decision might not have been made if Jordan came after LeBron chronologically, just as I think there’s a good chance LeBron would already be retired if he’d come before Jordan chronologically.

[Heej]

I commend trex for making that post and believe it needed to be said.

This thread started way back in 2011 I believe to discuss LeBron's declining athleticism. So the entire nature of the thread to begin with was in a critiquing manner (valid one at the time, might I add). Some of the most thoughtful and interesting discussion regarding LeBron was made in those early threads, because the conversation was not just praise, it was fair.

This isn't a LeBron praise thread, it's an 'all-things when it comes to LeBron' thread. Not everyone who comes here looking to challenge our (I say our because I am a LeBron fan) opinions is a troll.

I kinda miss the days where we could comfortably s*** on LeBron for the nights he didn't bring it just as often as we used to praise him on the nights he did. Maybe the stakes have gotten high since we're at the at the close, and maybe the hyenas have gotten way more active now that the old lion has been wounded, but rereading the last page and seeing all of us gang up on that kembawalker was a little distasteful.

But you gotta be real tho and acknowledge that LeBron fans aren't doing weird things like pulling up into threads solely to troll the way some of these losers are lmao. Most of the time the hornets nest gets stirred is when people are making troll comments and mentioning the guy out of the blue. Otherwise they're generally just content to stay put and participate in relevant debates.

I've seen the mods be significantly more heavy-handed on the regulars in this thread than the trolls that come in here lol. Maybe it's accrued resentment but there seems to be more of a target on the usual LeBron fans backs than there is on the usual LeBron trolls.

[PaulieWal]

I've seen the mods be significantly more heavy-handed on the regulars in this thread than the trolls that come in here lol. Maybe it's accrued resentment but there seems to be more of a target on the usual LeBron fans backs than there is on the usual LeBron trolls.

To add to what trex posted, there are a bunch of banned 'anti-LeBron' posters who think the PC board mod team banned them unfairly. I am not naming any names, but there are so many threads on GB where you can read a banned poster say, "Oh, I got banned by the biased PC board mods".

On the other hand, you have a bunch of pro-LeBron guys who think we are too light on the other side and they are the ones unfair targeted. Maybe, just maybe, we are actually not biased against one side or the other and action reports as we get them or as we see fit when we just browse on our own. Edit: We have even received insulting messages from some of the 'pro-LeBron' guys because they got banned by us.

Like Trex, I don't visit this thread often, although I probably do browse more than he does. But even then, 5 years ago, I'd be reading this thread daily, now it might be once a week.

Bottomline - I will say what the mod team always says. Report problematic posts and don't try to insult other posters or "get them back". Lose-lose-lose situation for everyone involved including the mod team.

[PaulieWal]

There’s a very subjective, fluid definition of baiting on this board that only allows for conversation to go in a certain, intended direction. Like obviously that post is bait but you’ll never see it get moderated the same way. Very lame given what this board is supposed to be about

Not giving a warning for this subtle backseat modding but man, I strongly disagree with this. Within this thread, you have the pro-LeBron guys thinking we are harsher on them than the anti-LeBron posters who they think are baiting or trolling. You are grossly mistaken if you think the mod team is biased to allow conversations only in a certain direction

If you think someone is baiting or attacking you, report the post and let us do our jobs.

[ardee]

Still not over how this season ended.

Healthiest season in years at age 39, most efficient he's been since arguably his Miami years.

If they had a better coach, they end up a higher seed and they're still playing.

They end up playing the Nuggets, ok fine, still a couple bounces go differently and they're up 3-2 after 5 heading home and going for the closeout.

What a **** waste. 2024 could have been so MEMORABLE.

[ardee]

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=KbgIZQMlsK5yoy5FC44h4w

Not sure if this tweet got posted in here.

Steph is not leaving GSW and I really doubt LeBron would have any interest in signing there considering they're the biggest rivals of his career.

Phoenix can't sign free agents and LeBron isn't taking a paycut either.

So that means the only possibility is Durant to the Lakers. Would certainly be a very interesting development, wonder how it would play out.

[Cavsfansince84]

I do think it would’ve been *very* strange for Jordan to have left the Bulls after 1998. Hakeem did leave the Rockets, but he left at a point where he was long-since washed, and he also just wasn’t anywhere even remotely close to the stature of Jordan. Joe Montana leaving the 49ers is actually a decent comparison in terms of player stature, but obviously a different sport and also a pretty unique circumstance (he had been out with injury for two years by the time he left, and had been replaced by one of the best ever anyways). It’d be akin to if Pete Myers had turned out to be one of the best ever and Jordan had come back in 1995 to a different team. A lot less strange a decision.

But yes, Jordan did choose narrative over basketball. He was still probably the league’s best player in his final year (won the MVP and the title), so I think it’s pretty clear he could’ve put in more years as an elite player. And he chose not to, because there was nothing to prove, he was already the near-unanimous GOAT, and he had a fairy-tale ending and it wasn’t going to be a fairy-tale ending if he just kept going until he wasn’t winning anymore (and the upheaval in the team made there be a real risk of that happening quickly). Of course, the fairy-tale ending was eventually somewhat marred by the Wizards years much later, but that’s a separate decision years later. I’m not sure I’d put 1993 in the same bucket—there was a lot more going on there than just skepticism/worry about not being able to do it again (and there was definitely less reason to have such worry, given that he was in the middle of his prime and so was most of his team). I do think the post-1998 retirement decision really mostly just comes down to “I’m already the near-unanimous GOAT, so why would I bother staying around for a rebuild rather than going out on top having had a fairy-tale ending?” And I think that that decision might not have been made if Jordan came after LeBron chronologically, just as I think there’s a good chance LeBron would already be retired if he’d come before Jordan chronologically.

No one is expecting him to stick around in 99 on those Bulls without Phil or Pippen. You aren't really getting what I said about 93 either. Grant and Pippen had already had a mini revolt in 93. MJ was burnt out along with w/e else you want to tack on. Put all of that together and I think he just decided he'd had enough. I do think he was way more mindful of his public image(which carries directly over to his marketing image) than some if not a lot of posters here seem to realize though. MJ was and still is a very shrewd business man and understood how it could be tarnished by him having a less successful season while knowing he was still young enough that he could come back later if he so desired.

[Heej]

I've seen the mods be significantly more heavy-handed on the regulars in this thread than the trolls that come in here lol. Maybe it's accrued resentment but there seems to be more of a target on the usual LeBron fans backs than there is on the usual LeBron trolls.

To add to what trex posted, there are a bunch of banned 'anti-LeBron' posters who think the PC board mod team banned them unfairly. I am not naming any names, but there are so many threads on GB where you can read a banned poster say, "Oh, I got banned by the biased PC board mods".

On the other hand, you have a bunch of pro-LeBron guys who think we are too light on the other side and they are the ones unfair targeted. Maybe, just maybe, we are actually not biased against one side or the other and action reports as we get them or as we see fit when we just browse on our own. Edit: We have even received insulting messages from some of the 'pro-LeBron' guys because they got banned by us.

Like Trex, I don't visit this thread often, although I probably do browse more than he does. But even then, 5 years ago, I'd be reading this thread daily, now it might be once a week.

Bottomline - I will say what the mod team always says. Report problematic posts and don't try to insult other posters or "get them back". Lose-lose-lose situation for everyone involved including the mod team.

I respect it. We see very little in terms of what goes on behind the scenes. You guys do a better job than the majority of forum and discord mods anyway so I can't complain too much tbh.