The LeBron James- 23-24 NBA Playoffs & Off-Season Thread -(NO PERSONAL ATTACKS & BAITING)

[K9J]

Anyone that doesn't think that LeBron is, at minimum, in the GOAT argument should just be ignored at this point. If someone is willing to overlook the mountain of evidence and toss out all logic to argue he isn't - there's absolutely no use in having a discussion/argument with them. Their mind was made up long ago and nothing will change it.

At 39 years old, 21 years end - he's still performed like a top 5 player. Every single game against the Nuggets, likely the best team in the league, was competitive despite the Lakers being a poorly coached and poorly assembled team. Just imagine the Lakers with prime LeBron. The Nuggets would be lucky to take more than 1 game off them. It's sad that some people can't just appreciate what they're seeing.

lebron of 2018 or earlier would have destroyed denver 100%, +35-40 ppp with +55%fg and Aaron gordon mostly on the bench with fouls trouble..if he could drive each play and score 35ppp against team as warriors with multiple elite defenders as iguodala-green + rotating swaps klay - durant, imagine how he destroy denver with only aaron gordon to stop him in the paint and lebron being too faster for gordon..

[DorianRo]

Anyone that doesn't think that LeBron is, at minimum, in the GOAT argument should just be ignored at this point. If someone is willing to overlook the mountain of evidence and toss out all logic to argue he isn't - there's absolutely no use in having a discussion/argument with them. Their mind was made up long ago and nothing will change it.

At 39 years old, 21 years end - he's still performed like a top 5 player. Every single game against the Nuggets, likely the best team in the league, was competitive despite the Lakers being a poorly coached and poorly assembled team. Just imagine the Lakers with prime LeBron. The Nuggets would be lucky to take more than 1 game off them. It's sad that some people can't just appreciate what they're seeing.

PEDs does wonders. Let’s be real. That’s why. I’ll give him his props for longevity. Even with whatever he’s doing is still impressive. However…. Far too many post season blunders to be anywhere near a GOAT argument. The league has catered to the dude for the 2 decades. He’s been a lame eastern conference with terrible teams the first 15 years or whatever, been on multiple super teams or at least played with other top superstar 95 percent his career and only has 4 titles to show for himself.

Nowhere near GOAT material. Give MJ all that and he has 12-13 titles. At this point I can’t put Lebron even over Kobe. He’s top 8-10 all time. But again…. Too many post season blunders. And even of the 4 titles, 2 of those he’s lucky he didn’t lose

[K9J]

Anyone that doesn't think that LeBron is, at minimum, in the GOAT argument should just be ignored at this point. If someone is willing to overlook the mountain of evidence and toss out all logic to argue he isn't - there's absolutely no use in having a discussion/argument with them. Their mind was made up long ago and nothing will change it.

At 39 years old, 21 years end - he's still performed like a top 5 player. Every single game against the Nuggets, likely the best team in the league, was competitive despite the Lakers being a poorly coached and poorly assembled team. Just imagine the Lakers with prime LeBron. The Nuggets would be lucky to take more than 1 game off them. It's sad that some people can't just appreciate what they're seeing.

PEDs does wonders. That’s why. I’ll give him his props for longevity. Even with whatever he’s doing is still impressive. However…. Far too many post season blunders to be anywhere near a GOAT argument. The league has catered to the dude for the 2 decades. He’s been a lame eastern conference with terrible teams the first 15 years or whatever, been on multiple super teams or at least played with other top superstar 95 percent his career and only has 4 titles to show for himself.

Nowhere near GOAT material. Give MJ all that and he has 12-13 titles. At this point I can’t put Lebron even over Kobe. He’s top 8-10 all time. But again…. Too many post season blunders

if eastern conference of lebron was terrible imagine how was in jordan 6 rings, the only 6 times that jordan won the eastern conference. when bulls swap jordan with kukoc and lost 4-3 vs the second best team in eastern conference in 90s and almost won the East without jordan.
Compare it with miami heat after 4 finals, swap lebron with 2x all star luol deng and didnt reach playoff in the terrible eastern conference hahahahaha logic not found( and dont try to say about bosh injury because before it the project record was worst..spoelstra + 3 all star players + dragic whiteside and granger dont reach playoff in the worst eastern conference.. same as bulls without the goat )

Then compare the weakest next generation ever in the nba when jordan won 6 rings with only 2 players top 50 nba history come to the league the next 8 years after jordan with <30 years old (shaq and payton) imagine how the weakest ever nba era was than stockton and malone won the west only two times with 33 and 34 years old...because no one historic elite player come to the league and play in his prime those years (shaq with a poor team)

and compare it with lebron + 30 years who should face to get a ring top 50 players of nba history from different generations in their prime youngers than him.. curry, durant, kawhi, harden, embiid, jokic, anteto, doncic, and all with better support cast than 3 best player hornacek,dale davis, mashburn, schrempf or dennis scott----- westbrook, paul george, murray, lillard, irving,middleton, butler, klay, green, booker, beal,etc etc

[MartinToVaught]

If only LeBron had to go through the grueling gauntlet of teams led by Mark Price, Rod Strickland, Mookie Blaylock, etc. just to match up with notorious playoff juggernauts like George Karl and Karl Malone in the Finals.

[CKRT]

Anyone that doesn't think that LeBron is, at minimum, in the GOAT argument should just be ignored at this point. If someone is willing to overlook the mountain of evidence and toss out all logic to argue he isn't - there's absolutely no use in having a discussion/argument with them. Their mind was made up long ago and nothing will change it.

At 39 years old, 21 years end - he's still performed like a top 5 player. Every single game against the Nuggets, likely the best team in the league, was competitive despite the Lakers being a poorly coached and poorly assembled team. Just imagine the Lakers with prime LeBron. The Nuggets would be lucky to take more than 1 game off them. It's sad that some people can't just appreciate what they're seeing.

PEDs does wonders. Let’s be real. That’s why. I’ll give him his props for longevity. Even with whatever he’s doing is still impressive. However…. Far too many post season blunders to be anywhere near a GOAT argument. The league has catered to the dude for the 2 decades. He’s been a lame eastern conference with terrible teams the first 15 years or whatever, been on multiple super teams or at least played with other top superstar 95 percent his career and only has 4 titles to show for himself.

Nowhere near GOAT material. Give MJ all that and he has 12-13 titles. At this point I can’t put Lebron even over Kobe. He’s top 8-10 all time. But again…. Too many post season blunders. And even of the 4 titles, 2 of those he’s lucky he didn’t lose

This is maybe the dumbest thing I have had the misfortune of reading on this board and I watched lilojmayo in his prime.

[Ian Scuffling]

Anyone that doesn't think that LeBron is, at minimum, in the GOAT argument should just be ignored at this point. If someone is willing to overlook the mountain of evidence and toss out all logic to argue he isn't - there's absolutely no use in having a discussion/argument with them. Their mind was made up long ago and nothing will change it.

At 39 years old, 21 years end - he's still performed like a top 5 player. Every single game against the Nuggets, likely the best team in the league, was competitive despite the Lakers being a poorly coached and poorly assembled team. Just imagine the Lakers with prime LeBron. The Nuggets would be lucky to take more than 1 game off them. It's sad that some people can't just appreciate what they're seeing.

PEDs does wonders. That’s why. I’ll give him his props for longevity. Even with whatever he’s doing is still impressive. However…. Far too many post season blunders to be anywhere near a GOAT argument. The league has catered to the dude for the 2 decades. He’s been a lame eastern conference with terrible teams the first 15 years or whatever, been on multiple super teams or at least played with other top superstar 95 percent his career and only has 4 titles to show for himself.

Nowhere near GOAT material. Give MJ all that and he has 12-13 titles. At this point I can’t put Lebron even over Kobe. He’s top 8-10 all time. But again…. Too many post season blunders

if eastern conference of lebron was terrible imagine how was in jordan 6 rings, the only 6 times that jordan won the eastern conference. when bulls swap jordan with kukoc and lost 4-3 vs the second best team in eastern conference in 90s and almost won the East without jordan.
Compare it with miami heat after 4 finals, swap lebron with 2x all star luol deng and didnt reach playoff in the terrible eastern conference hahahahaha logic not found( and dont try to say about bosh injury because before it the project record was worst..spoelstra + 3 all star players + dragic whiteside and granger dont reach playoff in the worst eastern conference.. same as bulls without the goat )

Then compare the weakest next generation ever in the nba when jordan won 6 rings with only 2 players top 50 nba history come to the league the next 8 years after jordan with <30 years old (shaq and payton) imagine how the weakest ever nba era was than stockton and malone won the west only two times with 33 and 34 years old...because no one historic elite player come to the league and play in his prime those years (shaq with a poor team)

and compare it with lebron + 30 years who should face to get a ring top 50 players of nba history from different generations in their prime youngers than him.. curry, durant, kawhi, harden, embiid, jokic, anteto, doncic, and all with better support cast than 3 best player hornacek,dale davis, mashburn, schrempf or dennis scott----- westbrook, paul george, murray, lillard, irving,middleton, butler, klay, green, booker, beal,etc etc

That guy is being dumb for the sake of being dumb. Don't mind him, because nothing you say will penetrate his emotions. The problem for idiots such as dorian is that as time goes by, it will only get worse. The legend of Lebron will grow and and this fool will just sit there and cry and pout about it, stomping his feet as a petulant child would do. They have nothing, but their feelings, to back their ridiculous assertions. They are, in a word, impotent. Another for the ignore pile.

[MartinToVaught]

The funniest part about the "weak East" narrative is that when the East was actually good, MJ was getting swept out of the first round. When Stern legislated the Bad Boy Pistons out of the game and watered the league down with expansion, that's when the real winning started for Jordan. But yeah, it's LeBron who the league is catering to.

I also notice how the quality of competition argument only seems to work one way. Nobody ever compares Jordan's path to what Kareem had to go through to get to the Finals. Kareem had to go through the likes of Wilt, Thurmond, Sikma, Gervin, Drexler just to play for his rings. Not a bunch of Strickland and Blaylock led teams with an occasional tough series against pre-prime Shaq. By the time the West actually got easy, Kareem was about to retire. There's always a convenient blind spot to anyone who played before Jordan.

[DorianRo]

Anyone that doesn't think that LeBron is, at minimum, in the GOAT argument should just be ignored at this point. If someone is willing to overlook the mountain of evidence and toss out all logic to argue he isn't - there's absolutely no use in having a discussion/argument with them. Their mind was made up long ago and nothing will change it.

At 39 years old, 21 years end - he's still performed like a top 5 player. Every single game against the Nuggets, likely the best team in the league, was competitive despite the Lakers being a poorly coached and poorly assembled team. Just imagine the Lakers with prime LeBron. The Nuggets would be lucky to take more than 1 game off them. It's sad that some people can't just appreciate what they're seeing.

PEDs does wonders. That’s why. I’ll give him his props for longevity. Even with whatever he’s doing is still impressive. However…. Far too many post season blunders to be anywhere near a GOAT argument. The league has catered to the dude for the 2 decades. He’s been a lame eastern conference with terrible teams the first 15 years or whatever, been on multiple super teams or at least played with other top superstar 95 percent his career and only has 4 titles to show for himself.

Nowhere near GOAT material. Give MJ all that and he has 12-13 titles. At this point I can’t put Lebron even over Kobe. He’s top 8-10 all time. But again…. Too many post season blunders

if eastern conference of lebron was terrible imagine how was in jordan 6 rings, the only 6 times that jordan won the eastern conference. when bulls swap jordan with kukoc and lost 4-3 vs the second best team in eastern conference in 90s and almost won the East without jordan.
Compare it with miami heat after 4 finals, swap lebron with 2x all star luol deng and didnt reach playoff in the terrible eastern conference hahahahaha logic not found( and dont try to say about bosh injury because before it the project record was worst..spoelstra + 3 all star players + dragic whiteside and granger dont reach playoff in the worst eastern conference.. same as bulls without the goat )

Then compare the weakest next generation ever in the nba when jordan won 6 rings with only 2 players top 50 nba history come to the league the next 8 years after jordan with <30 years old (shaq and payton) imagine how the weakest ever nba era was than stockton and malone won the west only two times with 33 and 34 years old...because no one historic elite player come to the league and play in his prime those years (shaq with a poor team)

and compare it with lebron + 30 years who should face to get a ring top 50 players of nba history from different generations in their prime youngers than him.. curry, durant, kawhi, harden, embiid, jokic, anteto, doncic, and all with better support cast than 3 best player hornacek,dale davis, mashburn, schrempf or dennis scott----- westbrook, paul george, murray, lillard, irving,middleton, butler, klay, green, booker, beal,etc etc

The eastern conference was the STRONG conference during MJs time. Teams that Lebron would have major difficulty getting through. Since the 2000’s the WC has had far away the stronger conference

Anyways 21 seasons and 4 titles (lucky not to have just 2 titles) doesn’t qualify is GOAT candidacy. It’s insane to say otherwise Especially with a LOSING finals record

[DorianRo]

If only LeBron had to go through the grueling gauntlet of teams led by Mark Price, Rod Strickland, Mookie Blaylock, etc. just to match up with notorious playoff juggernauts like George Karl and Karl Malone in the Finals.

Yea I’m sure MJ struggle with that juggernaut LeEastern Conference garbage from 05-2020 LOL. Jeesh who was the best team Lebron played? The pistons or injured thibs bulls? LOL

The bad boys, Celtics, lates 90’s magic, sonics, 90’s knicks was a actually a host of good teams


The only rock solid team Lebron played were in the finals (and it’s not like Lebron didn’t have a super team around him to back him up). Outside of 07 Lebron has had plenty of help to win ships

[Slava]

I think Lebron opts in and there’s one good run left in this duo. There’s assets to move this summer and salaries to aggregate, it requires a bit of deftness and some luck to find a third dude that can carry you to a top half seeding in the conference but if they can find that player, I think the next season can be a good one. The only name I can come with right now is Trae Young but maybe few more names shake loose as the playoffs unfold.

[Cavsfansince84]

The funniest part about the "weak East" narrative is that when the East was actually good, MJ was getting swept out of the first round. When Stern legislated the Bad Boy Pistons out of the game and watered the league down with expansion, that's when the real winning started for Jordan. But yeah, it's LeBron who the league is catering to.

I also notice how the quality of competition argument only seems to work one way. Nobody ever compares Jordan's path to what Kareem had to go through to get to the Finals. Kareem had to go through the likes of Wilt, Thurmond, Sikma, Gervin, Drexler just to play for his rings. Not a bunch of Strickland and Blaylock led teams with an occasional tough series against pre-prime Shaq. By the time the West actually got easy, Kareem was about to retire. There's always a convenient blind spot to anyone who played before Jordan.

Overall I agree though with Kareem I think he had it tough in the 70's but then easy in the 80's. When he retired the west was actually becoming much more deep with younger 54+ win type teams.

[thebigbird]

LeBron needs to go back to Cleveland. Fans who will actually embrace him, some good young talent, and, most importantly, no more 10:30 p.m. start times. He had his fun in LA, but time for him to come home.

[MartinToVaught]

Overall I agree though with Kareem I think he had it tough in the 70's but then easy in the 80's. When he retired the west was actually becoming much more deep with younger 54+ win type teams.

I'm mostly thinking of the late '80s when the rest of the conference was so destroyed by injuries/drug suspensions that the Lakers started getting historically weak playoff paths. Like, under .500 teams in the WCF. But again, Kareem's career was winding down at that point. The easier paths in his twilight years are easier to overlook because he had already proven he could win rings against the toughest competition earlier in his career. When things were that hard for Jordan, he had a conference finals ceiling and took four years to even win a playoff series.

[Ian Scuffling]

I think Lebron opts in and there’s one good run left in this duo. There’s assets to move this summer and salaries to aggregate, it requires a bit of deftness and some luck to find a third dude that can carry you to a top half seeding in the conference but if they can find that player, I think the next season can be a good one. The only name I can come with right now is Trae Young but maybe few more names shake loose as the playoffs unfold.

Does anyone trust Pelinka to do this, though? Or for Jeannie to want to? I don't know, but I hope you're right.

[Ian Scuffling]

LeBron needs to go back to Cleveland. Fans who will actually embrace him, some good young talent, and, most importantly, no more 10:30 p.m. start times. He had his fun in LA, but time for him to come home.

As a Cavaliers fan,I'll co-sign this

[Slava]

I think Lebron opts in and there’s one good run left in this duo. There’s assets to move this summer and salaries to aggregate, it requires a bit of deftness and some luck to find a third dude that can carry you to a top half seeding in the conference but if they can find that player, I think the next season can be a good one. The only name I can come with right now is Trae Young but maybe few more names shake loose as the playoffs unfold.

Does anyone trust Pelinka to do this, though? Or for Jeannie to want to? I don't know, but I hope you're right.

I hope he’s learned to use the MLE better and he’s got a mid first to play with alongside another couple 1sts. I definitely think Trae Young can be that dude. He’s a defensive sieve but offensively, he raises the ceiling of this team to a ridiculous level.

[lessthanjake]

The funniest part about the "weak East" narrative is that when the East was actually good, MJ was getting swept out of the first round. When Stern legislated the Bad Boy Pistons out of the game and watered the league down with expansion, that's when the real winning started for Jordan. But yeah, it's LeBron who the league is catering to.

In his career, Jordan beat 15 teams that had +1000 or better pre-playoff title odds, while LeBron beat 9 such teams. If we use pre-playoff title odds and add up the implicit pre-playoff expected title chances of every single team LeBron beat in the playoffs and every team Jordan beat in the playoffs (so, for instance, beating a team with +300 pre-playoff title odds would add 0.25 to the cumulative total), Jordan’s defeated opponents had a cumulative pre-playoff expected titles of 2.86, compared to 2.62 for LeBron’s defeated opponents (despite LeBron having won 41 series to 30 for Jordan). And if we just did this analysis for teams before the Finals (i.e. to test out the relative weakness of their conference opponents specifically), we still have Jordan having defeated teams with a higher cumulative pre-playoff expected titles than LeBron—despite LeBron having won over 50% more non-Finals series than Jordan. The average pre-playoff expected title chances for LeBron’s defeated non-Finals opponents was 4.48%, while it was 6.93% for Jordan’s defeated non-Finals opponents (and with Finals in there, it’s 6.40% for LeBron’s opponents, and 9.55% for Jordan’s opponents). So yeah, even if you just look at the teams that each guy actually beat, Jordan’s conference opponents were stronger.

I also notice how the quality of competition argument only seems to work one way. Nobody ever compares Jordan's path to what Kareem had to go through to get to the Finals. Kareem had to go through the likes of Wilt, Thurmond, Sikma, Gervin, Drexler just to play for his rings. Not a bunch of Strickland and Blaylock led teams with an occasional tough series against pre-prime Shaq. By the time the West actually got easy, Kareem was about to retire. There's always a convenient blind spot to anyone who played before Jordan.

I’m not sure what your point is here regarding Kareem. The reason nobody compares Jordan’s paths to Kareem’s paths is that Kareem did not have particularly difficult paths.

You mention Thurmond and Wilt, but in Kareem’s 1971 title you’re missing that the team they played in the Finals was a 42-win, 0.91 SRS team. You’ve also missed that, in the run to the Finals, the Nate Thurmond team he beat that year was a 41-win, negative SRS team, and that that Wilt Lakers team the 1971 Bucks beat in the conference finals was a 48-win team that was missing Jerry West in the playoffs (and he’d been there the vast majority of the season and they’d still only won 48 games). People don’t talk about the difficulty of that title run because it was surely one of the least difficult in history! Of course, the 1971 Bucks were so good that there’s a very good chance they win even with a harder run, but then again they were similarly good the next year and lost in 6 when they faced a great team. And then in 1973 the Bucks won 60 games and lost in the first round to a 47-win team. They made the Finals in 1974, but beating the Goodrich-led Lakers and Norm-Van-Lier-led Bulls wasn’t exactly a difficult run (though the Bulls were at least a solid team) and then they lost in the Finals. Then we go to the Lakers. Before Magic showed up, Kareem’s Lakers didn’t do much in the playoffs, so there’s no Finals runs to talk about there. And, in the 1980s, the Western Conference was notoriously weak. So like, what super difficult paths are you talking about for Kareem? The most difficult conference opponent he ever beat in a Finals run is probably the 1980 Sonics. They were defending champs and were a good team, but weren’t exactly brimming with historic talent. Or maybe the 1989 Suns were the best one, but Kareem was a 41-year-old role player at that point. Kareem’s runs to the Finals generally benefited from a weak conference (as well as the NBA just being in a really weird place in Kareem’s early years, due to the ABA).

[Colbinii]

Find a rather useless statistic which fits your narrative, grip that useless statistic like you're 16 and just found out what 4Chan was, and keep using that useless statistic as you beat that empty drum.

[rk2023]

Idk about yall, but I do NOT want Trae or Murray in LA next year. Neither nor. Isn’t the same organization killer as trading for Westbrook, but it’s not gonna end well either way.

[VanWest82]

Ah makes sense. He should still have his daughter's basketball games to go to though

I think you guys have more invested in hating me than whatever issues I have with Bron. Hope your lives have meaning.

You literally called yourself a hater a few minutes ago, it oozes in most of your posts, and we’re the haters LOL?

Yup. At least I admit what I am, and I'm not afraid to give Lebron credit either which I did in multiple posts right beside this one that you decided not to quote or AND1. Hardly a surprise.

More to the point...Lebron is a public figure. It's just sports hate, something most fans indulge in. I don't know him or hate him for real. You guys OTOH go out of your way to insult me, bring my kids into it, report my posts, try to get me warned and suspended (congrats, btw), etc. Me pointing out FT differential is apparently baiting but bringing my kids into an adversarial discussion (in any context) is just fine. Maybe Clyde can explain that one to me.

You guys only engage to make things personal. I've contributed lots to this site beyond whatever perceived "oozing" of hate toward any one player. There is zero interaction from you guys on any other front. The goal seems only to be pettiness, and unlike that with a public figure, you're doing it in a one-sided way with me directly - you'll notice I don't quote/bait you guys ever. So yeah, I meant what I said. I hope you actually have something worthwhile in your lives because based on what I've experienced, you seem to have nothing better to do but engage in small-minded, hate campaigns directly with someone who'd otherwise just rather talk basketball (and maybe trade some barbs about our favourite athletes). Good day.